ACC AD Meetings - New Revenue Distribution Model?

[CEB]

That’s not exactly true. The word “Only” is a slippery slope.

Leverage, mutually assured destruction, or to take a positive spin... mutual incentive.
Bottom line is what you and @RonJohn are saying - create something of additional value. It would be awesome if we could do something the others can’t replicate... or at least not easily.

 

[RonJohn]

I‘m all for “other“ revenue streams. But realistically … there aren’t any. The only real options are to offer a product with limited direct competition … and that means changing game days where it’s demonstrated the ACC has done much better.

I don't know what those could be either. But that is the difference between some computer programmer and Bill Gates. Come up with something new, exploit that thing, then expand that thing faster than other people do.

 

[Techwood Relict]

That’s not exactly true. The word “Only” is a slippery slope.

This is what happens when a lawyer is stuck in CLE training and posting to entertain himself.....

 

[Randy Carson]

Honestly, I think we are going to get shafted.

I thought that only happened while we were students. Silly me.

 

[Root4GT]

Unless you have different luck than me, Thursday night NFL games are terrible. Almost any Thursday NFL game I’ve watched, I swapped to a college game within the first quarter.

The NFL upped the quality of Thursday night games for 2023
NFL Thursday night schedule 2023

 

[airspace]

This is just me, but for all the doubters whether GT ends up in a power conference, it's real simple to me. The Big wants to be the National Conference in CFB, they want media mkts and they require AAU membership. IMO the BIG will come down the eastern US with acquisitions of schools, and they definitely want in FL (loaded with people from the BIG 10 states) it is apparent to me they will want the 7th biggest media mkt in the country. They have stated media mkts are important to them. GT is AAU, sits in the heart of 7th largest media mkt, our Pres has made a commitment to GT FB winning at the highest level. There is presently not another school that fits what they want in Georgia, I don't think they want to skip over Georgia, not to say they won't, but I'm expecting us to do what needs to be done to make them not want to skip over Georgia. Commitment from our Pres, and hiring of a really good fund raiser as AD was a necessary beginning and shows our commitment. Now we have to raise some $ it appears, get out of the GOR or the ACC and that is the "granddaddy" problem now and also for all the other schools the Big 10 wants coming down the east coast. Will it get solved? It has to somehow or there are some really big athletic programs that will become irrelevant in the future. I just think that is not going to happen, way too much money involved. There are 7 schools that are together on this, do they stick together going fwd, don't know but I think there is the eighth school that could join them in either GT or possibly ND. I imagine both ND and GT would have to have an invite in hand (might be silent) in order to join the seven. It would definitely help if we can get our FB program winning and successful again, but I do not believe this is a necessity.
CFB is very fan emotional and I find so many look at it through those emotional eyes, but conference realignment is 100% about business and it better be at the decision level.

There are 7 schools that are together on this, do they stick together going fwd, don't know but I think there is the eighth school that could join them in either GT or possibly ND. I imagine both ND and GT would have to have an invite in hand (might be silent) in order to join the seven.

My question to you and the Georgia Tech faithful - Has your administration reached out to the Big Ten? Nobody would know, since these things are not talked about publicly. Th Big Ten does not contact the school, the school contacts the Big Ten. It is kabuki theater in that the school asks certain hypothetical questions of the Big Ten offices and the Big Ten gives certain non-committal answers back. Typically, the Big Ten (University Presidents - they run the conference) is not in the business of humiliating peers (particulary places like GT).

If I was Georgia Tech, I would be right now trying to find people at Georgia Tech who had good contacts at Big Ten schools or contacting former Georgia Tech people at Big Ten schools to get the ball rolling. That is what Penn State did.

It is all hypothetical at this point given the GOR. But if the ACC blows up, you would hope to have a contingency plan in place.

 

[CEB]

There are 7 schools that are together on this, do they stick together going fwd, don't know but I think there is the eighth school that could join them in either GT or possibly ND. I imagine both ND and GT would have to have an invite in hand (might be silent) in order to join the seven.

