ACC Discussion 2017

OldJacketFan

OldJacketFan

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MikeJackets1967 said:
In honor of GT-Clempson week i'm watching one of the great GT-Clempson games. :cool:Here's the 1984 28-21 win over Clempson:cool:

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The game where John Davis got the nickname Refrigerator Mover and Robert Lavette broke Clempson heart!!!! I was there and loved every minute of it! Had a great time partying downtown with the Clempson fans after the game :D
 
CuseJacket

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lv20gt

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zhavenor said:
Yah expect he playing with Fritz recruits. Did you ever think that is why Fritz got out of dodge so quickly? Fritz was good with Monken players and now you're seeing what Fritz's recruits are.
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Fritz flat out said why he left.

“I’m 55 going on 56,” Fritz told his players. “When I took this job, I took a big chance. I got a contract that didn’t have much job security. They told me if I proved myself, they would give me job security. Well, that wasn’t the case. I got a one-year deal, and I had to win seven games each year, and I would be reviewed. I thought the last couple of years, I felt like I deserved more than that. This stage in my career, this stage in my life, job security is really, really important to me.”

The GSU admin screwed up royally with him.
 

zhavenor

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lv20gt said:
Fritz flat out said why he left.

“I’m 55 going on 56,” Fritz told his players. “When I took this job, I took a big chance. I got a contract that didn’t have much job security. They told me if I proved myself, they would give me job security. Well, that wasn’t the case. I got a one-year deal, and I had to win seven games each year, and I would be reviewed. I thought the last couple of years, I felt like I deserved more than that. This stage in my career, this stage in my life, job security is really, really important to me.”

The GSU admin screwed up royally with him.
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What was he supposed to say to the players? I can not recruit and you guys will be crap in 2 years? Georgia Southern did screw up but it was not giving Monken more money when Army came calling. From what I heard he gave the a chance to match but they didn't. They also screwed over Summers by not letting him get Cook as his Offensive co-ordinador last year. All I'm pointing out is Fritz is not the be all end all you think he is. A big part of the mess that Georgia Southern is in is because of the talent that is there and that is the talent directly recruited by Fritz.
 

lv20gt

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zhavenor said:
What was he supposed to say to the players? I can not recruit and you guys will be crap in 2 years? Georgia Southern did screw up but it was not giving Monken more money when Army came calling. From what I heard he gave the a chance to match but they didn't. They also screwed over Summers by not letting him get Cook as his Offensive co-ordinador last year. All I'm pointing out is Fritz is not the be all end all you think he is. A big part of the mess that Georgia Southern is in is because of the talent that is there and that is the talent directly recruited by Fritz.
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A generic "great opportunity for me and my family blah blah blah" that usually goes on. The fact that he went into details about job security and the contract isn't the norm. Also I was in statesboro at the time. It wasn't a secret that he was unhappy with the way it was handled. To suggest he left because he thought the talent was bad because he couldn't recruit is a joke. He left because overseeing the transition to a higher level with a conference title and bowl victory wasn't good enough for him to get adequate job security.

His two real classes featured 13 3*s in his first class, and then 14 in the next. Summers has plenty of 3*s to work with but hasn't developed them worth a damn, and still can't coach.

The issue this year with GSU isn't talent. It's 100% coaching. It was last year and it is again this year.

Wesley Fields as a freshman averaged 6.8 ypc and had nearly 700 yards. He's at 4.2 ypc this year.
Matt Breida went from 1600 under Fritz to 600 yards last year. 7.9 ypc to 3.8.
Last year the returned Ellison and Upshaw along with Breida, and regressed HARD on offense.

They should have been better last year than they were the year before, but too a huge step back. Then they lost all the guys who had done well under Fritz but struggled under Summers, and replaced them with guys that Fritz didn't have time to coach up, and you're getting what you get. To blame this year on Fritz is a joke. It's 100% on the bad hire of summers and his bad coaching.

