Amazed how people just don’t want to work

[RonJohn]

Here’s an anecdote for you….I have an elderly friend who is perhaps one of the largest commercial real estate developers in Georgia. You would perhaps recognize his name if I mentioned him. He and his wife live in a 1200 sq ft cabin on a creek in north Georgia. There is nothing about his lifestyle that would give away that he is worth millions.

Oh, and he went to Tech.

Good for him.

There are several examples of living so far below a person's means that it is probably pushing things to far. Probably the most extreme that I know if is a story I remembered from long ago, and looked it up. The article I read at the time discussed this couple in more detail. If I remember correctly, they lived in a row house in Philadelphia. They drove a few years old Cadillac. The lady was a member of the neighborhood gardening club. The man died, and then a few years later the woman died. She left $1 million to the gardening club, whose members told the reporter I read that the weren't aware that the couple had $1million. In the article I linked to, it describes the couple telling the director of a science history organization that they were putting the organization in their will. He politely thanked them. When she died, the organization received more than $100 million. They started investing with Warren Buffet in the 50s. The couple's net worth when she died in 1998 was over $750 million, but nobody knew about it. (not really nobody because Berkshire Hathaway did know)

FOLLOWING BUFFETT MAKES BIG PHILANTHROPISTS OF 2 TEACHERS

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[Technut1990]

And I mean it when I say I wish I had an answer.

I know you do and God only knows how much prayer has been directed at this. When a young person listens to society and chooses a lifestyle or mindset that goes against his entire families viewpoints or advise I think perhaps they have to be left alone to discover their own hardship. I hope for good fortune and advise him in that direction, he is welcome at every family event and vacation but ultimately he has to want successful outcomes rather than short satisfaction. I get it to some degree, like I’ve said I can be stubborn myself but some things just don’t make sense, I’m smart enough to know you have to have an education in this world, the saddest part about this to me is that I know he is smart enough to know that too.

 

[Technut1990]

I don’t thinks it capitalism that does this I think it’s a lack of ethics a ton of greed and the desire to be financially comfortable ( which isn’t a bad thing). Ego exposes the people who suffer from the greed and lack of ethics as the wealthy who we never see or hear from have no need to destroy people. The converse side of silent riches is loud Egos, a feeling of power and control and ability to abuse seems inherent in those types. Given most driven people are Type A people the combination of riches and power isn’t really good for society In their hands. Chances are good that the silent people of wealth are really just hard working Type Bs, they have no inter desire to flaunt what they have nor the inclination to use their money to abuse.

I think the same is true in all forms of governance, the people in power will set rules that keep them in power and 100% of the time, in government, those in power are rich or soon will be. I think it boils down to being on one side of the gulf. If you have to die to see the good in others then you weren’t going to do a lot of good with your riches as you were alive. That’s a personal trait not really anything else.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I know you do and God only knows how much prayer has been directed at this. When a young person listens to society and chooses a lifestyle or mindset that goes against his entire families viewpoints or advise I think perhaps they have to be left alone to discover their own hardship. I hope for good fortune and advise him in that direction, he is welcome at every family event and vacation but ultimately he has to want successful outcomes rather than short satisfaction. I get it to some degree, like I’ve said I can be stubborn myself but some things just don’t make sense, I’m smart enough to know you have to have an education in this world, the saddest part about this to me is that I know he is smart enough to know that too.

I think you have to trust that you gave him every tool for success that you could. There are people who follow the same rocky circuitous route that he is on and end up quite successful. At the very least he probably has enough smarts to survive even his initial self sabotage. You are doing the right thing showing him unconditional love in the meantime. He may turn to you for advice in the future.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Reflecting on all the above it should be apparent that trying to guarantee outcomes is damn near impossible and what we should be striving to do is provide opportunities, You can try as hard as you want to guarantee an outcome for everyone, but in the end it’s virtually impossible to ensure success & happiness give the extraordinary difference among ourselves. Our forefathers were obviously not perfect men, but they conceived a framework for the greatest nation ever. We just need to strive to attain the ideals they provided for us, not destroy the framework because it‘s not perfect for everyone, every time, in every circumstance.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

I have been teaching high school for the last 10 years. I will tell you what I learned in this time - prior to this experience, I had an inflated sense of what I accomplished at GT and in my professional career in engineering and management following. After spending time around high school kids, I realize that I, in essence, hit the lottery in life - like other posters have mentioned, I was raised in a loving, stable working class family where I was taught responsibility and accountability. I guess I assumed that everyone else did too. Based on my observations, the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mantra that gets tossed around works for maybe 1-2% of the children born into unfortunate circumstances. Reflecting back on my life and decision making skills as a teen, I doubt I would have that ability myself back then. Sounds much easier than it actually is. Children need to see behaviors continually modeled by people they know and trust and not just be told or lectured.

I really just have to say that it’s a shame that you of all persons would deprecate yourself in this way that your success is less due to your effort — and certain not a lottery.

