American Cultural Revolution

[grandpa jacket]

Grandpa, it looks like you won't have to worry about whether any women are taking their second looks at you if you get your wish: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...urgery-leaving-thousands-to-go-blind-n2544390

Guess what, if pre-existing conditions become no longer covered in the U.S. lots of folks wont get ANY healthcare from the eyes to the toes.

 

[LibertyTurns]

And there it is. The disdain for the poor. Those rich who are getting "milked", who do you think they made their money off of?

Seems to be part of the conservative marketing plan. Lower taxes=liberty&freedom. Poor people=lazy non producers

I don't buy it

First off, I want to congratulate @Lotta Juice who appears to me to be an honest Liberal trying to defend his positions. Too often Liberals devolve into your a racist, women hating, environment destroying take your pick adjective type dialogue because they do not even understand what they stand for. Bravo to you sir!

I do however think you completely misunderstand Conservatives. We have a deep respect and care immensely about those on the bottom. Our view of the world is just different. I want people to have opportunity. Taking their income passively and misusing it for personal gain as most Liberals advocate is reprehensible to a Conservative. I want YOU to enjoy the fruits of YOUR labor, to be given YOUR money that YOU earned to spend however YOU choose. Emphasis on the words YOU/YOUR. Not for GOVERNMENT to decide how much you should be given nor how much GOVERNMENT decides you should keep, nor how much GOVERNMENT deems you should spend or what you should spend it on.

It’s called Liberty and Freedom which is what has made this country great. No I don’t want anyone being forced to subsidize a rich kid’s college education at a publicly funded university, I don’t want anyone to be forced to help pay for Annabelle’s abortion even through indirect means, I don’t want anyone to have to assist compensating for someone’s reckless behavior or irresponsibility while you’re hard at work earning a living, etc. If you want to look at art, support your museum. If you like baseball, pay for the stadium don’t ask me to. Pay your own way. There’s charity for charitable cases and they need to stand on their own merits. The do-gooders can do good by giving up THEIR money to those causes if they choose.

I grew up in an area where when someone fell on hard times we donated clothes to them, neighbors sent meals down so the families wouldn’t starve, we paid for odd jobs at times, etc. Why does government have any part of how a community operates on a basic level? We didn’t need it where I grew up.

 

[MWBATL]

Gotta say I haven't seen anyone proposing limiting religious freedom or religious tolerance to Christians. Seems like fox news fear mongering

Perhaps some of it is fear mongering. I do try to do reading where possible and uncover as many facts as I can from all sites. But there are trends I find disturbing...

What I was specifically referring to here was the "Oregon bakery case" as well as a similar one in Colorado. Gay couple goes to on Oregon bakery and asks them to make them a wedding cake. According to everything I researched, the bakery owners were very polite, but refused on religious grounds...but offered to recommend and even contact other bakeries on their behalf. Apparently, the gay couple was initially OK with this, until some of their more activist friends heard about it and brought the bakery up for a civil rights violation. If I am not mistaken, the gay couple was quite hesitant to bring up as far as it went. But activists sought to make an example of it. This is obviously a case of intersecting rights in conflict, not a simple case of religious persecution, and as such is subject to differences of opinion. But the zeal with which the case was pursued was frightening to me, resulting in fines of $150,000 and putting the bakery out of business. Why? For following their own religious beliefs.

In a similar case in Colorado, the Supreme Court in a narrow decision over-ruled the Civil Rights Commission there and found them in violation of the defendants' religious liberty.
The Supreme Court of the United States has ended a five-year legal battle in the Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission case, ruling that the commission’s actions violated the Free Exercise Clause.

The court is not deciding the big issue in the case, whether a business can invoke religious objections to refuse service to gay and lesbian people.

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the opinion for the court, which voted 7-2 to reverse a lower court's ruling. Justices Ginsburg and Sotomayor dissented. The justices' limited ruling turned on what the court described as anti-religious bias on the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when it ruled against baker Jack Phillips.

