An insult to JT and GT

[Skeptic]

Good idea, if only just for fun. I wouldn't count rocket tosses, because they have a low probability of being fumbled (they are basically a handoff). I'm not sure about designed pitches (like freeze option) because they do require skill to execute, but again, they're like handoffs. I would only count option read pitches. This would be fun!

You know, the better discussion, if one could ever engage those voting on such elevated honors as Heisman trophies, et al, is ask for an honest opinion from those supposed to be knowledgeable in those things, at least knowledgeable enough to vote: what do you think is more difficult, and the truer football play: a spread passing game, flooding one side of the field and dinking it 12 yards at a time for 30 completions and big stats, thrown from behind a wall of 300 pound offensive lineman, or pitching the option while running at full speed under duress without any protection and actually asking linebackers and defensive ends to level you, yet still making the right decision? Who is the better football player? They should take all the time they need to answer.

 

[CobbTech]

Man, people are getting all worked up over nothing. This guy is not disrespecting GT or JT. He knows what wins a heisman trophy these days.

Looking at recent history, it's going to take about 4,000-4,500 yards of total offense and 30-40 TD's. Do you really think JT will produce those numbers in our offense? That's not a knock on JT or the system. That's just how it works. JT is distributing the ball, making reads etc. Things that extremely important for our system that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. JT had 26 total TD's last season and only 8 rushing TD's. Nesbitt and TW used to get close to 20+ rushing TD's because they would get those carries near the goal line. JT isn't getting those. It's either BB or Byerly. He has to put up great numbers on top of our team being really good. That's reality.

Bash the system. It's flawed. Don't bash this guy. He's right.

 

[GTech63]

I guess only QBs are now allowed to win the Heisman. The past RB and other non-QB Heisman winners didn't have good passing stats, but I didn't check.

Point is that it is the total body of work. For JT it will be passing, rushing and total team performance. Who cares what this yahoo says? ESPN is ...... oh well I'm not going to waste my time.

Just what what I was thinking. Couldn't say it better.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Good idea, if only just for fun. I wouldn't count rocket tosses, because they have a low probability of being fumbled (they are basically a handoff). I'm not sure about designed pitches (like freeze option) because they do require skill to execute, but again, they're like handoffs. I would only count option read pitches. This would be fun!

I've seen more than one rocket toss go very badly. If the Aback isn't in the right spot at the right time...............

 

[Enuratique]

Good idea, if only just for fun. I wouldn't count rocket tosses, because they have a low probability of being fumbled (they are basically a handoff). I'm not sure about designed pitches (like freeze option) because they do require skill to execute, but again, they're like handoffs. I would only count option read pitches. This would be fun!

I thought about that, but that's why I would try to categorize them so you can filter out datapoints to suit your narrative... I don't see rocket tosses as any different than a screen really, and those count as passes for traditional QBs.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Sorry to break it to you but he's right. This is far from the Eric Crouch days. QB's are putting up 3,000 plus yards passing and still running for a stack.
We have a system. The system works when ran properly. The QB may stir the but that doesn't equate to great stats. If the tosses to AB were to count then he could get those stats, but they don't.

I don't disagree. It is a huge step forward for the program just to have snippets like this out in the media. It is the offseason. It's a conversation that focuses interest on a small subset of players. I am thankful Justin is in that group. Is it impossible for him to win? No, but almost impossible. But I can envision a scenario in which he gets an invite to New York. That would be legendary.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

I agree he needs more rushing TDs. The two biggest problems with that are people called Tim Byerly and Patrick Skov.

To be in the same neighborhood as those winners, he'd have to maintain his 1,000 rushing, and double his 1,700 passing this past season. That is asking a lot. We run so well against most opponents, it makes CPJ reluctant to pass. Why would we want to? Might be caught, but might be intercepted, dropped, tipped. Why throw for 25 yards when you have a high probability of getting that 25 yards by running four yards at a pop six times? It's counter to our well documented nature.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

On the NFL front it would honestly take an Expansion team to be founded with the offensive mentality. No established NFL fan base will allow it to happen but for a team with no established fan base.... Still would take balls of steel.