My question to you and the Georgia Tech faithful - Has your administration reached out to the Big Ten? Nobody would know, since these things are not talked about publicly. Th Big Ten does not contact the school, the school contacts the Big Ten. It is kabuki theater in that the school asks certain hypothetical questions of the Big Ten offices and the Big Ten gives certain non-committal answers back. Typically, the Big Ten (University Presidents - they run the conference) is not in the business of humiliating peers (particulary places like GT).

If I was Georgia Tech, I would be right now trying to find people at Georgia Tech who had good contacts at Big Ten schools or contacting former Georgia Tech people at Big Ten schools to get the ball rolling. That is what Penn State did.

It is all hypothetical at this point given the GOR. But if the ACC blows up, you would hope to have a contingency plan in place.

My hope (and it’s purely hope... no knowledge of anything) is that GT very diligently weighed its last opportunity and very gracefully and humbly declined, believing (rightly or wrongly) the ACC was the proper place and in the best interest of GT at that time. Upon declining, I hope we expressed our gratitude and continued interest in partnering with the BIG if circumstances were to change, and I hope we continued to reiterate that periodically over the last few years.
And mostly, I hope that the circumstances that changed don’t impact the interest the BIG initially expressed in us. I hope our complete silence on the matter is confidence, not confoundedness.

 

[cpf2001]

The NFL upped the quality of Thursday night games for 2023
NFL Thursday night schedule 2023

They stuck them on Amazon though, so that could be a big opportunity to get folks who aren't on the "get every single streaming option" train, or who look first at their cable TV guide.

 

[RonJohn]

There are 7 schools that are together on this, do they stick together going fwd, don't know but I think there is the eighth school that could join them in either GT or possibly ND. I imagine both ND and GT would have to have an invite in hand (might be silent) in order to join the seven.

My question to you and the Georgia Tech faithful - Has your administration reached out to the Big Ten? Nobody would know, since these things are not talked about publicly. Th Big Ten does not contact the school, the school contacts the Big Ten. It is kabuki theater in that the school asks certain hypothetical questions of the Big Ten offices and the Big Ten gives certain non-committal answers back. Typically, the Big Ten (University Presidents - they run the conference) is not in the business of humiliating peers (particulary places like GT).

If I was Georgia Tech, I would be right now trying to find people at Georgia Tech who had good contacts at Big Ten schools or contacting former Georgia Tech people at Big Ten schools to get the ball rolling. That is what Penn State did.

It is all hypothetical at this point given the GOR. But if the ACC blows up, you would hope to have a contingency plan in place.

Where does everyone get the idea that it only takes 8 votes to end either the GOR or the ACC? I think the contracts take at least 12 to end the conference, and all members to end the GOR.

 

[CEB]

Where does everyone get the idea that it only takes 8 votes to end either the GOR or the ACC? I think the contracts take at least 12 to end the conference, and all members to end the GOR.

The easy answer, which I think is mostly right: internet rumor, no basis in fact, repeated enough to be accepted... on the internet.

Plausible better answer; FSU folks have been tossing this around for a while. They have supposedly had attorneys devoted to figuring it out and their AD being outspoken about such matters. Maybe their attorney, doing attorney things, found some case law that supported a
simple majority voiding a similar agreement and for the purposes of forcing someone’s hand, started putting that narrative out there.

I’m with you; as far as ACC agreements go, I have seen matters requiring 2/3 (10 teams), 3/4 (12 teams) and unanimous approvals... nothing suggests 8 teams can do anything.

 

[airspace]

The easy answer, which I think is mostly right: internet rumor, no basis in fact, repeated enough to be accepted... on the internet.

Plausible better answer; FSU folks have been tossing this around for a while. They have supposedly had attorneys devoted to figuring it out and their AD being outspoken about such matters. Maybe their attorney, doing attorney things, found some case law that supported a
simple majority voiding a similar agreement and for the purposes of forcing someone’s hand, started putting that narrative out there.

