A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons

[gt02]

2022 may be fine for the W/L record. But the question is what metrics do we use to evaluate his efforts now? I am not judging off W/L. But I am judging the decision making.

Answering my own question - perhaps I am also looking at the wrong metrics. It may that the only way to evaluate CGC is based on (1) his recruiting/branding; and (2) his decision making in hiring assistants. If we are truly employing the Dabo model, then his decision making now should not be as big of a concern. Now if that is truly why we hired him, I worry about #2, because GT will never be able to hire the top assistants, but that is a different issue.

And ultimately, at some point, W/L overrides all criteria. We are not there yet though.

 

[takethepoints]

Kirvonte Benson being healthy that season was NOT worth 2 more wins

Jesus Christ!

He was averaging 10 YPC when he got hurt against UCF; he stays healthy and we win. We beat Pitt with him at BB; they won 24 - 19, largely because Howard and Mason didn't know what they were doing yet. There you go.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

This doesn't make sense. If it was our system that the players hated then that has changed and Collins should be able to compete. Many of the schools that get 5* talent had coaching changes before current 8th graders graduated and I don't think any schools are aware of who the best 8th grade player is in the nation.


In 2016 we were 9-4 with wins over UGA, a ranked VA Tech, and a bowl win over Kentucky. I'd say that is pretty good. If you were meaning the 2017-2020 seasons as 4 years then I agree with you, but keep in mind Collins owns 50% of those.

My fear with Collins is that he won't win even when he gets a team full of his recruits. I have seen nothing to demonstrate that he is more than a talker with a pedestrian coaching mind.

I get you, but the schools who get 5 stars can do it thru coaching changes because they have a known brand regardless. GT hasn’t been known for putting guys in the NFL for 12 plus years. That means high end players of today were less than 5 years old. So when a guy like Gibbs signs he’s taking the advice of those around him and belief in the future because he sure has nothing to look at on the GT NFL resume at the RB position. The factories could change coaches tomorrow and they’ll still get the studs. I believe Collins is and will build back the relationships with high school coaches and we’ll see more studs signing. But it takes more than 1 recruiting class.

And what could Collins show you to demonstrate he is more than a talker? We stink right now and are remaking the entire program. Heck, new fans could have said the same thing about Johnson those last few years if they didn’t look at his history. And a lot of successful coaches have pedestrian minds. They just get good players. Kirby sure doesn’t appear to be a genius. We had our own in Bobby Cremins. No one would confuse him as an X’s and O’s genius. But the guy got stud players and got out of their way. We’ve had a baseball coach for 20plus years who recruits off Perfect Game rankings then does little else other than fill out the lineup. And he’s won a lot of games and gets out coached a lot.

 

[Ibeeballin]

He was averaging 10 YPC when he got hurt against UCF; he stays healthy and we win. We beat Pitt with him at BB; they won 24 - 19, largely because Howard and Mason didn't know what they were doing yet. There you go.

KB never avg 10yds vs UCF

 

[slugboy]

Answering my own question - perhaps I am also looking at the wrong metrics. It may that the only way to evaluate CGC is based on (1) his recruiting/branding; and (2) his decision making in hiring assistants. If we are truly employing the Dabo model, then his decision making now should not be as big of a concern. Now if that is truly why we hired him, I worry about #2, because GT will never be able to hire the top assistants, but that is a different issue.

And ultimately, at some point, W/L overrides all criteria. We are not there yet though.

I’m not sure. Most teams that turn around and go places show signs in year 2. We’re a big turnaround though.
I’d want to see SOME positives on the lines in our last four games.
I’d want to see a flash outside of Sims and the running backs
Watch the lines each game and see if they’re getting better

 

[4shotB]

I have several questions - The one thing that does seem curious to me is that, to my untrained eye, we are guilty of more false starts than what we are actually flagged for. Question 1 - does anyone else think this? I seem to see movement on very many of our plays. I never played OL nor coached it but it seems like this is an (relatively) easy fix. My other questions - 2) Are we so overmatched physically that are guys are jumpy? 3) Is it QB cadence? 4) is this really an easy fix for a coach?

I know I am joined by a lot of other old, fat guys here on this site. A handful of whom are former OL and/or have background in coaching. What do y'all think? You can answer even if you aren't fat or old but I am most interested in those who have coached the position or played it. Thanks, I will hang up and listen.

 

[takethepoints]

KB never avg 10yds vs UCF

You're right. It was 8.2 ypc. See:

https://data.ramblinwreck.com/stats/football/2018/gt090818.htm

Mason did ok in relief, but I bet Benson would have done even better if he had continued to play. And I bet we would have won. Almost did anyway.

