ACC Bowl Action

[Towaliga]

Now we just need to make sure all the refs are clear.....cause they don't all seem to be on the same page.

While you're at it, can you show them the section that describes what a chop block is?

 

[forensicbuzz]

The "crown" is the top of the head, not the forehead or the top of the facemask. This is the old spearing rule, with added emphasis to protect the guy getting hit. Striking with the facemask in the chest and then sliding up as the tackle is make is not targeting.

 

[CuseJacket]

 

[Yaller Jacket]

For closure, I found a Youtube of the play I wanted to see a helmet to helmet called on. I was wrong about Mike Williams being on the ground. The defender was on the ground, and he was holding Williams stationary by the legs. The D back for Bama came in a second later and hit him helmet to helmet, but he didn't lead with the "crown." The receiver could not move, but he was on his feet and for that reason it wasn't quite a late hit. And if the definition requires the tackler to lead with the front of his helmet, maybe it was just barely legal. But it was definitely dirty, dirty football. A free shot at a helpless ball carrier is what it amounted to.

 

[forensicbuzz]

For closure, I found a Youtube of the play I wanted to see a helmet to helmet called on. I was wrong about Mike Williams being on the ground. The defender was on the ground, and he was holding Williams stationary by the legs. The D back for Bama came in a second later and hit him helmet to helmet, but he didn't lead with the "crown." The receiver could not move, but he was on his feet and for that reason it wasn't quite a late hit. And if the definition requires the tackler to lead with the front of his helmet, maybe it was just barely legal. But it was definitely dirty, dirty football. A free shot at a helpless ball carrier is what it amounted to.

That's called hard-nosed football. If the receiver is held immobile, he can always go down. The object of the game is to hit the other guys as hard as you can so they want to avoid that contact the next time around. That's why players get clobbered going high over the middle. As a DB, you want that receiver to have aligator arms and to be thinking about the lick coming to them when crossing the middle of the field. This game is as much about intimidation as it is skill. All this being said, intent to injure is different than intent to inflict pain. I have zero time for guys that are trying to injure other players, that includes launching themselves. Watch Reuben Foster in Monday's game. He absolutely layed the wood, but wrapped up and drove through the offensive guy. Good fundamental football. (full disclosure, I missed most of the first half, so if there were dirty tackles by RF in the first half, I missed them)

Also, if the offensive guy goes low, there should never be a helmet-to-helmet call made. Fundamentally, players are taught to tackle between the knees and the bottom of the shoulder pads, depending on the situation. I was taught to bury my facemask in the lower chest of the runner, wrap my arms and explode foward and upward, lifting the runner off the ground and driving them backward and to the ground. That's exactly what Gotsis did against UNC. His problem was the height differential caused him to make contact in the middle of the shoulder pads, not the bottom. That was a bad call.

 

[RedPete]

Surprised nobody is talking about the play where DeShan Watson got helicoptered. The hit that spun him around 540* was a helmet to the facemask, and replays showed the Alabama defender launch himself w arms at his sides. It looked like clear-cut targeting form to me, even if he didn't manage to catch Watson on the helmet part of the helmet.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

That's called hard-nosed football. If the receiver is held immobile, he can always go down. The object of the game is to hit the other guys as hard as you can so they want to avoid that contact the next time around. That's why players get clobbered going high over the middle. As a DB, you want that receiver to have aligator arms and to be thinking about the lick coming to them when crossing the middle of the field. This game is as much about intimidation as it is skill. All this being said, intent to injure is different than intent to inflict pain. I have zero time for guys that are trying to injure other players, that includes launching themselves. Watch Reuben Foster in Monday's game. He absolutely layed the wood, but wrapped up and drove through the offensive guy. Good fundamental football. (full disclosure, I missed most of the first half, so if there were dirty tackles by RF in the first half, I missed them)

Also, if the offensive guy goes low, there should never be a helmet-to-helmet call made. Fundamentally, players are taught to tackle between the knees and the bottom of the shoulder pads, depending on the situation. I was taught to bury my facemask in the lower chest of the runner, wrap my arms and explode foward and upward, lifting the runner off the ground and driving them backward and to the ground. That's exactly what Gotsis did against UNC. His problem was the height differential caused him to make contact in the middle of the shoulder pads, not the bottom. That was a bad call.

