ACC - Odds to Win Conference 2021

[stech81]

I meant my previous comment to be lighthearted, not attacking. Need to include more emojis. You’re generally one to keep it light in here, so I wasn’t trying to be that way.

I understand all of this. I was merely pointing out that we puff our chest out a lot on this site and say "If X doesn't happen, then Y will," or "Coach better win X games this year, or else!" My point is there really is no "or else" until it becomes really bad, and Year 3 / Year 4 in this instance is not that bad.

AND, I really wasn't jumping on @stech81 as it came across because he is usually very lighthearted about his comments on here.

Sorry bad day wife was home all day .

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I meant my previous comment to be lighthearted, not attacking. Need to include more emojis. You’re generally one to keep it light in here, so I wasn’t trying to be that way.

I understand all of this. I was merely pointing out that we puff our chest out a lot on this site and say "If X doesn't happen, then Y will," or "Coach better win X games this year, or else!" My point is there really is no "or else" until it becomes really bad, and Year 3 / Year 4 in this instance is not that bad.

AND, I really wasn't jumping on @stech81 as it came across because he is usually very lighthearted about his comments on here.

You should know by now that Tech does not operate that way. For one thing, we cannot afford to go coach shopping and for another the fan base just is not that aggressive or even demanding to start with. If Collins won just 2 games it would not matter except that he might find recruiting to be getting a bit more difficult.

 

[takethepoints]

You should know by now that Tech does not operate that way. For one thing, we cannot afford to go coach shopping and for another the fan base just is not that aggressive or even demanding to start with. If Collins won just 2 games it would not matter except that he might find recruiting to be getting a bit more difficult.

I agree with this, but it leaves out one thing: expectations. By now the folks who wanted Paul gone are getting a bit anxious. They expected a lot of Collins when he came in and so far, despite increasing talent levels (as those are fitfully measured), nothing much has happened. I think we had better win 5 - 6 games - a stretch imho, but possible - or Collins and co. will be finding their chairs getting uncomfortably hot. Patience has its limits. Especially when it is disappointed.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I agree with this, but it leaves out one thing: expectations. By now the folks who wanted Paul gone are getting a bit anxious. They expected a lot of Collins when he came in and so far, despite increasing talent levels (as those are fitfully measured), nothing much has happened. I think we had better win 5 - 6 games - a stretch imho, but possible - or Collins and co. will be finding their chairs getting uncomfortably hot. Patience has its limits. Especially when it is disappointed.

LOL! Patience? Year 1: Totally changed the offense. Year 2: Covid19 absolutely devastates the Spring and recruiting, and limits the amount of time a team already in transition gets to work on that transition. So, now we're here at Year 3 and "we had better win 5 - 6 games...finding their chairs getting uncomfortably hot." Save that for Year 5.

It's way too early to have expectations about wins and losses. Absolutely time to have expectations about how the team looks on the field and how they've progressed since last year.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

It's way too early to have expectations about wins and losses. Absolutely time to have expectations about how the team looks on the field and how they've progressed since last year.

I mean, it seems obvious to me that this would be true but there are already people buying pitchforks out there....

 

[WreckinGT]

LOL! Patience? Year 1: Totally changed the offense. Year 2: Covid19 absolutely devastates the Spring and recruiting, and limits the amount of time a team already in transition gets to work on that transition. So, now we're here at Year 3 and "we had better win 5 - 6 games...finding their chairs getting uncomfortably hot." Save that for Year 5.

It's way too early to have expectations about wins and losses. Absolutely time to have expectations about how the team looks on the field and how they've progressed since last year.

We should wait until year 5 before we can reasonably expect 5 wins? A win total that we matched or surpassed 23 of the 24 seasons before the current regime?

 

[cthenrys]

LOL! Patience? Year 1: Totally changed the offense. Year 2: Covid19 absolutely devastates the Spring and recruiting, and limits the amount of time a team already in transition gets to work on that transition. So, now we're here at Year 3 and "we had better win 5 - 6 games...finding their chairs getting uncomfortably hot." Save that for Year 5.

