American Cultural Revolution

[A Love Supreme]

You already asked that. Reparations for former slaves would have been a good idea in the 1860s. But at this point it’s impossible to figure out who and how much. Hence the question people keep asking - so how would YOU do it?

No. He or MWBATL did not answer my question. And I already answered your question. Passing HR40 would be a start

 

[A Love Supreme]

How many generations removed are we from slavery? Personally, I don’t feel I owe a thing for what happened over a hundred years ago.

Would you ask that same question to a Jewish person?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

No. He or MWBATL did not answer my question. And I already answered your question. Passing HR40 would be a start

With all due respect, and I mean that, I don’t think you’re answering the question. HR40 “studies” the notion of paying reparations. We’re asking how would you do it? Maybe your answer is you like the idea, but you don’t know how? I think it’s a noble idea. But at this point I think it’s an impossibility for all the reasons above. If you disagree, I’d love to hear your ideas.

 

[A Love Supreme]

With all due respect, and I mean that, I don’t think you’re answering the question. HR40 “studies” the notion of paying reparations. We’re asking how would you do it? Maybe your answer is you like the idea, but you don’t know how? I think it’s a noble idea. But at this point I think it’s an impossibility for all the reasons above. If you disagree, I’d love to hear your ideas.

I don't have all the answers. I just know that there are a few instances of the government paying reparations to other specific groups of people. Most people, including me have no problem with that. But when it comes to reparations for African Americans, all of a sudden that's a problem, it's impossible, or it's "racist persecution" like MWBATL ridiculously said.
Obviously the descendants of American slaves would the recipients. Figuring out who are actually these descendants and how much to pay would be a tall task and something Congress would have to work out. Maybe passing HR40 could answer those question. But I'm not holding my breath. You are right, it would have been easier if the government had paid reparations to freed slaves in the 1860 but for whatever reason that didn't happen. Instead we got Jim Crow laws until the 1960s.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't have all the answers. I just know that there are a few instances of the government paying reparations to other specific groups of people. Most people, including me have no problem with that. But when it comes to reparations for African Americans, all of a sudden that's a problem, it's impossible, or it's "racist persecution" like MWBATL ridiculously said.
Obviously the descendants of American slaves would the recipients. Figuring out who are actually these descendants and how much to pay would be a tall task and something Congress would have to work out. Maybe passing HR40 could answer those question. But I'm not holding my breath. You are right, it would have been easier if the government had paid reparations to freed slaves in the 1860 but for whatever reason that didn't happen. Instead we got Jim Crow laws until the 1960s.

I know you know this too, but I'll answer a few rhetorical comments you posted.

"when it comes to reparations for African Americans, all of a sudden that's a problem" - yep, because we are an extremely racialized society, and white people in particular live in their ignorant cocoons about it. Although undoubtedly I think its an impossibility at this point. I wouldn't doubt that 50 million people are somewhere between 0% and 100% a descendent of a slave.

"it would have been easier if the government had paid reparations to freed slaves in the 1860 but for whatever reason that didn't happen" - it didn't happen because slavery was physically outlawed, but with few exceptions, the integration and acceptance of african americans into society took another 100+ years.

 

[A Love Supreme]

I know you know this too, but I'll answer a few rhetorical comments you posted.

"when it comes to reparations for African Americans, all of a sudden that's a problem" - yep, because we are an extremely racialized society, and white people in particular live in their ignorant cocoons about it. Although undoubtedly I think its an impossibility at this point. I wouldn't doubt that 50 million people are somewhere between 0% and 100% a descendent of a slave.

"it would have been easier if the government had paid reparations to freed slaves in the 1860 but for whatever reason that didn't happen" - it didn't happen because slavery was physically outlawed, but with few exceptions, the integration and acceptance of african americans into society took another 100+ years.

With all that being said, do you think politicians talking about reparations for African Americans and possibly coming up with proposals is a bad thing?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

With all that being said, do you think politicians talking about reparations for African Americans and possibly coming up with proposals is a bad thing?

Again, I’d love to hear some ideas. . I think its an impossibility after 150 years. I think it’s a great idea. I think they deserved it back then. And I don’t see any way it can work now. Ive never heard a single actual idea from anybody.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I know you know this too, but I'll answer a few rhetorical comments you posted.

"when it comes to reparations for African Americans, all of a sudden that's a problem" - yep, because we are an extremely racialized society, and white people in particular live in their ignorant cocoons about it. Although undoubtedly I think its an impossibility at this point. I wouldn't doubt that 50 million people are somewhere between 0% and 100% a descendent of a slave.