So I’ll offer my own experience: born in 70’s to a lower income teacher parents; no constant encouragement or instruction and a fairly dysfunctional family unit. In fact, a recipe for failure. But, innately, some internal drive to success in spite of the environment. Literally.. a “pull yourself by the bootstraps” mantra.

For sure there are those who face extreme odds.. but in this country that should never be the proffered excuse. For I in my own life and through others’ know that this is false pretense for failure.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I really just have to say that it’s a shame that you of all persons would deprecate yourself in this way that your success is less due to your effort — and certain not a lottery.

So I’ll offer my own experience: born in 70’s to a lower income teacher parents; no constant encouragement or instruction and a fairly dysfunctional family unit. In fact, a recipe for failure. But, innately, some internal drive to success in spite of the environment. Literally.. a “pull yourself by the bootstraps” mantra.

For sure there are those who face extreme odds.. but in this country that should never be the proffered excuse. For I in my own life and through others’ know that this is false pretense for failure.

I think you were mistaking his humility for self deprecation. Humility is not a bad thing.

 

[4shotB]

I really just have to say that it’s a shame that you of all persons would deprecate yourself in this way that your success is less due to your effort — and certain not a lottery.

So I’ll offer my own experience: born in 70’s to a lower income teacher parents; no constant encouragement or instruction and a fairly dysfunctional family unit. In fact, a recipe for failure. But, innately, some internal drive to success in spite of the environment. Literally.. a “pull yourself by the bootstraps” mantra.

For sure there are those who face extreme odds.. but in this country that should never be the proffered excuse. For I in my own life and through others’ know that this is false pretense for failure.

Congrats to you and I am being sincere. I did not say it was impossible, just that it is highly unlikely based on a decade of being around young people. I am also aware that I was dealt a good hand (not a perfect one or one without its own unique set of challenges mind you) and fully recognize that I did my share to build upon that foundation. There are many stories of people who were given the head start in life and squandered their oppportunities. But looking back at myself and choices I made as a youth/teenager, I really don't think I was one who was innately wired for success.

I don't want to speculate or make assumptions, but I am guessing that, as educators, your attendance at school and academic performance weren't solely left up to you. And with two college educated parents (however dysfunctional) you didn't have to worry about food and shelter. Again, it is dangerous to make assumptions and if I am wrong, please forgive me and also understand that you have my greatest respect as being in that small tip of the iceberg that can overcome dire circumstances in your early life.

 

[Buzzbomb]

The problem with stereotyping, is that it doesn’t factor in life’s turns such as addictions, extenuating health concerns(not only your health, but caregiving too), working at a career that brings joy & happiness, true accidents and taking a job that fits in with family hours[such as childcare or to accommodate a spouse or ?]. In my own personal view, everything falls under God’s Plan. Sure, He wants you to labor, help thyself, although ultimately it is for He, to whom you please.
I feel the need to be a better Christian version of myself with each extra day he gives me. We may not factor in the gift of helping others because that is to stay silent, however it is the greatest measure of success to me. I made the 1.1 million a graduate degree is supposed to gross for the wallet, and I also found homes for the majority of the money. In a perfect world you save for the rainy day or days, and then you get the opportunity to share it when needed. One last thing I learned very late…in love, trust is what happy couples share. I believe it holds true for the great friendships too.

 

[Technut1990]

In my view the greatest challenge we have in society is identifying those who cannot help themselves due to their inability and separating them from those who have the ability but don’t choose wisely. Life management is huge. We can start helping by teaching financial literacy as early as 5th grade. if you are poor and hit the lottery the chances are high that you will squander that money. It’s the teach them to fish principle.

I suspect that we all have things that took place in our lives that we could blame if we were poor and needy but being poor and needy AND uneducated prevents upward mobility

 

[GTBlaze]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.. had to step away for a bit - got a little crazy with things

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Congrats to you and I am being sincere. I did not say it was impossible, just that it is highly unlikely based on a decade of being around young people. I am also aware that I was dealt a good hand (not a perfect one or one without its own unique set of challenges mind you) and fully recognize that I did my share to build upon that foundation. There are many stories of people who were given the head start in life and squandered their oppportunities. But looking back at myself and choices I made as a youth/teenager, I really don't think I was one who was innately wired for success.

I don't want to speculate or make assumptions, but I am guessing that, as educators, your attendance at school and academic performance weren't solely left up to you. And with two college educated parents (however dysfunctional) you didn't have to worry about food and shelter. Again, it is dangerous to make assumptions and if I am wrong, please forgive me and also understand that you have my greatest respect as being in that small tip of the iceberg that can overcome dire circumstances in your early life.