So, there are such cases. I suspect the Oregon case will also wind up before the SCOTUS, and it will be interesting indeed to see how they rule.

Further, there was the recent controversy in Pennsylvania about the prayer made before a new representative to their State House was sworn in. The new representative is Muslim, and the prayer was Christian (and was a bit heavy handed)...but then later a Muslim prayer was offered and no one said a peep. Somehow, praying before an assembly (which is standard practice for that body) should not be politicized...yet apparently, it was a problem for the Dems because it was a Muslim about to be sworn in...

So, while I have not heard anyone proposing to overturn the Constitution, I have witnessed many grey areas which seem to be shading more and more into religious discrimination.

In a similar vein, the current movie about abortion (Unplanned, I believe it is named) could not get any major network to accept advertising for the movie. These types of things disturb me and if the networks refused a progressive cause in the same way I believe the outrage would be hysterical. (not funny, but very loud and very angry)

 

[MWBATL]

First off, I want to congratulate @Lotta Juice who appears to me to be an honest Liberal trying to defend his positions. Too often Liberals devolve into your a racist, women hating, environment destroying take your pick adjective type dialogue because they do not even understand what they stand for. Bravo to you sir!

I echo this and appreciate his points of view......

 

[Deleted member 2897]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/08/upshot/democratic-electorate-twitter-real-life.html

My guess is they’d see the same thing if they studied Republicans. Most Americans are not the shrill vile people you see on the internet and in the media.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

First off, I want to congratulate @Lotta Juice who appears to me to be an honest Liberal trying to defend his positions. Too often Liberals devolve into your a racist, women hating, environment destroying take your pick adjective type dialogue because they do not even understand what they stand for. Bravo to you sir!

I do however think you completely misunderstand Conservatives. We have a deep respect and care immensely about those on the bottom. Our view of the world is just different. I want people to have opportunity. Taking their income passively and misusing it for personal gain as most Liberals advocate is reprehensible to a Conservative. I want YOU to enjoy the fruits of YOUR labor, to be given YOUR money that YOU earned to spend however YOU choose. Emphasis on the words YOU/YOUR. Not for GOVERNMENT to decide how much you should be given nor how much GOVERNMENT decides you should keep, nor how much GOVERNMENT deems you should spend or what you should spend it on.

It’s called Liberty and Freedom which is what has made this country great. No I don’t want anyone being forced to subsidize a rich kid’s college education at a publicly funded university, I don’t want anyone to be forced to help pay for Annabelle’s abortion even through indirect means, I don’t want anyone to have to assist compensating for someone’s reckless behavior or irresponsibility while you’re hard at work earning a living, etc. If you want to look at art, support your museum. If you like baseball, pay for the stadium don’t ask me to. Pay your own way. There’s charity for charitable cases and they need to stand on their own merits. The do-gooders can do good by giving up THEIR money to those causes if they choose.

I grew up in an area where when someone fell on hard times we donated clothes to them, neighbors sent meals down so the families wouldn’t starve, we paid for odd jobs at times, etc. Why does government have any part of how a community operates on a basic level? We didn’t need it where I grew up.

Not every community comes together so however. So some government social programs are beneficial.

There is a big caveat coming. When significant portions of the populace decide to not work when able...and needlessly take from social welfare....it erodes those social programs. It’s a legal version of theft that deprives the truly needy.

In Spain inspectors actually inspect welfare recipients at random times to verify they qualify for social services. And aid is halted if inspectors find aid is no longer warranted. Recipients are also required to work at jobs the government sends them to. And aid is revoked if they fail to. Does anyone think that would ever fly in America?

But most who promote European countries social programs as models never reflect on these issues which would never be adopted here under similar plans.

 

[MWBATL]

Not every community comes together so however. So some government social programs are beneficial.