"it would have been easier if the government had paid reparations to freed slaves in the 1860 but for whatever reason that didn't happen" - it didn't happen because slavery was physically outlawed, but with few exceptions, the integration and acceptance of african americans into society took another 100+ years.

Can you explain the ignorant cocoons white people live in? Sporting a year round tan, it’s possible I’ve never found myself living in one. That being said in order of racial animus the most racist places I’ve lived have been in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, South Carolina, Illinois, Hawaii, California (SF & LA wickedly racist in higher income areas; SD was least racist of all places I ever lived), Japan, Georgia, Florida, DC, Texas, Tennessee, Virginia.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Can you explain the ignorant cocoons white people live in? Sporting a year round tan, it’s possible I’ve never found myself living in one. That being said in order of racial animus the most racist places I’ve lived have been in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, South Carolina, Illinois, Hawaii, California (SF & LA wickedly racist in higher income areas; SD was least racist of all places I ever lived), Japan, Georgia, Florida, DC, Texas, Tennessee, Virginia.

I said racialized, not racist. White and black people marry, live together, and mix significantly less than any other races. Those networks and lack thereof and experiences and lack thereof lead to massive ignorance of other people’s experiences.

 

[A Love Supreme]

Again, I’d love to hear some ideas. . I think its an impossibility after 150 years. I think it’s a great idea. I think they deserved it back then. And I don’t see any way it can work now. Ive never heard a single actual idea from anybody.

I would think in HR40 they would figure out how reparations would be paid. Thats the point. But also if you want some ideas you should look up professor William Darity.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I would think in HR40 they would figure out how reparations would be paid. Thats the point. But also if you want some ideas you should look up professor William Darity.

Paying reparations might be difficult but that doesn’t necessarily mean we shouldn’t do it. Not sure where you’d put the cutoff point & records back in those days weren't the best. Take me for example, I’d be eligible for somewhere between 1/32 and 1/64 of some slice of pie. If you gave $1M to every descendent then I might rake in $1500. What if you couldn’t find the other 63/64ths, would I get the whole pie myself? Do I split my pie with my son & daughter and they get a $250 reparations check and I get to keep $1k?

That being said, what good would we expect to come out of paying reparations? Would we expect a massive phase shift in racial relations if the government ponied up or would we be paying money just like every other worthless government program and get no results out of it?

 

[Milwaukee]

Paying reparations might be difficult but that doesn’t necessarily mean we shouldn’t do it. Not sure where you’d put the cutoff point & records back in those days weren't the best. Take me for example, I’d be eligible for somewhere between 1/32 and 1/64 of some slice of pie. If you gave $1M to every descendent then I might rake in $1500. What if you couldn’t find the other 63/64ths, would I get the whole pie myself? Do I split my pie with my son & daughter and they get a $250 reparations check and I get to keep $1k?

That being said, what good would we expect to come out of paying reparations? Would we expect a massive phase shift in racial relations if the government ponied up or would we be paying money just like every other worthless government program and get no results out of it?

Then the people receiving the check would complain about how it's not enough. They would even spin it as an insult if I had to guess. This is 2019, make your own way and stfu about someone owing you for something from over one hundred years ago. That's just my opinion.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Passing HR40 would be a start. Do you think it was worthwhile for the US government to give reparations to Japanese Americans, Holocaust survivors, and Native Americans?

I’d vote in favor of HR40. I’d also fall out in shock if they developed any decent proposals but I guess it’s possible.

There are no living survivors of slavery. Apples and oranges to the slavery issue. Would you support reparations for descendants of Irish Americans? Italian Americans? Each and every demographic that can lay some claim their “ancestors” were once oppressed or discriminated against. Seems a foolhardy notion for all of the above.

No nation is perfect. All screw certain things up. Should every nation pay their citizens reparations for every screw up?

I know it’s not fair to ask you these questions as you have displayed you have no ideas of your own. Just a feeling that some amount of payment to some is warranted.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

If one did wish to assign reparation payments to descendants of slaves what of the 500,000 Americans that gave their lives to end slavery? Do their descendants deserve payments as well. Only those drafted or also the volunteers.

Since slavery was dictated to the colonies by the British crown....should the UK now pay a portion of these reparations?

 

[LibertyTurns]

If one did wish to assign reparation payments to descendants of slaves what of the 500,000 Americans that gave their lives to end slavery? Do their descendants deserve payments as well. Only those drafted or also the volunteers.

Since slavery was dictated to the colonies by the British crown....should the UK now pay a portion of these reparations?