Thanks @4shotB (and certainly more broadly to your and the other mods here to watch over the site). And, of course, no misunderstanding of insincerity or reason for any offense.

re, as parents were educators:

- attendance was neither impressed not suggested. Ever. It was understood with no words. Like those of us who show up for work: it just .. is
- academic performance, same. I was very good. And my brother was not great. But in either case there was no parenting in that sense.

re, food and shelter:

- really, how many people and kids REALLY understand this . In America, sure, we compare against the rich, celebrity, politicians and entertainers (namely, of course, the entitled professional athlete). But, really, basic food and shelter is not an issue and extraordinary amounts public resources and money are devoted to this class
- perhaps we should baseline conditions against , say, Haiti? ( Who from Haiti wouldn’t trade his circumstance for an opportunity here ? ). Perspective is really powerful

All this to say I have little ability to understand why people will otherwise “choose” a path of incapability / dependency / failure. I understand, though, the potential is there in as a much as a disease… say, Covid? But as with it there are consequences due due to choices, plain and simple.

I will offer in utmost sincerity the value of you as an educator. This is a NECESSARY model in these times and, I think, so critical for the America’s future in the sense of instilling self-confidence and will to do good. Educators simply must not fall back to tripe of victimization of oppression, entitlement and the like.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

I think you were mistaking his humility for self deprecation. Humility is not a bad thing.

Yes, I absolutely agree on that! Thank you for calling this out and all the best to you.
And for sure no one here should think to disparage @4shotB or anyone here. And it is too easy to parse a post’s verbiage to make a point.

Of course this is exactly what I did, and intentionally but not maliciously! The buzz words I locked on were, “inflated sense of what I accomplished” and “hit the lottery in life”.

Absolutely: this is me parsing word choices. But primarily not wanting 4shotB to fall into a trap of undercutting his accomplishments.
Which is precisely why I offered my own experience, which absolutely could have landed in the opposite path. I am unabashedly proud of myself, while at the same time humble before those (and, yes, before God) who’ve accomplished much more.

I just don’t think we as hard-working and honest people should step back from the efforts we’ve made. Nor easily let others walk away from bare minimum life challenges. The country needs people like 4shotB — and like most of us here —who will honestly persevere, be successful and be mindful of others who need guidance.

 

[LibertyTurns]

It’s just amazing how much can change in a generation or two. I wore very few clothes not previously worn by 1 or 2 of my other brothers. We all got one clean pair of trousers and one clean shirt for the first day of school, birthdays and Christmas we got shoes or something, if we were lucky one “present”. There were never any leftovers because we ate everything that was made.

We’re quite lucky to live in a country where not having a car, a big screen tv & a cellphone is considered poor.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

It’s just amazing how much can change in a generation or two. I wore very few clothes not previously worn by 1 or 2 of my other brothers. We all got one clean pair of trousers and one clean shirt for the first day of school, birthdays and Christmas we got shoes or something, if we were lucky one “present”. There were never any leftovers because we ate everything that was made.

We’re quite lucky to live in a country where not having a car, a big screen tv & a cellphone is considered poor.

This, exactly. PERSPECTIVE and RELATIVITY.

But I already know I agree with your posts. I just can’t identify with logic of others’.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.. had to step away for a bit - got a little crazy with things

Watch that cliff to your Left

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It’s just amazing how much can change in a generation or two. I wore very few clothes not previously worn by 1 or 2 of my other brothers. We all got one clean pair of trousers and one clean shirt for the first day of school, birthdays and Christmas we got shoes or something, if we were lucky one “present”. There were never any leftovers because we ate everything that was made.

We’re quite lucky to live in a country where not having a car, a big screen tv & a cellphone is considered poor.

Those were the days, right? I played barefoot most of the time. I had one pair of shoes that I went to school in, played little league ball in, and then Saturday night applied Griffin shoe polish to so I could wear them to church. My hand-me-down pants had iron-on knee patches. I still tend to not spend a lot of money on stuff.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Those were the days, right? I played barefoot most of the time. I had one pair of shoes that I went to school in, played little league ball in, and then Saturday night applied Griffin shoe polish to so I could wear them to church. My hand-me-down pants had iron-on knee patches. I still tend to not spend a lot of money on stuff.

My gosh.. then why any apologetics to the current environment? That’s where I get lost. I was born in ‘70 .. certainly not under your experience, but by no means entitled or privileged in any way. So how do you rationalize or otherwise excuse the mindset of the current generation and leadership talking points?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

My gosh.. then why any apologetics to the current environment? That’s where I get lost. I was born in ‘70 .. certainly not under your experience, but by no means entitled or privileged in any way. So how do you rationalize or otherwise excuse the mindset of the current generation and leadership talking points?

Education.

 

[LibertyTurns]

This, exactly. PERSPECTIVE and RELATIVITY.

But I already know I agree with your posts. I just can’t identify with logic of others’.

Learn from them. They’re not logical like Engineers endeavoring to determine cause & effect, exact in their reasoning. They believe the ends justify the means, for the good of their fellow man. Their motives are not impure, just their tactics. When people wantonly disregard the very principles that have made our nation great & fail to understand the difference between human failure over the course of history resulting in sometimes gross misapplication of those guiding principles, they lead to erroneous strategies to address fairly straightforward albeit longstanding, complex challenges and tend to result in reactive responses to impulsive desires.