I’m with you; as far as ACC agreements go, I have seen matters requiring 2/3 (10 teams), 3/4 (12 teams) and unanimous approvals... nothing suggests 8 teams can do anything.

If there becomes a gap between the Big 12 and the ACC, with the Big 12 earning more money and increasing. You might (probably) have certain schools destined for the Big 12 wanting to dissolve the ACC and get while the getting is good. If at that point, you know certain schools are going to go anyway (when the time comes), why not if you are Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, BC or others take a Big 12 invite while it is good. The alternative is to hold the bag (ask U Conn how that is working out).

 

[RonJohn]

If there becomes a gap between the Big 12 and the ACC, with the Big 12 earning more money and increasing. You might (probably) have certain schools destined for the Big 12 wanting to dissolve the ACC and get while the getting is good. If at that point, you know certain schools are going to go anyway (when the time comes), why not if you are Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, BC or others take a Big 12 invite while it is good. The alternative is to hold the bag (ask U Conn how that is working out).

But that doesn't answer how the number of schools required is only 8, as opposed to twelve which is what the actual acc constitution says.

EDIT: Then at that point it isn't about finding one more school, it is about finding five more schools. Basically the entire conference.

 

[bobongo]

But that doesn't answer how the number of schools required is only 8, as opposed to twelve which is what the actual acc constitution says.

EDIT: Then at that point it isn't about finding one more school, it is about finding five more schools. Basically the entire conference.

Soo...6 go to the B1G and 6 go to the Big 12. Or 7 go to the B1G and 5 go to the Big 12. Or some combination of 12. Voila, no more ACC.
Is there a tampering/collusion lawsuit in there somewhere? The 4 left behind aren't going to be happy.

 

[RonJohn]

Soo...6 go to the B1G and 6 go to the Big 12. Or 7 go to the B1G and 5 go to the Big 12. Or some combination of 12. Voila, no more ACC.
Is there a tampering/collusion lawsuit in there somewhere? The 4 left behind aren't going to be happy.

There is also the ESPN contract with the ACC that I don't think has ever been leaked, do nobody knows what impact it could have on schools that leave the conference.

Even if you get the twelve votes to end the conference, like you started I'm sure there would be legal actions that would at least complicate things. My biggest gripe is the current narrative that eight teams can vote to end all of the contracts. I haven't seen any plausible explanation of that. It is just a lot of people venting and repeating the same false statements.

 

[orientalnc]

But that doesn't answer how the number of schools required is only 8, as opposed to twelve which is what the actual acc constitution says.

EDIT: Then at that point it isn't about finding one more school, it is about finding five more schools. Basically the entire conference.

I don't question your reading of the ACC Bylaws or the ESPN agreement or the GOR. I am starting to believe there is almost universal agreement that the ACC is not going to survive and the GOR is the reason. What seemed certain to hold everyone together is actually the problem at this point. That and the ESPN agreement. Are the six remaining schools, plus ND, going to fight the eight and have an embittered conference just waiting for 2036? I think no one wants that. How do you promote the conference and negotiate for anything?

 

[cpf2001]

I don't think 8 can do anything, but if you've got 7 who already want to blow it up in 2023, and 13 whole years to go... can't be good odds of making it all 13 years without reaching 12 schools ready to end it.

Question is what's posturing and what isn't, and what sort of results you can get from just convincing people that you are close to having enough schools to blow it up vs actually needing to do it. I still wouldn't be surprised to see an endgame along these lines - some different revenue splits, some renegotiated media rights - just caused by enough other parties (including ESPN) believing there's a real chance of a worse alternative. That'd save everyone a lot of lawsuit headaches.

The length of the ESPN agreement is basically a slow-acting poison right now. I think for a school like GT, the GOR is probably good, though (unless there's an open B1G invite already still). Otherwise the schools doing better right now could leave without helping arrange a soft landing for enough others to get the ball rolling despite the GOR.