There is a big caveat coming. When significant portions of the populace decide to not work when able...and needlessly take from social welfare....it erodes those social programs. It’s a legal version of theft that deprives the truly needy.

In Spain inspectors actually inspect welfare recipients at random times to verify they qualify for social services. And aid is halted if inspectors find aid is no longer warranted. Recipients are also required to work at jobs the government sends them to. And aid is revoked if they fail to. Does anyone think that would ever fly in America?

But most who promote European countries social programs as models never reflect on these issues which would never be adopted here under similar plans.

Many, many aspects of life are much more rational and reasonable in Europe. Visit and hotel and they don't have handicapped accessible bathrooms or swimming pools. Restaurants can be right next to a bay or dock or not have any fences or walls to save stupid people from themselves. The list goes on and on.

Nevertheless, they also will not give individual rights and freedoms as the US Constitution does. Too bad so many liberals admire government control so much they feel free to erode those individual liberties....

 

[Lotta Booze]

First off, I want to congratulate @Lotta Juice who appears to me to be an honest Liberal trying to defend his positions. Too often Liberals devolve into your a racist, women hating, environment destroying take your pick adjective type dialogue because they do not even understand what they stand for. Bravo to you sir!

I do however think you completely misunderstand Conservatives. We have a deep respect and care immensely about those on the bottom. Our view of the world is just different. I want people to have opportunity. Taking their income passively and misusing it for personal gain as most Liberals advocate is reprehensible to a Conservative. I want YOU to enjoy the fruits of YOUR labor, to be given YOUR money that YOU earned to spend however YOU choose. Emphasis on the words YOU/YOUR. Not for GOVERNMENT to decide how much you should be given nor how much GOVERNMENT decides you should keep, nor how much GOVERNMENT deems you should spend or what you should spend it on.

It’s called Liberty and Freedom which is what has made this country great. No I don’t want anyone being forced to subsidize a rich kid’s college education at a publicly funded university, I don’t want anyone to be forced to help pay for Annabelle’s abortion even through indirect means, I don’t want anyone to have to assist compensating for someone’s reckless behavior or irresponsibility while you’re hard at work earning a living, etc. If you want to look at art, support your museum. If you like baseball, pay for the stadium don’t ask me to. Pay your own way. There’s charity for charitable cases and they need to stand on their own merits. The do-gooders can do good by giving up THEIR money to those causes if they choose.

I grew up in an area where when someone fell on hard times we donated clothes to them, neighbors sent meals down so the families wouldn’t starve, we paid for odd jobs at times, etc. Why does government have any part of how a community operates on a basic level? We didn’t need it where I grew up.

I appreciate that and I appreciate that this thread has been a reasonable discussion. I may throw out a barb here and there regarding some conservative talking points but I do realize that there's just about every size, shape, and type of conservative. The same with liberal/moderate/apathetic/agnostic/whateverelse type of person.

I try to look at things like healthcare for their cost, like y'all do I'm sure, but probably in a different way. The heartburn with healthcare for everyone is the cost. In my mind we're all paying the cost right now, it's not just a future what-if. The system we have is not working that well for the people who do have insurance and all the people who don't have insurance are still costing the system money. What happens when someone without insurance goes to the emergency room and they can't pay? The hospital just eats the cost. Causing them to have to overcharge and take the money where they can get it to make up for those losses. And there is no stopping those costs from happening as long as people aren't insured out there. You could stop it by changing the law that mandates emergency rooms to take care of the people who come in but I'm not voting for that dystopian future.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who go bankrupt every year because of medical costs. And many of them DO have insurance and think that they are covered. They think they've done everything right and they still get thrown to the woodchipper of a system we have currently. That's messed up. And with every bankruptcy that's another unpaid bill we're all paying for.

