A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons

[Milwaukee]

 

[SteamWhistle]

We’ve had 3 freshmen play a meaningful role. I’d like to see Brooks, Ivey, Meiguez get more burn.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I think the Hill has effected recruitment more than people realize. One of the reasons Ross, O’Leary, And CPJ left. May have influenced Gaileys departure. I have a hunch they have given Collins more of a free reign. If not, we will be in a perpetual cycle. One of the reasons the top 8-10 programs just reload every year. It’s one thing to want a defense like Clemson, Alabama, or Georgia. But will we let them in and keep them eligible?

 

[4shotB]

I think the Hill has effected recruitment more than people realize. One of the reasons Ross, O’Leary, And CPJ left. May have influenced Gaileys departure. I have a hunch they have given Collins more of a free reign. If not, we will be in a perpetual cycle. One of the reasons the top 8-10 programs just reload every year. It’s one thing to want a defense like Clemson, Alabama, or Georgia. But will we let them in and keep them eligible?

On a side note, Ga's defense gave up 44 points yesterday. Clemson's 47 points. I know COVID has impacted practicing and participation, but the college game is changing (has changed?) beyond belief. It's gotten to the point of the NFL - if you don't have a top shelf QB you aren't going to be relevant. The guys who could manage the game and pull off the 13 - 10 grind it out type of slugfests are extinct. And speaking of bad QB's - did anyone see Uga/UF? Those guys (Uga's QB's) look like someone recruited them off the intramurals field. Their passing game looked like ours over the past 12 years or so.

 

[stech81]

. And speaking of bad QB's - did anyone see Uga/UF? Those guys (Uga's QB's) look like someone recruited them off the intramurals field. Their passing game looked like ours over the past 12 years or so.

I don't like or care for Ohio State but if it pisses off uga I hope Field's look great this year .

 

[4shotB]

I don't like or care for Ohio State but if it pisses off uga I hope Field's look great this year .

Fields is okay I guess if having the highest rating (QBR) in the NCAA meets your definition of okay. I guess I am aware of this stuff because my brother is an OSU grad. the nice thing about the transfer rules is that you no longer have to wait 2-4 years to recruit and develop a guy. You just go get a "ready to start" guy and plug him in. If I am the guy who is behind the FR who started for Clemson last night, or a Clemson QB recruit for the next cycle, I am packing my bags and departing upstate SC. That guy looks like he could become as good as Lawrence is. Which is saying a lot.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Yes Lee, I am a fan. Forgive me if I do not have gold colored glasses this year.

I expected Tech to win 6 games this season. And I expected the team to be overall improved over last season. I expected to see game to game improvement.

To say I or 8-10 others are actively rooting against CGC is debatable.

I desperately want to see him succeed. I actually enjoy watching Tech win.

But there are those on this board that tell me that is not a barometer for CGC. Wins are not important. For some reason, all the loses the past two years are CPJ's fault. And CGC cannot be held responsible for the teams performance.

As a fan I suffered through Pepper Rogers, Bill Curry, Bobby Ross, B*** L****, George O'Leary, Chan Gaily. Their first years were not always impressive. But I worry this team is more like the B*** L**** teams than the others. I expected this coaching staff to produce miracles. I bought into all of CGC's hype. That the team would compete with the teams on a tough schedule.

The loss to Clemson was historic. The defense is not improved over last year. Maybe others have seen it, but there has been no game to game improvement. With 4 games to go, maybe we will see something to make me eat my words. I hope so. But each of those coaches was held responsible for the teams performance. And the wins and loses.

Your predictions for the next two years would be great. However, my expectation for next year would be a minimum of 6 wins and a bowl game.

You do realize your expectations don’t mean anything right? I’m not trying to be mean, but my expectations mean nothing as well. Listen, if. Collins continues to lose he’ll be gone at some point. As you pointed out, you’ve been a fan a long time. We’ve seen all of this before, none of this is new so why act like the end of the world is upon us. Our team stinks right now, today. That takes nothing away from the past and means nothing for the future. It just means right now, we stink. We’ve seen this before.

The question we all are having internally is where is this stinking leading us? Ross’s team stunk then gave us an incredible unexpected season. Johnson was great, until he wasn’t. There are reasons for all it.

