2nd year in a row Tech starts 1-3.

[Deleted member 2897]

You miss the point. The ".500 record over the last 4 years" crowd chooses 4 years to fit their narrative. Last season, it was "less than .500 record over the last 3 years."

My preference is "We've had only 1 year below 0.500 in ACC play in the last 25 years."

 

[gtg391z]

[QUOTE="
Case-in-point: If CGC's transition from option to "pro-style" is the "biggest transition in the history of football", then wouldn't CPJ's transition from an actual pro-style (which is what CCG actually did run) to the option be tied for "biggest transition in the history of football"? If not, why not?[/QUOTE]

This has been discussed to death. The best talent CPJ had in his tenure was 2008 and 2009 and it translated quite well to the option. The opposite is not the same. We don't have an oline that can block in this scheme and probably wouldn't do well in the option either, QB's that struggle throwing the ball and have no experience, no TE's etc. If Nesbitt had not been here and Calvin Booker and Taylor Bennett were the QB's it would have been different.

 

[Vespidae]

You miss the point. The ".500 record over the last 4 years" crowd chooses 4 years to fit their narrative. Last season, it was "less than .500 record over the last 3 years."

That’s like asking if you would rather be a single or double amputee.

 

[slugboy]

3 years, 4 years, …, go back as many years as you want (well, I had to cut it off because of forum limits):