It's way too early to have expectations about wins and losses. Absolutely time to have expectations about how the team looks on the field and how they've progressed since last year.

Stop. Can we just not suck ? Winning 6 in two years is pretty terrible we should all agree. No more excuses. Time to win some games or we do have issues. That’s not unreasonable.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Stop. Can we just not suck ? Winning 6 in two years is pretty terrible we should all agree. No more excuses. Time to win some games or we do have issues. That’s not unreasonable.

No. I won't stop. Unreasonable fans with unreasonable expectations are the ones that need to stop. No one is making excuses. Losing sucks and everyone hates it. Everyone wants to win as quickly as possible. But to have unreasonable expectations in what equates to be Year 2B is ridiculous. To set expectations on the number of wins is unreasonable. To expect progress and improvement is not unreasonable. What does "win some games" mean anyway? We "won some games" the past two years.

My expectations are that the team comes into each game prepared and ready to play, with a game plan that is sound and puts the team in a position to win. I expect the players to be well-coached and to play hard and smart. I expect that we will see improvement in areas were looked horrible last year (OL, penalties, kicking, time management, LB, etc.). I expect us to be a better team. If those things are accomplished, I'm comfortable with the chips falling where they may regarding wins and losses.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Ok, so question. Purely hypothetical, Let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4 win 8 in year 5 and drop back to 7 or 6 in year 6. During this period we do not beat either Clemson or UGA. What happens in year 7? is it time to change coaches? We will have not achieved what CPJ did but basically did what Chan did.

 

[jojatk]

We should wait until year 5 before we can reasonably expect 5 wins? A win total that we matched or surpassed 23 of the 24 seasons before the current regime?

No, you misread it. The number 5 was a quote from the poster being responded to, not a suggested win total for year 5. The concept was that in year 5 it would be more appropriate to set specific win totals as the absolute success measurement.

 

[jojatk]

Ok, so question. Purely hypothetical, Let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4 win 8 in year 5 and drop back to 7 or 6 in year 6. During this period we do not beat either Clemson or UGA. What happens in year 7? is it time to change coaches? We will have not achieved what CPJ did but basically did what Chan did.

OK, purely hypothetically, let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4, win 8 in year 5, and continue to win 8-12 games in year 6+. During this period we may or may not beat either Clemson or UGA but we start getting much more competitive with them and definitely can be beating them occasionally but the ball just hasn't bounced our way. What happens then? Is it time to say things are working?

I recognize this is probably your nightmare scenario...

(PS: if we have not made significant progress I will be very disappointed; my loyalty is to the program, not any particular coach)

 

[4shotB]

Ok, so question. Purely hypothetical, Let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4 win 8 in year 5 and drop back to 7 or 6 in year 6. During this period we do not beat either Clemson or UGA. What happens in year 7? is it time to change coaches? We will have not achieved what CPJ did but basically did what Chan did.

Again, I will play along although it is an exercise in futility. Going 0-14 in 7 years against our top two rivals will most likely result in the same fate as it did for CCG. He would almost have to be perfect against all other teams and if you don't have the horses or the coaching horsepower to be somewhat competitive against those squads that is an almost impossible task in itself.

Again, for selfish reasons, I do not want this to happen. One of, if not the, single most desirable goal for me is to see a win at BDS against Uga. I told my kids that it has happened before but they are dubious to say the least. Of course, my youngest is only 32 so he is still a young man imo and (hopefully as no one can take tomorrow for granted) has many more years ahead of him..

 

[bobongo]

Ok, so question. Purely hypothetical, Let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4 win 8 in year 5 and drop back to 7 or 6 in year 6. During this period we do not beat either Clemson or UGA. What happens in year 7? is it time to change coaches? We will have not achieved what CPJ did but basically did what Chan did.

Since Chan started out in a much better spot that CGC, and since both Clemson and Ugag are much better now than then, I would give him at least a couple more years in that scenario.

