An insult to JT and GT

[Skeptic]

Tim Tebow threw for more than 3200 yards with 32 Tds. He also ran for almost 900 yards and 23 Tds. That's over 4000 yards of offense and 55 Tds. I don't think this offense is set up for a QB to produce those type numbers.Urban Meyer is producing the same numbers with his QBs at Ohio State.

That, I believe, is the prime definition of a system QB. And pretty much condemns the SEC that a guy with Tebow's obvious limitations threw for more than 3,000 yards. And "limitations" is being kind.

 

[Skeptic]

How in the world did this thread morph from Thomas and the Heisman to Vad Lee transferring?

 

[Boomergump]

I just don't think voters will dice it down to stats like that. Big numbers will win out. Just look at JT Barrett last year. 2800 yds, 34 TDs and nearly 1000 yards rushing with 11 more TDs. Its safe to say that this years Ohio St QB, whoever it is is going to put up something similar. One thing that hurts Justin also is that he can play a nearly perfect game without having big numbers. Just look at the Miami game last year. 53 yards passing and 27 yards rushing. It looks awful on paper but he played great that game. Sometimes its hard to put up big numbers. It depends on what the other team is giving you. If he makes a correct read and pitches it to an A-Back for a 50 yard gain he wont get nearly the same credit a passing QB gets for hitting a short crossing route that goes for a 50 yard gain.

I think this is a good point. If we ask ourselves the question "what would we have liked him to do differently in the Miami game?", then the answer wouldn't be much of anything. What makes our offense so special is that any number of players can pile up the stats for a win, but it all starts with a threat at the QB position and good decision making. If RG3 or Johnny Football didn't put up huge numbers themselves, they probably would not be winning the game. Not so at GT. The day JT starts trying to put up stats for himself is the day our offense tanks. One of my favorite character traits of JT is that he follows the system unwaveringly, without any apparent selfish desires at all. He gutted Miami like a fish without personal stats AND he humiliated MSST with flames coming off his feet and long TD passes. All the while he was taking what was there from the defense.

If JT was right in the middle of the Heisman discussion in the ACCCG this year and he had another "Miami" game, taking himself out of contention in the process because of the lack of stats, I would be perfectly happy and I bet he would be too. We would, once again, be ACC champs. It is a team game and JT is a winner first.

 

[ATL1]

Exactly @Boomergump

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Maybe if pitch yards became a stat somehow it would help.

It doesn't have to be an "official" stat for it to help, just as long as someone keeps tabs on it. Our SID should do it and put together an info graphic that shows it's impact, along with all of JT's other stats. A pitch is no different than a swing pass yet the swing pass gets counted as a completion and passing yards. Actually, it's very different in the sense that if it's dropped, it's a live ball, therefore, it's execution is even more critical. It's also typically executed right in the face of the defense so it should be viewed as even more impressive. Odd that it isn't even noticed at all.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Somebody made a good point a few posts back about how our offense's unique nature could help JT if we are in the playoff hunt. The narrative for GT this year is, after all, that we lost all skill position production save for JT. Therefore, if we are rolling, he will look like the key to it all. And remember how sexy and vaunted our offense was looking in '09? When it's clicking, people start talking about it, and the attention gets drawn to the highlight plays (which can be a perfectly executed 3O play where JT makes someone look like a fool, but gets no personal stats out of it). I believe that winning will bring that attention again, just like it did during our final four game run this year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

LOL - have you been saving this for a year?

/

This comes to mind. And yes it is Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffer_fools_gladly

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Yes its an insult, but its more ignorance than anything. People said the system couldn't recruit... seems to me like its doing well. People said you couldn't win with the system...Orange bowl says Hello. People said you couldn't put WR's into the NFL, BOTH starting WR"s from last year say Hello.

This is just another "Can't" that is thrown at the system. I would say that if GT beats people handily, with the national games we have on our schedule. JT would most definitely been the discussion.

Reminds me of a certain former Notre Dame coach and current announcer who says he really wanted to run this offense at Notre Dame but was afraid of the reaction he would get from alumni. If Tech becomes "too successful" at this other schools may start running it and the landscape of football will once again shift.

 

[ATL1]

Well. thanks for "breaking it" to us. I guess we should just defer to your expertise in all things college football. Especially in light of last off-season when Vad's transfer was announced:

https://gtswarm.com/threads/addressing-the-vad-lee-situation.1510/

I don't blame him, CPJ basically neutered him of what he does best

How will this affect the locker room? ... Geez toxic ain't the word

I have 0 faith in JT

Next season is a tragedy

Honestly do you think he can sale [sic] a qb on coming here just running his base offense?
​

I have no problem with you expressing a different pov, but don't "break it to" us like you know better.

Please don't let me pick the BOOK of erroneous statements and silly BS that you type all over this board. It's also creepy as hell that you would nitpick my comments.
At least I Own my comments and readily admit to be wrong. I made a post eating my crow. When will you do the same.

 

[Skeptic]

And still there are the haters that say he can't win in the NFL. Blows my mind!

On the other hand, leave open the possibility that he can't win in the NFL. And since I never met the fellow I have no reason to even dislike him.