I do a lot of cost projecting for my job and without treating this problem it feels like we're always going over budget on a line item and never adjusting our projections to cover that cost. And I certainly don't want taxes to be too overbearing but I understand there is a cost for my safety and residence in this country and a lot of opportunities that come with it. And part of that cost I'll pay is not living in a society that would leave its dead in the streets because they didn't have a way to pay.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Perhaps some of it is fear mongering. I do try to do reading where possible and uncover as many facts as I can from all sites. But there are trends I find disturbing...

What I was specifically referring to here was the "Oregon bakery case" as well as a similar one in Colorado. Gay couple goes to on Oregon bakery and asks them to make them a wedding cake. According to everything I researched, the bakery owners were very polite, but refused on religious grounds...but offered to recommend and even contact other bakeries on their behalf. Apparently, the gay couple was initially OK with this, until some of their more activist friends heard about it and brought the bakery up for a civil rights violation. If I am not mistaken, the gay couple was quite hesitant to bring up as far as it went. But activists sought to make an example of it. This is obviously a case of intersecting rights in conflict, not a simple case of religious persecution, and as such is subject to differences of opinion. But the zeal with which the case was pursued was frightening to me, resulting in fines of $150,000 and putting the bakery out of business. Why? For following their own religious beliefs.

In a similar case in Colorado, the Supreme Court in a narrow decision over-ruled the Civil Rights Commission there and found them in violation of the defendants' religious liberty.
The Supreme Court of the United States has ended a five-year legal battle in the Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission case, ruling that the commission’s actions violated the Free Exercise Clause.

The court is not deciding the big issue in the case, whether a business can invoke religious objections to refuse service to gay and lesbian people.

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the opinion for the court, which voted 7-2 to reverse a lower court's ruling. Justices Ginsburg and Sotomayor dissented. The justices' limited ruling turned on what the court described as anti-religious bias on the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when it ruled against baker Jack Phillips.

So, there are such cases. I suspect the Oregon case will also wind up before the SCOTUS, and it will be interesting indeed to see how they rule.

Further, there was the recent controversy in Pennsylvania about the prayer made before a new representative to their State House was sworn in. The new representative is Muslim, and the prayer was Christian (and was a bit heavy handed)...but then later a Muslim prayer was offered and no one said a peep. Somehow, praying before an assembly (which is standard practice for that body) should not be politicized...yet apparently, it was a problem for the Dems because it was a Muslim about to be sworn in...

So, while I have not heard anyone proposing to overturn the Constitution, I have witnessed many grey areas which seem to be shading more and more into religious discrimination.

In a similar vein, the current movie about abortion (Unplanned, I believe it is named) could not get any major network to accept advertising for the movie. These types of things disturb me and if the networks refused a progressive cause in the same way I believe the outrage would be hysterical. (not funny, but very loud and very angry)

My first thought when you said it was a Fox News clip I remember seeing with them complaining about Starbucks changing the color of their Christmas/Holiday cups. Instead of Santa they just changed it to red with Happy Holidays and Hannity was claiming it was a war on Christmas. So that's why I was thinking fear mongering.

The bakery cases are in a bit of a gray area combined with an internet outrage machine. I can understand feeling uncomfortable serving someone of a different lifestyle than you're used to but in doing business you agree to the laws of the land and not discriminating against people isn't exactly new. I also don't remember Jesus saying "Don't associate with people who are different from you and don't do business with them". Let ye who is without sin bake the first cake right? That's why I don't entirely buy that it is Christian persecution. I don't see anything Christian about it.

 

[MWBATL]

My first thought when you said it was a Fox News clip I remember seeing with them complaining about Starbucks changing the color of their Christmas/Holiday cups. Instead of Santa they just changed it to red with Happy Holidays and Hannity was claiming it was a war on Christmas. So that's why I was thinking fear mongering.

Yellow Journalism 200 years ago championed the fear mongering model that now seems to pervade all of media. Heck, it has probably been going on as long as there have been humans. They generally exaggerate and go for the emotional reaction, I have found. I found this by double checking with other media outelts, which is why it is always important to do so, whether it is MSNBC you prefer, or Fox.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I appreciate that and I appreciate that this thread has been a reasonable discussion. I may throw out a barb here and there regarding some conservative talking points but I do realize that there's just about every size, shape, and type of conservative. The same with liberal/moderate/apathetic/agnostic/whateverelse type of person.