My inner conversations as I watch the game tells me that we have a pulse and aren’t dead. I can see where Collins is trying take us. Many don’t like his rah rah stuff. I get it. But, if he were honest during his press conferences then GT fans would be upset that he’s throwing players and Johnson under the bus. He isn’t allowed to be honest so of course the rah rah stuff seems laughable when we are getting our teeth kicked in. I can promise you the young players know why we stink and they just have to wait it out it. And if it is determined the problem is Collins then he’ll be gone. But, I could also see with 2 more classes of big bodies and additional players like Brown and Gibbs being added that we’ll be pretty darn competitive.

 

[Lee]

Yes Lee, I am a fan. Forgive me if I do not have gold colored glasses this year.

I expected Tech to win 6 games this season. And I expected the team to be overall improved over last season. I expected to see game to game improvement.

To say I or 8-10 others are actively rooting against CGC is debatable.

I desperately want to see him succeed. I actually enjoy watching Tech win.

But there are those on this board that tell me that is not a barometer for CGC. Wins are not important. For some reason, all the loses the past two years are CPJ's fault. And CGC cannot be held responsible for the teams performance.

As a fan I suffered through Pepper Rogers, Bill Curry, Bobby Ross, B*** L****, George O'Leary, Chan Gaily. Their first years were not always impressive. But I worry this team is more like the B*** L**** teams than the others. I expected this coaching staff to produce miracles. I bought into all of CGC's hype. That the team would compete with the teams on a tough schedule.

The loss to Clemson was historic. The defense is not improved over last year. Maybe others have seen it, but there has been no game to game improvement. With 4 games to go, maybe we will see something to make me eat my words. I hope so. But each of those coaches was held responsible for the teams performance. And the wins and loses.

Your predictions for the next two years would be great. However, my expectation for next year would be a minimum of 6 wins and a bowl game.

The bolder parts stuck out to me so I’ll address them.

Somebody has already addressed it, but your expectations are your problem. Nobody with any feel on college football and GT specifically was predicting 6 wins as an expectation. Especially when the schedule changed and removed a cupcake from our schedule. I was hoping for 5-6 wins but mine along with almost everyone else was significantly less (hence the last place predications).

The team has improved in many areas over last year. I laid this out in another post so I won’t do it again here. You’re welcome to look that up and refute any of my observations. The game to game improvement you may have a point on, but that’s hard to tell as well because we’ve played 3 really good teams in a row.

The last bolder part tells me who you are as a fan. You “suffered” through all those coaches. One of which won a national championship and another beat the dwags 3 years in a row. Yet not mention of suffering through the last coach.

Nobody likes losing. It sucks. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. We are past the worse and trending towards getting better.

Lastly, your prediction for next year isn’t much different than mine. My floor is one win less than yours. Based on a limited amount of data (this years expectations), I feel pretty good about what I said.

 

[techman]

Anybody have any insight into what ex GT coach Paul Johnson is doing these days? Is he considering any return in some football capacity?

 

[TheTechGuy]

Playing golf, enjoying his time in NC, playing some cards, and watching our football program with varying degrees of concern and amusement is my “guess.”

 

[jacket_fan]

The bolder parts stuck out to me so I’ll address them.

Somebody has already addressed it, but your expectations are your problem. Nobody with any feel on college football and GT specifically was predicting 6 wins as an expectation. Especially when the schedule changed and removed a cupcake from our schedule. I was hoping for 5-6 wins but mine along with almost everyone else was significantly less (hence the last place predications).

The team has improved in many areas over last year. I laid this out in another post so I won’t do it again here. You’re welcome to look that up and refute any of my observations. The game to game improvement you may have a point on, but that’s hard to tell as well because we’ve played 3 really good teams in a row.

The last bolder part tells me who you are as a fan. You “suffered” through all those coaches. One of which won a national championship and another beat the dwags 3 years in a row. Yet not mention of suffering through the last coach.

Nobody likes losing. It sucks. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. We are past the worse and trending towards getting better.

Lastly, your prediction for next year isn’t much different than mine. My floor is one win less than yours. Based on a limited amount of data (this years expectations), I feel pretty good about what I said.

Who am I as a fan? Not sure the point you are trying to make.

The point I was trying to make is that the first couple of seasons of those coaches were not spectacular either.