 

[Skeptic]

... One of my favorite character traits of JT is that he follows the system unwaveringly, without any apparent selfish desires at all. He gutted Miami like a fish without personal stats AND he humiliated MSST with flames coming off his feet and long TD passes. All the while he was taking what was there from the defense.

.

Odd that I just found the Miami game on YouTube and watched it yesterday. It was a thing of beauty, and had he not played the game he played, we would have lost.

 

[Enuratique]

I have previously said this, but I am committed to keeping tabs on all of JT's pitches this upcoming season... I'll do my best to track what type of pitch it was too, like option read, designed pitch, rocket toss, etc, for maximum analysis. I'll also be tweeting them at the end of every game... Probably will mention Smoov and GTAthletics and ESPN/ESPNACC in the tweets...

 

[Northeast Stinger]

On the other hand, leave open the possibility that he can't win in the NFL. And since I never met the fellow I have no reason to even dislike him.

Exactly.
The problem I have is this. There is an orthodoxy that develops in football. The way the current NFL is played, he probably can't win. But what if the NFL were to change?

College football is somewhat less doctrinaire and historically has been the experimentation and proving ground for every great new concept that football has ever developed. In some ways I find the college game to be more interesting. One of my fantasies would be to see an owner with deep pockets and steel fortitude decide to develop a triple option team in the NFL. He would have to go all in and he would have to put up with half his fans bolting for a while but the product on the field would be toxic poison for opposing teams to defend against. But it is just a fantasy.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I have previously said this, but I am committed to keeping tabs on all of JT's pitches this upcoming season... I'll do my best to track what type of pitch it was too, like option read, designed pitch, rocket toss, etc, for maximum analysis. I'll also be tweeting them at the end of every game... Probably will mention Smoov and GTAthletics and ESPN/ESPNACC in the tweets...

If you do this it will lend credibility to those discussions in which, after a given game, someone says JT passed for 156 yards, ran for 82 and was responsible for an additonal 109 yards which could be credited as a short passing game.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

I have previously said this, but I am committed to keeping tabs on all of JT's pitches this upcoming season... I'll do my best to track what type of pitch it was too, like option read, designed pitch, rocket toss, etc, for maximum analysis. I'll also be tweeting them at the end of every game... Probably will mention Smoov and GTAthletics and ESPN/ESPNACC in the tweets...

Good idea, if only just for fun. I wouldn't count rocket tosses, because they have a low probability of being fumbled (they are basically a handoff). I'm not sure about designed pitches (like freeze option) because they do require skill to execute, but again, they're like handoffs. I would only count option read pitches. This would be fun!

 

[Skeptic]

I have previously said this, but I am committed to keeping tabs on all of JT's pitches this upcoming season... I'll do my best to track what type of pitch it was too, like option read, designed pitch, rocket toss, etc, for maximum analysis. I'll also be tweeting them at the end of every game... Probably will mention Smoov and GTAthletics and ESPN/ESPNACC in the tweets...

That would be good. I saw several pitches this season that I thought, and on replay still thought, were forward to the Aback. As I understand it that is a pass. But really it makes no never mind. Thomas is world class no matter how his stats are measured.

 

[Skeptic]

Exactly.
The problem I have is this. There is an orthodoxy that develops in football. The way the current NFL is played, he probably can't win. But what if the NFL were to change?

College football is somewhat less doctrinaire and historically has been the experimentation and proving ground for every great new concept that football has ever developed. In some ways I find the college game to be more interesting. One of my fantasies would be to see an owner with deep pockets and steel fortitude decide to develop a triple option team in the NFL. He would have to go all in and he would have to put up with half his fans bolting for a while but the product on the field would be toxic poison for opposing teams to defend against. But it is just a fantasy.

Yes, it is. A fantasy, that is. But a man's reach and all that. NFL owners and coaches are so conservative they make the Koch brothers look like commie wimps. Nobody will ever, ever, take a chance. Look at the criticism Kelly at Philadelphia is getting, and in the scheme of things, his offense is kind of static. Just different.

 

[Declinometer]

On the other hand, leave open the possibility that he can't win in the NFL. And since I never met the fellow I have no reason to even dislike him.

Oh I have!

 

[AE 87]

Please don't let me pick the BOOK of erroneous statements and silly BS that you type all over this board. It's also creepy as hell that you would nitpick my comments.
At least I Own my comments and readily admit to be wrong. I made a post eating my crow. When will you do the same.

I gladly admit when I'm wrong, and offer reasons for saying what I say. If I disagree with someone's opinion, I say why, I don't assert and act like my opinion is correct just because I say so.

But @Bruce Wayne likes your post, and he accused me recently of faulty reasoning and worse but wasn't willing to start a thread to defend his accusations. So, you got that going for you.

 

[Skeptic]

Reminds me of a certain former Notre Dame coach and current announcer who says he really wanted to run this offense at Notre Dame but was afraid of the reaction he would get from alumni. If Tech becomes "too successful" at this other schools may start running it and the landscape of football will once again shift.

Was that Davies? Now at New Mexico where he is winning some games, 4-5 the last couple of years, but a lot better than three wins in the previous three or four years before they hired him. He is running the option out of a pistol, still too chicken to go all the way.