Look at RG3 trying to run the ball himself all the time and constantly getting injured.

 

[AE 87]

Man, people are getting all worked up over nothing. This guy is not disrespecting GT or JT. He knows what wins a heisman trophy these days.

Looking at recent history, it's going to take about 4,000-4,500 yards of total offense and 30-40 TD's. Do you really think JT will produce those numbers in our offense? That's not a knock on JT or the system. That's just how it works. JT is distributing the ball, making reads etc. Things that extremely important for our system that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. JT had 26 total TD's last season and only 8 rushing TD's. Nesbitt and TW used to get close to 20+ rushing TD's because they would get those carries near the goal line. JT isn't getting those. It's either BB or Byerly. He has to put up great numbers on top of our team being really good. That's reality.

Bash the system. It's flawed. Don't bash this guy. He's right.

There were a lot of QB's statistically better than Manzeil in 2012. Johnny, and others, were statistically better than Jaimes in 2013. Brandon Daugherty was statistically better than Marriota in 2014. Cam Newton in 2010? Tebow in 2007? Please...

So, I disagree that looking at stats is the way to evaluate selections and thus the system.

What they all have in common is that they were difference makers on very good teams. They were consistently good and made clutch plays in significant wins.

I know that for some of you, 2001 is prehistory, but 14 years really isn't that long ago. Nebraska started 11-0, and Crouch was being talked about by everyone. The last option qb of a successful team won it

I see no reason to think the same thing wouldn't happen with JT at GT. The stats just reflect the style and success of the offense. If we get to 11-0, I suspect he'll be a 1000/2000 qb or close anyway.

I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if you show me the statistical formula that got us our recent winners.

 

[forensicbuzz]

JT has what it takes. He doesn't have to have out-of-this-world stats, but he does have to have highlight reel highlights. He has to show out with his razzle-dazzle. Plays like the touchdown against MSU in the Orange bowl will put him in front of everyone. If other teams don't scheme to take him out of the game (i.e. make the untested A-Backs, B-Backs and WR's beat them), then he'll have a chance. My thought, and maybe this is a separate thread, is knowing JT is the only returning piece, will opposing defenses look to shut him down and make the less experienced pieces beat them?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Was that Davies? Now at New Mexico where he is winning some games, 4-5 the last couple of years, but a lot better than three wins in the previous three or four years before they hired him. He is running the option out of a pistol, still too chicken to go all the way.

It was Lou Holtz. Thought if he could run the triple option he would practically go undefeated at Notre Dame but was too afraid of the alumni and administration to risk not being more conventional.

 

[Skeptic]

It was Lou Holtz. Thought if he could run the triple option he would practically go undefeated at Notre Dame but was too afraid of the alumni and administration to risk not being more conventional.

Ah, Lou Holtz. The man was put on this earth to irritate football fans. Or most any human being.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Ah, Lou Holtz. The man was put on this earth to irritate football fans. Or most any human being.

The guy could coach football. On the other hand he had some kind of ethical blind spot at every place he ever coached -multiple violations, some major, and more than a few sanctions handed down by the NCAA. My theory is that he couldn't be bothered to do all the little detailed things, doting the I and crossing the T, that keep a program running ship shape. Just think how many more games CPJ would have won if he wasn't so scrupulous about the program.

 

[BBK]

Man, people are getting all worked up over nothing. This guy is not disrespecting GT or JT. He knows what wins a heisman trophy these days.

Looking at recent history, it's going to take about 4,000-4,500 yards of total offense and 30-40 TD's. Do you really think JT will produce those numbers in our offense? That's not a knock on JT or the system. That's just how it works. JT is distributing the ball, making reads etc. Things that extremely important for our system that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. JT had 26 total TD's last season and only 8 rushing TD's. Nesbitt and TW used to get close to 20+ rushing TD's because they would get those carries near the goal line. JT isn't getting those. It's either BB or Byerly. He has to put up great numbers on top of our team being really good. That's reality.