 

[takethepoints]

I’d want to see a flash outside of Sims and the running backs

Yesssss. Why isn't Sims running the ball more? If he could establish a run threat the entire offense would work better. I understand why they want to protect him against injury, but the best way to do that is to get the D back on their heels a bit by letting him run the occasional draw/QB sweep/double option (outside and midline). As it is, we are way too predictable. He's a big guy; might as well give him a chance to show what he can do.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

We did early then he got whacked several times and I can only assume they are playing it safe with him. He is sliding a lot more and looking for the sideline faster than he did the first few games. It’s a long play right now with him. If he gets knocked out then he loses valuable experience. We also ran the gauntlet where we weren’t winning those games anyway so protect him. I would like to think in these last 4 winnable games that they let him,play more aggressively. But what we need most is a full healthy off season and spring.

 

[gt02]

I’m not sure. Most teams that turn around and go places show signs in year 2. We’re a big turnaround though.
I’d want to see SOME positives on the lines in our last four games.
I’d want to see a flash outside of Sims and the running backs
Watch the lines each game and see if they’re getting better

Well, I guess that is my point. What is CGC's role? If it truly is the Dabo model, and we do not see the signs (like what you mention above), under the Dabo model that is not really an indictment on the head coach as much as it is on the assistants, right? And like I said, ultimately the buck stops with him. But we are not close to that point yet.

 

[JacketOff]

I have several questions - The one thing that does seem curious to me is that, to my untrained eye, we are guilty of more false starts than what we are actually flagged for. Question 1 - does anyone else think this? I seem to see movement on very many of our plays. I never played OL nor coached it but it seems like this is an (relatively) easy fix. My other questions - 2) Are we so overmatched physically that are guys are jumpy? 3) Is it QB cadence? 4) is this really an easy fix for a coach?

I know I am joined by a lot of other old, fat guys here on this site. A handful of whom are former OL and/or have background in coaching. What do y'all think? You can answer even if you aren't fat or old but I am most interested in those who have coached the position or played it. Thanks, I will hang up and listen.

I think Williams is getting a slight head start on nearly every play. Some say it only looks that way because he has quick feet, but that doesn’t add up to me. If his feet were so quick he wouldn’t need to be getting a head start, and he’d be able to match up better against older and stronger DL. Along with what seems to be an early start, his drop step seems to very deep compared to most tackles. I don’t know if that’s the way he’s being coached, or if he feels like he needs to give himself a little bit more room to work to compensate for his mismatches. Williams has been solid though. He’ll make for a pretty good OT by the time his career is over. He’s one of the few true freshman who start for a P5 OL, and the learning curve is rather massive. I’m curious of who will take Defoor and Johnson’s guard spots in next year’s OL if they don’t come back.

 

[TampaGT]

You're right. It was 8.2 ypc. See:

https://data.ramblinwreck.com/stats/football/2018/gt090818.htm

Mason did ok in relief, but I bet Benson would have done even better if he had continued to play. And I bet we would have won. Almost did anyway.

I think you put the wrong team in your first quote you put UCF instead of saying USF.

 

[Pointer]

We did early then he got whacked several times and I can only assume they are playing it safe with him. He is sliding a lot more and looking for the sideline faster than he did the first few games. It’s a long play right now with him. If he gets knocked out then he loses valuable experience. We also ran the gauntlet where we weren’t winning those games anyway so protect him. I would like to think in these last 4 winnable games that they let him,play more aggressively. But what we need most is a full healthy off season and spring.

So you think we were focused most in keeping Sims healthy through the gauntlet in our schedule?

 

[takethepoints]

I think you put the wrong team in your first quote you put UCF instead of saying USF.

Right. My bad.

 

[zzzboy25]

Recruiting is becoming the only positive aspect we can latch on to with CGC. First of all, talking offensively, I hear these excuses that are OL is to small and only know how to chop block, so if that's the case, use what we have, meaning, I remember my NFL team back in the day: The Broncos with Mike Shanahan: The running game was unprecedented, who ever they struct in their looked great. So if the OL is small, use their speed and endurance, because their smaller than those bigger DL, and we have a stable of backs, Spread the field out use a faster pace of play calling keep the defense running and kill them by rotating the backs and create one on one match ups. That's coaching to me, instead of saying Our guys are to small and then continuing running one and maybe two back up the middle continuously!! I maybe wrong....

 

[zzzboy25]

I‘m not sure Geoff is focused on winning. I never understood the “let’s wait til I get my guys in” argument. I was expected to deliver with what I had.

How did that work with the bulls ownership: after letting go that 6-0 Championship team go" Let's wait till I get my guys"! I hate that statement by a coach. Use what you have then added pieces. The falcon's I heard had all number #1 draft picks on their line.. How is that working????