Imo, it's incumbent on the tackler to be in control and be able to put his body, head, whatever where it needs to be on the target regardless of where the target is. That said, there is, and will always be, incidental head-to-head contact in football. The helmets are big, they're gonna make contact from time to time. It's up the the judgement of the official to decide if it's incidental/unavoidable or on purpose or poor form. The last two should be flagged, imo. The rule is there to lesson the incidence of concussion as well as neck and spinal injuries. It's a good thing. It's good for the tackler's health, too.

 

[jeffgt14]

That's called hard-nosed football. If the receiver is held immobile, he can always go down. The object of the game is to hit the other guys as hard as you can so they want to avoid that contact the next time around. That's why players get clobbered going high over the middle. As a DB, you want that receiver to have aligator arms and to be thinking about the lick coming to them when crossing the middle of the field. This game is as much about intimidation as it is skill. All this being said, intent to injure is different than intent to inflict pain. I have zero time for guys that are trying to injure other players, that includes launching themselves. Watch Reuben Foster in Monday's game. He absolutely layed the wood, but wrapped up and drove through the offensive guy. Good fundamental football. (full disclosure, I missed most of the first half, so if there were dirty tackles by RF in the first half, I missed them)

Also, if the offensive guy goes low, there should never be a helmet-to-helmet call made. Fundamentally, players are taught to tackle between the knees and the bottom of the shoulder pads, depending on the situation. I was taught to bury my facemask in the lower chest of the runner, wrap my arms and explode foward and upward, lifting the runner off the ground and driving them backward and to the ground. That's exactly what Gotsis did against UNC. His problem was the height differential caused him to make contact in the middle of the shoulder pads, not the bottom. That was a bad call.

I fully agree. But if targeting is going to be a rule, then you have to call it. If it’s not intentional helmet to helmet contact (launching with the crown of the helmet which I don’t think this was) then just call the 15 yard penalty and don’t eject the guy. I think they eject players way too much for non-intentional helmet to helmet contact. If you’re nailing a WR over the middle with the intent of making him a little timid for the rest of the game, you should deal with the consequences of a 15 yard penalty on that play. Similar to a pitcher intentionally throwing a fastball inside at a batter who’s crowding the plate. You may hit him and give up a base, but he’ll still be thinking about it next at bat.

 

[Yaller Jacket]

Okay, another issue. I agree with Dabo -- this was no upset. Clemson looked to me to have the better team last year and this year both. Technically, I guess the betting line determines whether it is an upset, but I thought Clemson had the better team all along. For once a game looked very much like I expected it to look. Clemson had umpteen things going on in their offense. Bama depended on overpowering the defense, which works for them 99% of the time. In Clemson they met a team they couldn't overpower and they had little else. A busted coverage and their quarterback tucking and running was about all they had going for them.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Okay, another issue. I agree with Dabo -- this was no upset. Clemson looked to me to have the better team last year and this year both. Technically, I guess the betting line determines whether it is an upset, but I thought Clemson had the better team all along. For once a game looked very much like I expected it to look. Clemson had umpteen things going on in their offense. Bama depended on overpowering the defense, which works for them 99% of the time. In Clemson they met a team they couldn't overpower and they had little else. A busted coverage and their quarterback tucking and running was about all they had going for them.

The only reason they won last year was a miracle onsides kick and two busted coverages by Clemson.

 

[MikeJackets]

The only reason they won last year was a miracle onsides kick and two busted coverages by Clemson.

Clemson would have won in the 2015 Championship Game had it not been for OJ Howard.

 

[COJacket]

Okay, another issue. I agree with Dabo -- this was no upset. Clemson looked to me to have the better team last year and this year both. Technically, I guess the betting line determines whether it is an upset, but I thought Clemson had the better team all along. For once a game looked very much like I expected it to look. Clemson had umpteen things going on in their offense. Bama depended on overpowering the defense, which works for them 99% of the time. In Clemson they met a team they couldn't overpower and they had little else. A busted coverage and their quarterback tucking and running was about all they had going for them.

Agree 110%! Plus, Clemson just wore them down while they kept coming at them hard!

 

[MikeJackets]

Agree 110%! Plus, Clemson just wore them down while they kept coming at them hard!

You have to be damned good to out physical Alabama.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

You have to be damned good to out physical Alabama.

Just like we wore down the mutts in 2014, only to lose the ball on that non-fumble by Justin on a probably ill-conceived play. Score then, like we should have, and no Kick and Pick, but also no biting nails...LOL We also pretty much wore them down in the 4th quarter this year, scoring 14 points in 6 minutes.