Year   Conf  W  L T  Pct    SRS  SOS AP Pre AP High AP Post                               Coach(es)                   Bowl                             Notes
2019    ACC  1  3 0 .250 -10.94                        0.56                                                                              Geoff Collins (1-3)
2018    ACC  7  6 0 .538   2.76                        1.76                      Paul Johnson (7-6)                                        Quick Lane Bowl-L
2017    ACC  5  6 0 .455   6.38                        5.93                                                                               Paul Johnson (5-6)
2016    ACC  9  4 0 .692   7.13                        2.90                      Paul Johnson (9-4)                                         TaxSlayer Bowl-W
2015    ACC  3  9 0 .250   1.43 4.60     16              14                                                                               Paul Johnson (3-9)
2014    ACC 11  3 0 .786  15.92        4.78       8       8                     Paul Johnson (11-3)                                            Orange Bowl-W
2013    ACC  7  6 0 .538   7.21                        3.67                      Paul Johnson (7-6)                                        Music City Bowl-L
2012    ACC  7  7 0 .500   5.18                        2.89                      Paul Johnson (7-7)                                               Sun Bowl-W
2011    ACC  8  5 0 .615   3.40       -1.29              12                      Paul Johnson (8-5)                                               Sun Bowl-L
2010    ACC  6  7 0 .462   0.80 0.80     16              15                      Paul Johnson (6-7)                                      Independence Bowl-L
2009    ACC 11  3 0 .786  13.54 4.83     15       7      13                     Paul Johnson (11-3)          Orange Bowl-L record adjusted to 10-3-0 by NCAA
2008    ACC  9  4 0 .692   6.78        1.70      14      22                      Paul Johnson (9-4)                                       Chick-fil-A Bowl-L
2007    ACC  7  6 0 .538   3.94        1.24              15      Chan Gailey (7-5) Jon Tenuta (0-1)                                      Humanitarian Bowl-L
2006    ACC  9  5 0 .643   6.50        1.64              13                       Chan Gailey (9-5)                                             Gator Bowl-L
2005    ACC  7  5 0 .583   7.31        6.48              15                       Chan Gailey (7-5)                                           Emerald Bowl-L
2004    ACC  7  5 0 .583   6.41                        4.25                       Chan Gailey (7-5)                                     Champs Sports Bowl-W
2003    ACC  7  6 0 .538   5.60                        5.68                       Chan Gailey (7-6)                                      Humanitarian Bowl-W
2002    ACC  7  6 0 .538   4.56                        3.86                       Chan Gailey (7-6)                                    Silicon Valley Bowl-L
2001    ACC  8  5 0 .615   7.10 1.95     10       9      24 George OLeary (7-5) Mac McWhorter (1-0)                                           Seattle Bowl-W
2000    ACC  9  3 0 .750  11.30        1.21      15      17                     George OLeary (9-3)                                             Peach Bowl-L
1999    ACC  8  4 0 .667  10.30 3.47     11       7      20                     George OLeary (8-4)                                             Gator Bowl-L
1998    ACC 10  2 0 .833  12.37        1.70       9       9                    George OLeary (10-2)                                             Gator Bowl-W
1997    ACC  7  5 0 .583   8.07        5.65      21      25                     George OLeary (7-5)                                          Carquest Bowl-W
1996    ACC  5  6 0 .455   1.78        2.06              22                                                                              George OLeary (5-6)
1995    ACC  6  5 0 .545  -0.16                       -0.43                                                                              George OLeary (6-5)
1994    ACC  1 10 0 .091  -7.41                        3.05                                                             Bill Lewis (1-7) George OLeary (0-3)
1993    ACC  5  6 0 .455  -0.72                        0.65                                                                                 Bill Lewis (5-6)
1992    ACC  5  6 0 .455   1.74 4.56     23              16                                                                                 Bill Lewis (5-6)
1991    ACC  8  5 0 .615   8.89 3.12      8               8                        Bobby Ross (8-5)                                             Aloha Bowl-W
1990    ACC 11  0 1 .958  19.28        4.28       2       2                     Bobby Ross (11-0-1)                                            Citrus Bowl-W
1989    ACC  7  4 0 .636   6.58                        1.40                                                                                 Bobby Ross (7-4)
1988    ACC  3  8 0 .273  -1.01                        1.00                                                                                 Bobby Ross (3-8)
1987    ACC  2  9 0 .182  -4.69                        3.68                                                                                 Bobby Ross (2-9)
1986    ACC  5  5 1 .500   2.70                        0.25                                                                               Bill Curry (5-5-1)
1985    ACC  9  2 1 .792  11.42        2.67      19      19                      Bill Curry (9-2-1)                                   Hall of Fame Classic-W
1984    ACC  6  4 1 .591   9.18        3.36              12                                                                               Bill Curry (6-4-1)
1983    ACC  3  8 0 .273  -0.26                        7.38                                                                                 Bill Curry (3-8)
1982    Ind  6  5 0 .545   0.58                        3.30                                                                                 Bill Curry (6-5)
1981    Ind  1 10 0 .091  -6.12                        8.89                                                                                Bill Curry (1-10)
1980    Ind  1  9 1 .136  -2.01                       10.26                                                                               Bill Curry (1-9-1)
1979    Ind  4  6 1 .409   1.67                        4.85                                                                           Pepper Rodgers (4-6-1)
1978    Ind  7  5 0 .583   6.51        5.18              20                    Pepper Rodgers (7-5)                                             Peach Bowl-L
1977    Ind  6  5 0 .545   8.88                        6.61                                                                             Pepper Rodgers (6-5)
1976    Ind  4  6 1 .409   4.41                        7.68                                                                           Pepper Rodgers (4-6-1)
1975    Ind  7  4 0 .636   8.08                        2.26                                                                             Pepper Rodgers (7-4)
1974    Ind  6  5 0 .545  10.07                        7.16                                                                             Pepper Rodgers (6-5)
1973    Ind  5  6 0 .455   2.42                        3.69                                                                               Bill Fulcher (5-6)
1972    Ind  7  4 1 .625  12.06        7.06      20      20                    Bill Fulcher (7-4-1)                                           Liberty Bowl-W
1971    Ind  6  6 0 .500   7.80 8.55     17              17                        Bud Carson (6-6)                                             Peach Bowl-L
1970    Ind  9  3 0 .750  13.91        8.24      13      13                        Bud Carson (9-3)                                               Sun Bowl-W
1969    Ind  4  6 0 .400   2.91                        6.71                                                                                 Bud Carson (4-6)
1968    Ind  4  6 0 .400  -0.20                        7.50                                                                                 Bud Carson (4-6)
1967    Ind  4  6 0 .400   3.59                        8.49                                                                                 Bud Carson (4-6)
1966    Ind  9  2 0 .818  17.47        6.38       5       8                        Bobby Dodd (9-2)                                            Orange Bowl-L
1965    Ind  7  3 1 .682  14.30        7.48               7                      Bobby Dodd (7-3-1)                                             Gator Bowl-W
1964    Ind  7  3 0 .700  10.88        5.78               7                                                                                 Bobby Dodd (7-3)
1963    SEC  7  3 0 .700  16.28        8.78               7                                                                                 Bobby Dodd (7-3)

Provided by CFB at Sports Reference: View Original Table
Generated 9/30/2019.