 

[Deleted member 2897]

A chance to actually see the fruits of improved recruiting. As a GT fan you should probably be able to do the math.



The hell kind of nonsense is this is this? First off, Johnson has 3 losing seasons, year 3, year 8, and year 10. BTW year 12 was a year where we were losing the 11th highest % of production coming off of 7 wins so there is a good chance that would have been a 4th.

Second. His decade of bad defenses weren't the breaks or bad luck. Nor was the decade of bad passing or bad recruiting. But hey. Those things were never his fault. It was the AD. Or the hill. or the Acc. Or the NCAA. or the weather. or God. It was always something but never Johnson.

Third, when we hired Johnson in late 2007 we were told that if we ever went away from the option it'd be a complete..... show. A decade later when he left it was against told to us. We were told that our OL was completely unfit to run the offense we were going for. People stuck their head in the sands and pretended that wasn't the case. Now, despite our OL looking like they had no clue what to do in year one, and desperately trying to get transfers and freshmen to fill the cracks in year 2, people will say it's bad coaching and refuse to admit what laid out in front of their eyes. Numerous places told us the QBs we had wouldn't fit the new offense. People will still deny this despite what we saw last year and despite that a true freshman who clearly isn't ready for the responsibility he is being asked to carry is a clear upgrade over what we had. It was pointed out numerous times our WRs were at best unproven and not used to running the types of routes they would need in the new offense. Lo and behold our best WR in year one is a true freshman who committed after the new staff came in. But people still won't acknowledge that. We had no TEs at all. Defensively we were bad for a decade with poor recruiting, and outside issues at DL and were bad despite an offense that ate time to try to mask the issues somewhat. None of our struggles came out of the blue. We were all told this would happen, and some just didn't want to accept it. Those that didn't want to accept it, and still don't accept that are the ones with their heads in the sand.

Hell, I bet we'd look a hell of a lot better if we had inherited 4 future NFL DLmen, a WR who would go on to be the best WR in the NFL, a RB who was probably the best we had seen in two decades, a QB who was a great fit for the offense. Unfortunately he didn't. But hey. He did inherit a real gem of a punter. That has to count for something right?



How about you do some critical thinking yourself for once and figure how long it takes to recruit and develop a class? The math really aint that hard.

People forget 2 things:
1) We were predicted to win 0 or 1 FBS game last year
2) We were not predicted to win any games this year at all.

Our performance is not a surprise. Yes, it is disappointing and frustrating, but the media predicted these results. They didn’t predict us to win 4-8 games and now they are like “wow is CGC bad”. That’s not what’s going on.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

How did that work with the bulls ownership: after letting go that 6-0 Championship team go" Let's wait till I get my guys"! I hate that statement by a coach. Use what you have then added pieces. The falcon's I heard had all number #1 draft picks on their line.. How is that working????

That’s not an accurate comparison. A better comparison would be that you were left with five guards and were going to play a Dean Smith four corners offense, and then you bring in a new coach who is going to play a traditional offense with the old roster.

CGC could have kept playing a four corners offense, but he decided to rip the Band-Aid off and deal with the ramifications of fewer wins in the short term, but a higher level of recruiting and better results quicker in the long run.

 

[Pointer]

People forget 2 things:
1) We were predicted to win 0 or 1 FBS game last year
2) We were not predicted to win any games this year at all.

Our performance is not a surprise. Yes, it is disappointing and frustrating, but the media predicted these results. They didn’t predict us to win 4-8 games and now they are like “wow is CGC bad”. That’s not what’s going on.

Last time I checked the media doesn't play or coach the game so it take doesn't matter what they think.

They've also been quite wedding about this Tech team over and over for the past decade.

 

[jacketup]

Most of the posters who are questioning Collins have in common that they measure the team by watching the ball when Tech is on offense. There is a lot more to the game than that.

I wish they had sat with me at the ND game. I intentionally sat as close to the field as I could during the first half to watch line play close up. However, the thing that struck me was the comparative speed on defense. ND was so much faster than Tech, something that is not as noticeable on TV. Of course, it also helps make a team look faster when the DL is keeping blockers off the LBs.

This isn't surprising. We lost 8 starters on D from Johnson's last year--then we lost Adams. Johnson didn't leave behind a lot of underclassmen to back fill the graduates from his last year on the defensive front--and if you don't believe me, look at the ATL chart.

The idea that Johnson would have had substantially more success in 2019 and 2020 is view that is singularly focused on the offense. The defense likely would have been his worst yet, and we didn't exactly have great defenses under Johnson.