I try to look at things like healthcare for their cost, like y'all do I'm sure, but probably in a different way. The heartburn with healthcare for everyone is the cost. In my mind we're all paying the cost right now, it's not just a future what-if. The system we have is not working that well for the people who do have insurance and all the people who don't have insurance are still costing the system money. What happens when someone without insurance goes to the emergency room and they can't pay? The hospital just eats the cost. Causing them to have to overcharge and take the money where they can get it to make up for those losses. And there is no stopping those costs from happening as long as people aren't insured out there. You could stop it by changing the law that mandates emergency rooms to take care of the people who come in but I'm not voting for that dystopian future.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who go bankrupt every year because of medical costs. And many of them DO have insurance and think that they are covered. They think they've done everything right and they still get thrown to the woodchipper of a system we have currently. That's messed up. And with every bankruptcy that's another unpaid bill we're all paying for.

I do a lot of cost projecting for my job and without treating this problem it feels like we're always going over budget on a line item and never adjusting our projections to cover that cost. And I certainly don't want taxes to be too overbearing but I understand there is a cost for my safety and residence in this country and a lot of opportunities that come with it. And part of that cost I'll pay is not living in a society that would leave its dead in the streets because they didn't have a way to pay.

Lots of truth here. Part of the problems with costs and insurance is the pressure litigation placed on the system. That’s just one of many. And another difference between America and systems in other countries.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

My first thought when you said it was a Fox News clip I remember seeing with them complaining about Starbucks changing the color of their Christmas/Holiday cups. Instead of Santa they just changed it to red with Happy Holidays and Hannity was claiming it was a war on Christmas. So that's why I was thinking fear mongering.

The bakery cases are in a bit of a gray area combined with an internet outrage machine. I can understand feeling uncomfortable serving someone of a different lifestyle than you're used to but in doing business you agree to the laws of the land and not discriminating against people isn't exactly new. I also don't remember Jesus saying "Don't associate with people who are different from you and don't do business with them". Let ye who is without sin bake the first cake right? That's why I don't entirely buy that it is Christian persecution. I don't see anything Christian about it.

But that’s your religious belief system. Which is no more and no less deserving of protection than other individuals religious beliefs.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

My first thought when you said it was a Fox News clip I remember seeing with them complaining about Starbucks changing the color of their Christmas/Holiday cups. Instead of Santa they just changed it to red with Happy Holidays and Hannity was claiming it was a war on Christmas. So that's why I was thinking fear mongering.

The bakery cases are in a bit of a gray area combined with an internet outrage machine. I can understand feeling uncomfortable serving someone of a different lifestyle than you're used to but in doing business you agree to the laws of the land and not discriminating against people isn't exactly new. I also don't remember Jesus saying "Don't associate with people who are different from you and don't do business with them". Let ye who is without sin bake the first cake right? That's why I don't entirely buy that it is Christian persecution. I don't see anything Christian about it.

It has nothing to do with serving someone different from you. I really hope you typed that just because it was typed that way and not because you honestly think that’s what’s going on. The baker tried his best to serve them. They didn’t want any cake in the store. It’s not about serving someone, it’s about actively participating in something you don’t like. In this case it was building a custom gay wedding cake. But it could have just as easily been putting the N word on a cake or a giant *****. You should always have to serve someone regardless of who they are. But you should never have to participate in some activity you don’t like.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@Lotta Juice I’ll focus on healthcare for a Monet. Again we have a huge disconnect. You’re approaching healthcare by focusing on the symptom, a poor soul down on his luck goes to the emergency room & dies because he has no healthcare therefore society owes him healthcare coverage.

