LibertyTurns
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What’s worse a racist that openly discriminates against you or a person that claims not to be racist but they passively act and promote policies that perpetuates discrimination?
American Cultural Revolution
- Thread starter MWBATL
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Technut1990
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Reparations are impossible because it automatically creates another underprivileged class.
There would be people who never qualified for the money that most likely should get it and others who get it that shouldn’t.
How do you determine who was free and who was enslaved and at what point ? The perception of slavery was that ALL blacks were slaves when in fact blacks themselves owned slaves in a small area of Louisiana. Blacks were not born into slavery in the North after 1858 I think it was, so are those born free still candidates ? Does the house slave get less because they helped the master control the field slave ?
The only possible way to do it would be to simply write a check to every black person alive today. That tactic ignores 40 other factors. Were their families even in the country, do white Northern soldiers qualify for a tax exemption so their families aren’t paying with their lives and a reparation tax ? What about current tax paying whites whose families didn’t come to this country until the early 1900’s ? Whites who were to poor to afford slaves and lived in generational poverty ?
Reparations just turns the anger from one group to another. I grew up in poverty, my entire childhood was playing in mud puddles, living in a cinder block house, tiled with an asbestos floor, exactly like all of my black friends.
Only today, after 32 years of work, have I built something to pass down to my son. It would take 3 more generations for my family to have actual generational wealth.
I’m not opposed to the notion of reparations but I just don’t think it can be done fairly with equity. I don't think that only the victims of slavery would be the benefactors.
There would be people who never qualified for the money that most likely should get it and others who get it that shouldn’t.
How do you determine who was free and who was enslaved and at what point ? The perception of slavery was that ALL blacks were slaves when in fact blacks themselves owned slaves in a small area of Louisiana. Blacks were not born into slavery in the North after 1858 I think it was, so are those born free still candidates ? Does the house slave get less because they helped the master control the field slave ?
The only possible way to do it would be to simply write a check to every black person alive today. That tactic ignores 40 other factors. Were their families even in the country, do white Northern soldiers qualify for a tax exemption so their families aren’t paying with their lives and a reparation tax ? What about current tax paying whites whose families didn’t come to this country until the early 1900’s ? Whites who were to poor to afford slaves and lived in generational poverty ?
Reparations just turns the anger from one group to another. I grew up in poverty, my entire childhood was playing in mud puddles, living in a cinder block house, tiled with an asbestos floor, exactly like all of my black friends.
Only today, after 32 years of work, have I built something to pass down to my son. It would take 3 more generations for my family to have actual generational wealth.
I’m not opposed to the notion of reparations but I just don’t think it can be done fairly with equity. I don't think that only the victims of slavery would be the benefactors.
MWBATL
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I agree completely. The agrieved also learn this as well.
MWBATL
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The whole idea of protected classes has helped to fuel anger and resentment on both sides of the aisle. The people who feel they need protection are being reinforced that "society is against them" (when more often than not, it has little to do with their class, but "life ain't fair"). The folks NOT in the protected class see discrimination in favor of the protected class and are puzzled as to how anyone can think that discrimination can solve discrimination.
I am the world's biggest believer that everyone deserves a fair chance to succeed in life....our system does one of the worst jobs of any society out there in dealing with it....
I am the world's biggest believer that everyone deserves a fair chance to succeed in life....our system does one of the worst jobs of any society out there in dealing with it....
smathis30
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.... protected classes are things that literally everyone, all 300+ million Americans has by default. No one is excluded literally be definition.
Whiskey_Clear
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DNC presidential candidate field wouldn’t be able to debate even a comedian on this topic. There would be high comedy from it but all the laughs would actually be generated by the politicos.
Deleted member 2897
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Most of these politicians are complete idiots. They are so eager to figure out how to offer money and benefits to people for votes, that they don't ever even take time to think about the feasibility of it.
Furthermore, the medicare for all plan represents a DOUBLE of taxes paid by working and middle class people (11% absolute increase, which will approximately double the taxes they pay):
https://www.atr.org/list-tax-hikes-sanders-medicare-all-plan
There is no way to pay for all this stuff.
One of the more important topics, which the video touched on, but didn't dig into, is 2 parent households. African Americans have the highest rate of poverty of any racial group. Do you know what it is in 2 parent households? 5%. And thats the highest of any racial group. Have a 2 parent household and be an African American, and you have nearly a 20 to 1 odds of not being in poverty.
Working on programs that help spread that message and ensure equal opportunity of education would have a much higher impact on the income and wealth gap then writing someone 1/4th of a check because they are 1/4th African American.
grandpa jacket
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I believe you are missing the point, It is Medicare for all who choose to enroll. You can keep your sorry work coverage if you wish to do so
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Nope.