Bash the system. It's flawed. Don't bash this guy. He's right.

This. He is saying who he thinks is likely to win it, not who he thinks should.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Ah, Lou Holtz. The man was put on this earth to irritate football fans. Or most any human being.

Then the triple option would have been the perfect offense (offensh?) for him.

 

[Skeptic]

The guy could coach football. On the other hand he had some kind of ethical blind spot at every place he ever coached -multiple violations, some major, and more than a few sanctions handed down by the NCAA. My theory is that he couldn't be bothered to do all the little detailed things, doting the I and crossing the T, that keep a program running ship shape. Just think how many more games CPJ would have won if he wasn't so scrupulous about the program.

Stinger, you have to be a good man. I know this because you find a kind word even for Lou Holtz. I am more cynical. More likely he was just a cheat.

 

[Skeptic]

Then the triple option would have been the perfect offense (offensh?) for him.

Good point. In looking at Davie's time at New Mexico, a place that has a special place in my heart, in the best of ways, he is having to fight off the same experts as Johnson. Some reporters and fans apparently feel he is using the option until until he can compete otherwise, and he keeps saying he is committed to it. For those reasons alone -- who has time in their life for such distractions? -- I see why coaches might avoid option football.

 

[Techster]

Man, people are getting all worked up over nothing. This guy is not disrespecting GT or JT. He knows what wins a heisman trophy these days.

Looking at recent history, it's going to take about 4,000-4,500 yards of total offense and 30-40 TD's. Do you really think JT will produce those numbers in our offense? That's not a knock on JT or the system. That's just how it works. JT is distributing the ball, making reads etc. Things that extremely important for our system that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. JT had 26 total TD's last season and only 8 rushing TD's. Nesbitt and TW used to get close to 20+ rushing TD's because they would get those carries near the goal line. JT isn't getting those. It's either BB or Byerly. He has to put up great numbers on top of our team being really good. That's reality.

Bash the system. It's flawed. Don't bash this guy. He's right.

(Sshhh...GT fans need something to complain about during the offseason....)

 

[tech_wreck47]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/georgia-tech-football

There is a video for the dark horses to win the Heisman.

I have said it once and I'll say it again, I don't see it as him taking a hit at jt or gt. I personally see it as him trying to be realistic. I mean come on what are the chances of jt putting up the passing yards they want for the Heisman? Don't get me wrong jt is a great qb , but honestly the Heisman is all politics imo. It shouldn't be all about stats because it was originally started for the player that gives his team the best chance to win, which jt is that for gt. Now it's all about stats, and chances of us having 3 games or so where jt will only have around 125 all purpose yards or maybe a little more seems pretty high to me, if we are running the ball up the middle really well that's what coach is going to stick with in a game which will hurt jts stats (thsts what they want for a Heisman winner). I see him just saying gt qbs don't get the stats to be a Heisman winner and that's pretty accurate these days. I hope jt is in the talk when that time comes though.

 

[Skeptic]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/georgia-tech-football

There is a video for the dark horses to win the Heisman.

I have said it once and I'll say it again, I don't see it as him taking a hit at jt or gt. I personally see it as him trying to be realistic. I mean come on what are the chances of jt putting up the passing yards they want for the Heisman? Don't get me wrong jt is a great qb , but honestly the Heisman is all politics imo. It shouldn't be all about stats because it was originally started for the player that gives his team the best chance to win, which jt is that for gt. Now it's all about stats, and chances of us having 3 games or so where jt will only have around 125 all purpose yards or maybe a little more seems pretty high to me, if we are running the ball up the middle really well that's what coach is going to stick with in a game which will hurt jts stats (thsts what they want for a Heisman winner). I see him just saying gt qbs don't get the stats to be a Heisman winner and that's pretty accurate these days. I hope jt is in the talk when that time comes though.

Read a bunch of e.e. cummings, I gather?