Summers himself is a returnee from the Van Gorder disaster with no prior head coaching experience and hired the OC from the Chris Hatcher days last year. The fact that he went from Cook to the guy who was OC when GSU tried to ditch the option is telling. There were other option coaches they could have gone after for OC but didn't. The truth is GSU would have been better off hiring Cook as the HC instead of Summers.
 

zhavenor

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lv20gt said:
A generic "great opportunity for me and my family blah blah blah" that usually goes on. The fact that he went into details about job security and the contract isn't the norm. Also I was in statesboro at the time. It wasn't a secret that he was unhappy with the way it was handled. To suggest he left because he thought the talent was bad because he couldn't recruit is a joke. He left because overseeing the transition to a higher level with a conference title and bowl victory wasn't good enough for him to get adequate job security.

His two real classes featured 13 3*s in his first class, and then 14 in the next. Summers has plenty of 3*s to work with but hasn't developed them worth a damn, and still can't coach.

The issue this year with GSU isn't talent. It's 100% coaching. It was last year and it is again this year.

Wesley Fields as a freshman averaged 6.8 ypc and had nearly 700 yards. He's at 4.2 ypc this year.
Matt Breida went from 1600 under Fritz to 600 yards last year. 7.9 ypc to 3.8.
Last year the returned Ellison and Upshaw along with Breida, and regressed HARD on offense.

They should have been better last year than they were the year before, but too a huge step back. Then they lost all the guys who had done well under Fritz but struggled under Summers, and replaced them with guys that Fritz didn't have time to coach up, and you're getting what you get. To blame this year on Fritz is a joke. It's 100% on the bad hire of summers and his bad coaching.

Summers himself is a returnee from the Van Gorder disaster with no prior head coaching experience and hired the OC from the Chris Hatcher days last year. The fact that he went from Cook to the guy who was OC when GSU tried to ditch the option is telling. There were other option coaches they could have gone after for OC but didn't. The truth is GSU would have been better off hiring Cook as the HC instead of Summers.
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I'm not blaming this fully on Fritz. Summers is crap and now I see gone. The AD is crap and I hope someday will be gone. The thing I question is wasn't Ellison Upshaw and Breida Monken recruits? What have Fritz's recruits actually done? Also lets not forget that Fritz lost to Georgia State his last year. You point to the recruiting stars but what that means nothing if they don't produce right? You're right Southern would have been better with Cook or Jasper. The thing you also have to remember about bring up Hatcher is that he actually won the 1st couple of years with Sewek players until year 3 when his recruits had to play.
 

lv20gt

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zhavenor said:
I'm not blaming this fully on Fritz. Summers is crap and now I see gone. The AD is crap and I hope someday will be gone. The thing I question is wasn't Ellison Upshaw and Breida Monken recruits? What have Fritz's recruits actually done? Also lets not forget that Fritz lost to Georgia State his last year. You point to the recruiting stars but what that means nothing if they don't produce right? You're right Southern would have been better with Cook or Jasper. The thing you also have to remember about bring up Hatcher is that he actually won the 1st couple of years with Sewek players until year 3 when his recruits had to play.
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The point was even with same talent Summers went backwards in pretty much every way last year. As far as Fritz's own recruits, he was only there two years. The only chance they have had is with a terrible coaching staff that made even established players look bad. They went from rushing for 4700 the last year under Fritz to 2700 the next year and returned damn near everybody. Brieda goes from 1600 yards to 600. Fields regresses. Ellison and Upshaw regress. The offense had no identity and the defense wasn't any better. So no I don't see how you can argue that Fritz's recruiting was an issue when Summers proved that he could mess up even established and proven guys. That's why I bring up stars, because it's utterly stupid to claim talent is the issue when there was a staff that proved it could mess up established talent. We have no way of knowing how good the talent is.

Also what's your point with the State game? Fritz won 9 games and a bowl game. Oh he had one bad loss and you think that somehow compares to 0-6 and losing to an FCS team? Fritz has had success at every stop he has been.

Also Hatcher was 7-4 his first year, which was an improvement over the VanGorder disaster, but 6-5 the year after and 5-6 his last year. Look at any successful GSU coach. Their winning% are 70+ not ~55. Both before and after. But more to the point he continued what VanGorder started and that was scrapping what was the identity of GSU football, and that was the option. The fact that they wanted Cook, but then went out and got the OC from the Hatcher years was absurd, but it goes with the fact that Summers didn't really want to run the option and only did so because he knew at GSU you had to, at least to some degree.
 
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