Have you been to websites of folks like Bernie Sanders? They state, verbatim I am quoting here: "We must defeat them": (health insurance companies). Medicare-for-all is not a public option program.
Not sure where you get this idea from.
My sorry work coverage is sorry because of the government. I have to pay for all kinds of things I don't need. It has to follow all kinds of stupid regulations I don't want. But on the bright side, its not bankrupting the country like Medicare is.
MWBATL
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"MediCare for All" can mean so many different things that it is a silly catch-phrase that merely excites the millennials and the uneducated masses.
Few Dems actually explain whether they mean to do away with all private insurance (some do) or supplement private insurance (others mean this) or do away with private health care entirely and go to a VA or NHS type system (a few mean this). What is common to them all is "more government help (or interference, whichever term you prefer)".
Few Dems actually explain whether they mean to do away with all private insurance (some do) or supplement private insurance (others mean this) or do away with private health care entirely and go to a VA or NHS type system (a few mean this). What is common to them all is "more government help (or interference, whichever term you prefer)".
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Ultimately, they all want to get rid of private insurance. Most of the politicians want this directly. A few I suppose (I don't know of any) only want a public option. But that too will kill private insurance. Medicare is the single worst run federal government program by far. It is BY FAR the single biggest contributor to our long term debt. Each person puts in about $100k into the program over their lifetime, but they get $300k out in benefits. So if you charge 1/3 of the actual cost, no private insurance will be able to compete with that. Private companies cannot print money.
The amount of tax increases on working class and middle class people in order to get that program to work is unbelievable. It would double most people's taxes.
Lotta Booze
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Without talking about the savings on healthcare premiums you're not presenting the whole picture. The 11% you're referencing is 4% on the employee side and 7% on the employer side. My premiums come out to almost 6% on my end and my employer matches. That comes out to 2% SAVINGS for me on healthcare costs and a 1% increase in cost for my employer. I'll take that.
Lotta Booze
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Medicare for America. Look it up
Deleted member 2897
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That's an additional tax increase on top of current payroll taxes. Its not a replacement.
There are also fees associated with using Medicare - these new taxes don't do away with those either.
But yea, that's the reason its bankrupting the country. We're only charging 1/3rd the actual cost. I guess hell - pilfer the country's treasury while we can right! Last one out, turn out the lights!
Deleted member 2897
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I've heard of that - very little support from what I have seen.
You can only keep your private coverage if it meets their 'gold' standards. ie, expensive plans...just to make sure Medicare can undercut the hell out of them.
Its a massive, ridiculously huge tax on states having to pitch in (on top of increased payroll and income taxes). You should read the actual document at House.gov. I have - the resulting increase in state income taxes would equate to a 20% increase in taxes to me. There's also a long list of other taxes in play.
But again, screw it all, right? - lets take all the money we can out of the treasury before it goes bankrupt. If it helps me, I'm all for it! Give me some free money baby!
Lotta Booze
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I understand that. The savings is on health insurance premiums. It would be a replacement for that cost and that's what I'm referencing. Ignoring that is not an honest argument.
There are also fees with our current system. There are also deductibles that need to be met. What's your point?
Lotta Booze
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Now you sound like a true Trump supporter
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My point was that Medicare is the single worst program in the entire federal government. I stated that above and I gave the exact numbers of how imbalanced it is, and how much of a tremendous financial drag it is on the financial health of the country. Even if you listen to people like Paul Krugman, a very progressive political economist, he will tell you the same thing. The vast majority of our long-term debt is driven by Medicare. Medicare consumers are only charged 1/3 of what the program actually costs. The total debt/unfunded liabilities of Medicare are over $30 Trillion. The fund itself (which is a bit of funny accounting) is supposed to be completely depleted in 6 years. That's when the poor bastard President is going to really start seeing some huge deficits. Like $3T/year. I'm still predicting Trump has aa $2T+ one.
So that’s my point – why would anybody be in favor of a program that single-handedly is bankrupting the country? It’s unpatriotic - “I’m gettin mine while the gettin’s good”.
The only way that program breaks even is if we approach the 60% tax rates of European countries, even on working class folks.
NO THANK YOU.
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Lotta Booze
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I was specifically addressing your comment on "11% increase on taxes". It's not a complete picture without discussing the savings on premiums. I'm not going to disagree on needing to balance the budget but we clearly think there are different ways to get there.
Now you're sounding like Trump himself!
Deleted member 2897
Guest
On the first part, yes I am not trying to sound condescending although I guess I probably do. Your goal (and others like you) of having everyone covered with health insurance is noble. I see it like slavery reparations - it’s a logistical and financial impossibility in the long term without the same onerous tax rates other countries have.
On sounding like Trump - I’ve never been so insulted!