By the way, CGC expected to go to a bowl game this year, ergo I only echoed his expectation for the season.

 

[CuseJacket]

I feel like the hypothetical question posed here is one reason for feelings toward CPJ vs. CGC, despite the same overall record. Obviously there are other differentiators between the two, but fans generally care more about offense than defense.

 

[JacketOff]

I feel like the hypothetical question posed here is one reason for feelings toward CPJ vs. CGC, despite the same overall record. Obviously there are other differentiators between the two, but fans generally care more about offense than defense.

I think this is a great hypothetical, but in terms of CPJ vs. CGC I think defense is the critical point, especially with CGC being touted as a defensive minded coach. As others have pointed out, the 3O limited opponent’s possessions, therefore giving them fewer opportunities to score points. The new offense doesn’t do that, so teams are routinely putting up more points than they did against CPJ led teams, making defensive performances look much worse, even if the points per drive outputs were the same. The 45 points Georgia scored, the 49 Clemson scored, and the 34 Minnesota scored in 2018 really aren’t all that different materially than the 73 Clemson scored this year. It all boils down to number of possessions and time of possession.

The 2018 Clemson game is the greatest example. Tech held the ball for 13 minutes(!!) longer than Clemson. But still allowed 49 points and got beat by 4 touchdowns. Clemson only had 9 3rd downs the entire game. In 2020, Clemson had the ball almost 12 minutes longer than Tech, and had 17 3rd downs. So really, the defense played just as good, if not better, against Clemson in 2020 than they did in 2018.

A lot of the blowout losses that Tech has suffered since CGC took over are just the materialization of transitioning the offense from a “death march” mentality into a modern up-tempo one. The offensive production has went down, and defensive performance has stayed relatively the same, but because of the increase in opponents’ possessions the defensive performance looks much worse compared to the CPJ era. If the defensive team that played against Clemson in 2018 would’ve played them in 2020, Clemson might’ve actually put up 100.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I think this is a great hypothetical, but in terms of CPJ vs. CGC I think defense is the critical point, especially with CGC being touted as a defensive minded coach. As others have pointed out, the 3O limited opponent’s possessions, therefore giving them fewer opportunities to score points. The new offense doesn’t do that, so teams are routinely putting up more points than they did against CPJ led teams, making defensive performances look much worse, even if the points per drive outputs were the same. The 45 points Georgia scored, the 49 Clemson scored, and the 34 Minnesota scored in 2018 really aren’t all that different materially than the 73 Clemson scored this year. It all boils down to number of possessions and time of possession.

The 2018 Clemson game is the greatest example. Tech held the ball for 13 minutes(!!) longer than Clemson. But still allowed 49 points and got beat by 4 touchdowns. Clemson only had 9 3rd downs the entire game. In 2020, Clemson had the ball almost 12 minutes longer than Tech, and had 17 3rd downs. So really, the defense played just as good, if not better, against Clemson in 2020 than they did in 2018.

A lot of the blowout losses that Tech has suffered since CGC took over are just the materialization of transitioning the offense from a “death march” mentality into a modern up-tempo one. The offensive production has went down, and defensive performance has stayed relatively the same, but because of the increase in opponents’ possessions the defensive performance looks much worse compared to the CPJ era. If the defensive team that played against Clemson in 2018 would’ve played them in 2020, Clemson might’ve actually put up 100.

Lol....please dont compare 2018 to this year. We have been destroyed by teams that in 2018 we would have beaten. To say 49 points by Clemson in 2018 is the same as 73 is ludicrous. In fact in 2018 we pulled within a margin of 42-21 when Clemson put Lawrence back in. Why do you think I CPJs offense was effective...because we have a vast history of sub par defenses.

 

[JacketOff]

Lol....please dont compare 2018 to this year. We have been destroyed by teams that in 2018 we would have beaten. To say 49 points by Clemson in 2018 is the same as 73 is ludicrous. In fact in 2018 we pulled within a margin of 42-21 when Clemson put Lawrence back in. Why do you think I CPJs offense was effective...because we have a vast history of sub par defenses.

Soooo.... did you not read any of my post? Because comments like these are exactly what I was trying to address. Did you completely ignore the fact that Tech had the ball for almost an entire quarter longer than Clemson did in 2018? Yet they still allowed 49 points, and lost by 4 touchdowns?