I believe on fixing the problem. Give the individual the opportunity &means to make his own choices. If we weren’t taxing the hell out of people & businesses they would be able to have higher pay and be able to make their own choices. Healthcare costs would no be so high because of extraordinary burdens placed on doctors (malpractice insurance, etc), medical device companies in the form of extreme testing required before going to market due to overregulations, etc, frivolous lawsuits driving premiums up and causing a whole cottage industry of wast, fraud & abuse.

Maybe if Joe was just able to get paid a good wage for him & his family we wouldn’t have so many on the government dole? They would have a sense of achievement instead of entitlement, etc. That’s what our country’s about.

 

[Lotta Booze]

It has nothing to do with serving someone different from you. I really hope you typed that just because it was typed that way and not because you honestly think that’s what’s going on. The baker tried his best to serve them. They didn’t want any cake in the store. It’s not about serving someone, it’s about actively participating in something you don’t like. In this case it was building a custom gay wedding cake. But it could have just as easily been putting the N word on a cake or a giant *****. You should always have to serve someone regardless of who they are. But you should never have to participate in some activity you don’t like.

I admittedly don’t know all the ins and outs of the case. If they were being asked to make a custom gay wedding cake with dancing penises all over it they should be able to say, “We don’t make those types of cake here” and I don’t think that would be a problem. But if all this custom cake said was “Congratulations Mark & Eric”....then I’m still struggling to see it as religious persecution. Could someone decline to make a cake because the names were African names and the bakers didn’t like them? That is part of the trade off in passing anti-discrimination laws.

And I still don’t really view it as a Christian action. Although there are 1,000s of denominations and interpretations of Christianity I’d like to think most would come back to WWJD. And you know Jesus would make them a cake. And wash their feet while they waited

 

[Lotta Booze]

@Lotta Juice I’ll focus on healthcare for a Monet. Again we have a huge disconnect. You’re approaching healthcare by focusing on the symptom, a poor soul down on his luck goes to the emergency room & dies because he has no healthcare therefore society owes him healthcare coverage.

I believe on fixing the problem. Give the individual the opportunity &means to make his own choices. If we weren’t taxing the hell out of people & businesses they would be able to have higher pay and be able to make their own choices. Healthcare costs would no be so high because of extraordinary burdens placed on doctors (malpractice insurance, etc), medical device companies in the form of extreme testing required before going to market due to overregulations, etc, frivolous lawsuits driving premiums up and causing a whole cottage industry of wast, fraud & abuse.

Maybe if Joe was just able to get paid a good wage for him & his family we wouldn’t have so many on the government dole? They would have a sense of achievement instead of entitlement, etc. That’s what our country’s about.

I guess it’s the bleeding heart liberal in me but I keep coming back to the people who are making good wages and have health insurance and are still chewed up by the system. These are people who could largely make their own choices and thought they were covered and still get saddled with crushing debt. I view that as an inherent flaw in the system. It’s like a guillotine hanging over each individual’s head just waiting for you to have an accident or a brief lapse in coverage while changing jobs to come down and financially destroy you. I struggle to believe that de-regulating and tort reform fixes all of that but also haven’t seen any serious proposals come from the republicans proposing how they’d fix it

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I admittedly don’t know all the ins and outs of the case. If they were being asked to make a custom gay wedding cake with dancing penises all over it they should be able to say, “We don’t make those types of cake here” and I don’t think that would be a problem. But if all this custom cake said was “Congratulations Mark & Eric”....then I’m still struggling to see it as religious persecution. Could someone decline to make a cake because the names were African names and the bakers didn’t like them? That is part of the trade off in passing anti-discrimination laws.