Some relevant historical factoids:
A. Germany agreed to pay reparations for WW1 in 1919, They paid some up to 1932 then stopped. In 1953 there was the London Agreement on German Debt which included pre-WWII debt plus that from Potsdam Conference. Germany’s interest debt came due in 1990 which they funded with bonds which they finally paid off in 2010.
B. At Yalta, USSR received support from Roosevelt and Churchill for forced labor (aka slavery) to pay for reparations. Russians had started capturing and forcing Germans into labor caps in 1944, the last left in 1953. A large number worked in Uranium mines.
C. Other countries used German forced labor to clear minefields, etc in France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. UK used forced labor for agriculture primarily. The US was the “wheel man” so to speak in the allocation of forced labor.
D. Other Axis countries got reparations at the Paris Peace Accord, combinations of money & territory being restored to those affected.
E. The US adopted the Marshall Plan and by 1952 the US had donated $17B on top of about another $17B. That was replaced by the Mutual Security Act where we ponied up another $7B per year in order to thwart the spread of communism.

There’s a lot of historical precedence for reparations, just not on an individual basis.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Some relevant historical factoids:
A. Germany agreed to pay reparations for WW1 in 1919, They paid some up to 1932 then stopped. In 1953 there was the London Agreement on German Debt which included pre-WWII debt plus that from Potsdam Conference. Germany’s interest debt came due in 1990 which they funded with bonds which they finally paid off in 2010.
B. At Yalta, USSR received support from Roosevelt and Churchill for forced labor (aka slavery) to pay for reparations. Russians had started capturing and forcing Germans into labor caps in 1944, the last left in 1953. A large number worked in Uranium mines.
C. Other countries used German forced labor to clear minefields, etc in France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. UK used forced labor for agriculture primarily. The US was the “wheel man” so to speak in the allocation of forced labor.
D. Other Axis countries got reparations at the Paris Peace Accord, combinations of money & territory being restored to those affected.
E. The US adopted the Marshall Plan and by 1952 the US had donated $17B on top of about another $17B. That was replaced by the Mutual Security Act where we ponied up another $7B per year in order to thwart the spread of communism.

There’s a lot of historical precedence for reparations, just not on an individual basis.

Our country remains extremely racialized - housing, school, marriages, churches. Not only would reparations be impossible (as I see it) to figure out, I don’t see how it would have any impact on the real underlying racial issues we face. If such a plan could actually improve our country’s situation in that regard, I think many more people would be for it. But if it’s unworkable and wouldn’t improve the remaining underlying issues we face, I just don’t see the point. Patronizing some people by giving them some money would appear like we were saying “here are a few crumbs, now move along and be happy” and then everything would stay the same way it is.

 

[MWBATL]

The simplest way to get past racism is to stop couching everything in racist terms. Start couching it only in human terms...the qualities or traits of the person or people involved...NOT the color of their skin.

However, that would be political death for a certain leftist political party in the USA, ergo it will never happen.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Our country remains extremely racialized - housing, school, marriages, churches. Not only would reparations be impossible (as I see it) to figure out, I don’t see how it would have any impact on the real underlying racial issues we face. If such a plan could actually improve our country’s situation in that regard, I think many more people would be for it. But if it’s unworkable and wouldn’t improve the remaining underlying issues we face, I just don’t see the point. Patronizing some people by giving them some money would appear like we were saying “here are a few crumbs, now move along and be happy” and then everything would stay the same way it is.

We’ve lost sight of the foundational elements that make our country and people great. Until we take dead aim at restoring them, we’ll continue to devolve, the rich will get richer, the poor poorer.

A. Re-establishment of law & order across the nation; at national, state & local level
B. Promotion of the health of family structure, most significantly at the local level
C. Protection of our Constitutional liberties by our Federal Government
D. Implementation of a coherent National Security Strategy

Our Founding Fathers developed an enduring framework for national supremacy. We’ve forgotten the core elements of that framework.

 

[MWBATL]

We’ve lost sight of the foundational elements that make our country and people great. Until we take dead aim at restoring them, we’ll continue to devolve, the rich will get richer, the poor poorer.

A. Re-establishment of law & order across the nation; at national, state & local level
B. Promotion of the health of family structure, most significantly at the local level
C. Protection of our Constitutional liberties by our Federal Government
D. Implementation of a coherent National Security Strategy

Our Founding Fathers developed an enduring framework for national supremacy. We’ve forgotten the core elements of that framework.

The left has not forgotten them. They openly challenge the wisdom of those policies and actively oppose them.

 

[grandpa jacket]

The simplest way to get past racism is to stop couching everything in racist terms. Start couching it only in human terms...the qualities or traits of the person or people involved...NOT the color of their skin.

However, that would be political death for a certain leftist political party in the USA, ergo it will never happen.

People arent born racist they are taught and raised to be.