 

[CEB]

If there becomes a gap between the Big 12 and the ACC, with the Big 12 earning more money and increasing. You might (probably) have certain schools destined for the Big 12 wanting to dissolve the ACC and get while the getting is good. If at that point, you know certain schools are going to go anyway (when the time comes), why not if you are Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, BC or others take a Big 12 invite while it is good. The alternative is to hold the bag (ask U Conn how that is working out).

but the problem isn’t ENTIRELY the “gap.” That’s what everyone is focused on, but the reality isn’t the $5m annual gap with the B12 or the $25m annual gap with the SEC. It’s that “gap” PLUS the $35m you walk away from, PLUS the fact that you don’t have rights to market your media, PLUS the penalty fee you pay to leave. You’re starting out in an annual $40m+ hole and you have nothing to sell! If staying in the ACC is a slow painful death, then leaving it is a bullet to the temple.

Until GOR is unraveled or in 8-10 years when the end can actually be assigned value, there is not a simple way out.

Not to mention, everyone is comparing last years ACC payouts to the five year projection of the other conferences. The ACC is not keeping up, and the gap is going to widen between us and the BIG / SEC, but I don’t think it really is as bad as it’s being presented.

 

[CEB]

I don't question your reading of the ACC Bylaws or the ESPN agreement or the GOR. I am starting to believe there is almost universal agreement that the ACC is not going to survive and the GOR is the reason. What seemed certain to hold everyone together is actually the problem at this point. That and the ESPN agreement. Are the six remaining schools, plus ND, going to fight the eight and have an embittered conference just waiting for 2036? I think no one wants that. How do you promote the conference and negotiate for anything?

I agree no one wants that, but if that’s the inevitable conclusion, you have a handful of athletic programs literally fighting for survival. They will need to be compensated to go away or they will cling to their existence as long as they can. If the money gets so big that they can be bought off, so be it. Prior to that, why would they accelerate their own demise for the benefit of those with no loyalty to them?
I’m really not gloom and doom for the “leftovers.” I don’t think killing 2/3 of D1 athletics is a profitable venture. But I also don’t see programs standing by and allowing it to accelerate if they have contractual protections

 

[RonJohn]

Question is what's posturing and what isn't, and what sort of results you can get from just convincing people that you are close to having enough schools to blow it up vs actually needing to do it.

What is posturing, what isn't? But you have to add: What is just made up crap from blowhards on Twitter who want attention.

 

[RonJohn]

I don't question your reading of the ACC Bylaws or the ESPN agreement or the GOR. I am starting to believe there is almost universal agreement that the ACC is not going to survive and the GOR is the reason. What seemed certain to hold everyone together is actually the problem at this point. That and the ESPN agreement. Are the six remaining schools, plus ND, going to fight the eight and have an embittered conference just waiting for 2036? I think no one wants that. How do you promote the conference and negotiate for anything?

The ACC might not survive. I don't think it will dissolve until much closer to the end of the current contracts. Probably early 2030s at the earliest.

In 8-10 years, we don't know what the landscape of college football will be. 10 years ago the SEC West owned the SEC East. The only question was which East team was going to get pounded in the championship game. Stanford was in the middle of a six year stretch, four of which they finished the season in the to ten. Going back even further the SEC East dominated the SEC with Tennessee and Florida.

I'm not predicting that the ACC will be making more money, nor will be marketed as well as the SEC in ten years.
However, we don't know who the best teams in the ACC will be at that point. Will Dabo still be at Clemson? If not will they drop off when he leaves? Will GT be better? Will Louisville be better? Will the old man still be at UNC?
Will the ACC, Big12, and Pac12 do something like a spring tournament to get more revenue without inviting the Big10, and SEC? (Not predicting that, just coming up with a way for them to get more revenue)
Ten years is a long time. The one thing I know for certain is that I can't predict with any certainty exactly how things will be that far out on the future.