And I still don’t really view it as a Christian action. Although there are 1,000s of denominations and interpretations of Christianity I’d like to think most would come back to WWJD. And you know Jesus would make them a cake. And wash their feet while they waited

No, the baker wasn’t a racist and it wasn’t just congratulations. In a perfect world, if it weren’t crude like dancing penises (LOl, love that illustration), it would be nice if people would just love on each other and served each other. But it is certainly someone’s right to decline that type of thing.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I admittedly don’t know all the ins and outs of the case. If they were being asked to make a custom gay wedding cake with dancing penises all over it they should be able to say, “We don’t make those types of cake here” and I don’t think that would be a problem. But if all this custom cake said was “Congratulations Mark & Eric”....then I’m still struggling to see it as religious persecution. Could someone decline to make a cake because the names were African names and the bakers didn’t like them? That is part of the trade off in passing anti-discrimination laws.

And I still don’t really view it as a Christian action. Although there are 1,000s of denominations and interpretations of Christianity I’d like to think most would come back to WWJD. And you know Jesus would make them a cake. And wash their feet while they waited

I have to agree that if I was the baker I’d have baked their cake and customized it to their liking even if I found it distasteful. IMO that’s just good business.

But the government should never persecute someone for choosing otherwise based on their religious beliefs. If the baker had been Muslim this would have never been a story to begin with. Christian or Jewish baker? Watch out.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I guess it’s the bleeding heart liberal in me but I keep coming back to the people who are making good wages and have health insurance and are still chewed up by the system. These are people who could largely make their own choices and thought they were covered and still get saddled with crushing debt. I view that as an inherent flaw in the system. It’s like a guillotine hanging over each individual’s head just waiting for you to have an accident or a brief lapse in coverage while changing jobs to come down and financially destroy you. I struggle to believe that de-regulating and tort reform fixes all of that but also haven’t seen any serious proposals come from the republicans proposing how they’d fix it

Well I mean, if I were diagnosed by cancer tomorrow, I would probably be in bad financial shape when it was over. But here is the good news. I am in the country with the best healthcare and best outcomes. I would be willing to pay whatever I could to not die. And I would ask for help, and try to get back to work again when I am done, and if I have to start over at ground zero with nothing...well at least I am still here. At least we have the technology to stand a fighting chance. There is no magic tree that grows millions of dollars for everyone if they have a cancer diagnosis, or a bad car accident or [fill in the blank]. Life is not and cannot be perfectly comfortable for everyone in this country all the time. It doesn't work that way.

Its like (I'm not talking to you LJ, so please don't take this next comment the wrong way) people don't believe in God, they don't believe in charity, they don't believe in the goodness of other people, and the government is their God and should run and operate everything as some omnipotent being. And as long as there is at least 1 rich person, we have someone's money to take to help make it happen. Again, I am not talking to you, I just replied to your post on the debt comment, and then extended my post further in a different direction so please don't take it that way. I was just lazy and didn't want to post a separate comment, LOL.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Well I mean, if I were diagnosed by cancer tomorrow, I would probably be in bad financial shape when it was over. But here is the good news. I am in the country with the best healthcare and best outcomes. I would be willing to pay whatever I could to not die. And I would ask for help, and try to get back to work again when I am done, and if I have to start over at ground zero with nothing...well at least I am still here. At least we have the technology to stand a fighting chance. There is no magic tree that grows millions of dollars for everyone if they have a cancer diagnosis, or a bad car accident or [fill in the blank]. Life is not and cannot be perfectly comfortable for everyone in this country all the time. It doesn't work that way.

Its like (I'm not talking to you LJ, so please don't take this next comment the wrong way) people don't believe in God, they don't believe in charity, they don't believe in the goodness of other people, and the government is their God and should run and operate everything as some omnipotent being. And as long as there is at least 1 rich person, we have someone's money to take to help make it happen. Again, I am not talking to you, I just replied to your post on the debt comment, and then extended my post further in a different direction so please don't take it that way. I was just lazy and didn't want to post a separate comment, LOL.

That is certainly a complication of advancing technology and treatments. Healthcare costs weren't as big of a deal when the recommended treatment was throwing some leeches on the person to get the bad blood out of them. And if that didn't work you were just dead.