 

[Root4GT]

Ok, so question. Purely hypothetical, Let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4 win 8 in year 5 and drop back to 7 or 6 in year 6. During this period we do not beat either Clemson or UGA. What happens in year 7? is it time to change coaches? We will have not achieved what CPJ did but basically did what Chan did.

As far as beating Clemson goes only one team in their Division has beaten them during the past 6 seasons - Syracuse. Would you fire all coaches who don't beat them within 7 years? All that would do is start a new 7 year clock.

 

[augustabuzz]

Ok, so question. Purely hypothetical, Let's say we win 5 this year, jump to 7 in year 4 win 8 in year 5 and drop back to 7 or 6 in year 6. During this period we do not beat either Clemson or UGA. What happens in year 7? is it time to change coaches? We will have not achieved what CPJ did but basically did what Chan did.

I guess it would depend on who else is consistently beating those two.

 

[WreckinGT]

No, you misread it. The number 5 was a quote from the poster being responded to, not a suggested win total for year 5. The concept was that in year 5 it would be more appropriate to set specific win totals as the absolute success measurement.

You can set specific win totals and expectations for any season based on what you have and who you are playing. It makes no sense to argue otherwise. The whole point of sports is wins and losses. The argument that we should completely ignore win totals for 5 years and just try to get better in some other arbitrary measurement is nonsense. We all know what the goal is everytime the guys go out there. To win. If they can't improve in that goal over time then they aren't succeeding.

 

[yeti92]

Since Chan started out in a much better spot that CGC, and since both Clemson and Ugag are much better now than then, I would give him at least a couple more years in that scenario.

Incorrect, you fire him. A single 8 win season as the best you can do in 6 years means you are not cut out for this job.

 

[jojatk]

You can set specific win totals and expectations for any season based on what you have and who you are playing. It makes no sense to argue otherwise. The whole point of sports is wins and losses. The argument that we should completely ignore win totals for 5 years and just try to get better in some other arbitrary measurement is nonsense. We all know what the goal is everytime the guys go out there. To win. If they can't improve in that goal over time then they aren't succeeding.

You can do whatever you want. I was simply telling you that your interpretation of what the poster said was incorrect. That poster was NOT saying we have to wait until year 5 to expect 5 wins like you were suggesting the poster said. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the assertion that we should wait.

I personally look at each season, assess where I think we are talent-wise vis-a-vis the teams on our schedule and where I think we are developmentally (from an experience point of view at important positions such as QB among others), and then I come up with what I think is a reasonable expectation for wins for that season. I think it's reasonable to expect 4-6 wins this coming season. But at the same time If I see vastly improved play and we got some bad bounces or key injuries at key times I will factor that into whether I think we are on track and improving (just like I've done for every other coach we've had a GT since I became a fan).

 

[WreckinGT]

You can do whatever you want. I was simply telling you that your interpretation of what the poster said was incorrect. That poster was NOT saying we have to wait until year 5 to expect 5 wins like you were suggesting the poster said. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the assertion that we should wait.

I personally look at each season, assess where I think we are talent-wise vis-a-vis the teams on our schedule and where I think we are developmentally (from an experience point of view at important positions such as QB among others), and then I come up with what I think is a reasonable expectation for wins for that season. I think it's reasonable to expect 4-6 wins this coming season. But at the same time If I see vastly improved play and we got some bad bounces or key injuries at key times I will factor that into whether I think we are on track and improving (just like I've done for every other coach we've had a GT since I became a fan).

Let me ask you this. If we improve our national standings a small amount in nearly all phases of the game, showing clear statistical improvement, yet we go 3-9 with 30+ point losses to Clemson and UGA, would you consider that a successful season?

 

[Coloradojacket]

Let me ask you this. If we improve our national standings a small amount in nearly all phases of the game, showing clear statistical improvement, yet we go 3-9 with 30+ point losses to Clemson and UGA, would you consider that a successful season?

I will answer...no, we will have regressed even further. Success is measured in wins and losses. period. 3-9 means we have gone no where in 3 years.