In 2018 Clemson scored 49 points in 11 drives for a PPD average of 4.45. In 2020 Clemson scored 73 points in 17 drives for a PPD average of 4.29. Clemson had ZERO scoring drives of less than 50 yards in 2018, they had 4 in 2020. They had 3 drives where they scored 17 points while gaining only 15 combined yards.

In 2018 Clemson scored 49 points with a TOP of 23:55. That’s about 2.05 points per minute they had the ball. In 2020 Clemson scored 73 points with a TOP of 35:53. That’s about 2.03 points per minute with the ball.

Like I said, the defense played just as well, probably better, against Clemson in 2020 as they did in 2018. To say that 49 in 2018 is the same as 73 is definitely not ludicrous, it’s actually accurate. In fact, it’s so accurate that statistically the games were basically the same defensively. Now, if you want to provide some data other than anecdotal anger to disprove that point, I’d be happy to learn. Otherwise, you’ll have to accept the fact that 2018’s performance under CPJ was just as bad, and really worse, as 2020’s performance under CGC.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Soooo.... did you not read any of my post? Because comments like these are exactly what I was trying to address. Did you completely ignore the fact that Tech had the ball for almost an entire quarter longer than Clemson did in 2018? Yet they still allowed 49 points, and lost by 4 touchdowns?

In 2018 Clemson scored 49 points in 11 drives for a PPD average of 4.45. In 2020 Clemson scored 73 points in 17 drives for a PPD average of 4.29. Clemson had ZERO scoring drives of less than 50 yards in 2018, they had 4 in 2020. They had 3 drives where they scored 17 points while gaining only 15 combined yards.

In 2018 Clemson scored 49 points with a TOP of 23:55. That’s about 2.05 points per minute they had the ball. In 2020 Clemson scored 73 points with a TOP of 35:53. That’s about 2.03 points per minute with the ball.

Like I said, the defense played just as well, probably better, against Clemson in 2020 as they did in 2018. To say that 49 in 2018 is the same as 73 is definitely not ludicrous, it’s actually accurate. In fact, it’s so accurate that statistically the games were basically the same defensively. Now, if you want to provide some data other than anecdotal anger to disprove that point, I’d be happy to learn. Otherwise, you’ll have to accept the fact that 2018’s performance under CPJ was just as bad, and really worse, as 2020’s performance under CGC.

So 7 wins and a bowl is the same as 2 wins......really.......

 

[JacketOff]

So 7 wins and a bowl is the same as 2 wins......really.......

Thanks for playing. Unfortunately you failed to read, comprehend, and respond with relevant information. Maybe try to re-read what I said and come back when you have a well thought out response?

 

[THWG]

So 7 wins and a bowl is the same as 2 wins......really.......

He's looking at the Clemson game and comparing the defense, not the seasons.

 

[Coloradojacket]

He's looking at the Clemson game and comparing the defense, not the seasons.

Ok comparison. We held them scoreless in Q1. And this year. In Q 4 they had their punter playing QB. In 2018 Lawrence was still in. Need I say more

 

[JacketOff]

Ok comparison. We held them scoreless in Q1. And this year. In Q 4 they had their punter playing QB. In 2018 Lawrence was still in. Need I say more

Trevor Lawrence didn’t start in 2018. He only threw 18 passes in 2018. He threw 32 passes in 2020. Trevor Lawrence was taken out of the game again in 2018 after Clemson scored to make the game 35-7 on their first drive of the 2nd half. Both Kelly Bryant and Chase Brice were playing in the 2nd half of the 2018 game. Lawrence threw 4 passes in the 2nd half of that game. He threw 5 passes in the 2nd half of the 2020 game. Plus, that 2018 game was Lawrence’s “break out” game. It was the first game he got significant playing time. In the 2020 game he was a national champion and a Heisman favorite.

So yes, you do actually need to say more. You literally haven’t provided any information that disproves the fact that Clemson’s 49 point performance is statically any different than their 73 point performance in 2020. Again, statistically, the 2020 defense performed better than the 2018 defense. The offense was worse, and the lack of ball control hurt the defense just as much as the poor defense itself. Once again, Georgia Tech had THIRTEEN more minutes of ball control than Clemson in 2018, and still allowed 49 points.