 

[WreckinGT]

Here is a link to the Pitt postgame thread from last year when we moved to 1-2.

https://gtswarm.com/threads/gt-vs-pitt-postgame.15659/

Tell me again how we were ok with the program at that time.

 

[slugboy]

Here's a graph:

 

[vamosjackets]

[QUOTE="
Case-in-point: If CGC's transition from option to "pro-style" is the "biggest transition in the history of football", then wouldn't CPJ's transition from an actual pro-style (which is what CCG actually did run) to the option be tied for "biggest transition in the history of football"? If not, why not?

This has been discussed to death. The best talent CPJ had in his tenure was 2008 and 2009 and it translated quite well to the option. The opposite is not the same. We don't have an oline that can block in this scheme and probably wouldn't do well in the option either, QB's that struggle throwing the ball and have no experience, no TE's etc. If Nesbitt had not been here and Calvin Booker and Taylor Bennett were the QB's it would have been different.

[/QUOTE]
It might have been a little different, but CPJ recruited two QB's the second he got the job - Jaybo Shaw and Tevin Washington and would've gone with one of them that first year. He also recruited a couple of ABacks ... not the next year's recruiting cycle but that year's recruiting cycle. Booker didn't have to play until QB1 and QB2 both went down. CGC recruited a TE, a RB, and a WR when he got here. If QB and OL are the big holes, why not recruit those. Bring in a couple of guys who can do what you are trying to do if that guy is not already on the roster. '08 and '09's talent did not translate well to the option on the OL. They had a QB who was key ... but I honestly think the RB's and/or WR's from any year would've translated fine. We converted two DE's, a TE, and a walkon DL to OL. And, those guys started. A couple guys are going to be good in any system (Andrew Garner, Shaq Mason's, etc). We also had massive OL injuries. Only after the starting OT and the DE who had become 2nd string OT went down did we resort to Nick Claytor (who fit a prostyle but not the option) starting the last two games. We still beat a Stafford and Moreno led Ugag in Athens. It just seems to betray the exact kind of bias described above to call CGC's transition "monumental" and CPJ's "no big deal" and say CPJ's first-year success was "no big deal" and CCG's first-year failure "no big deal". One transition was an improvement on past results (with essentially the same players) and the other a deterioration of past results (with essentially the same players).

BTW, I would say the best talent was not '08/'09 (for the option) but rather was '14, and honestly we may not have seen the best talent for the option yet. That might've come with Graham/Yates/Knight and Mason/Benson/Howard/Smith and Carter/Camp and Braun/Cooper/Lee and perhaps even a decent-to-good defense in Woody's 2nd/3rd year. Sorry, betraying my own bias now.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Just to clarify... Which is it? Were we "ok with starting 1-3 last year" or were we "melting down"?

It's the difference between a 1-3 start in year 11 vs. year 1. For me, it was post-Duke that I was ready to move on for the first time. Just seemed like we were having problems we shouldn't have been having at that stage. Don't remember what our record was then. 2-4? As far as this year goes, I am in the "disappointed but understand" category. I don't think anyone outside of our fanbase is judging Collins for this year's results at all. I really am tired of arguing, though. I just keep getting sucked back into it.

 

[gtg391z]

Without JFN 2008 and 2009 does not happen. Jaybo was good but would have never made it because he couldn't stay healthy even in his limited play. Dwyer was by far the best bback, Jones and peeples are at the top of a-backs and D. Thomas was the best receiver in his tenure.

2014 was just everything coming together at once and not really talent except for Shaq. Neither Bback did anything of significant except that year, same with Waller, we had a ex baseball player at receiver that fell into our lap and would be the best WR in his tenure if not for D. Thomas. I wouldn't call it luck but thing just don't fall into place like that very often as was evident in 2015-2018.

BTW, I'm not saying CPJ and staff didn't do a good job but its not apples to apples, more like apples to car doors, to what is going on right now.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I don't disagree with the best part of your philosophy which underlies this post. The most rational thing to do in this situation is to give leadership time to transition a program to their vision and then make the evaluation after a reasonable amount of time for that transition to actually occur and post results. But, you have to see that it seems that this has just become a divided fanbase with two irrational sides. It seems that you are on one side calling out the irrationality of the other side without recognizing/admitting the irrationality of your own side. It's emotion and preference. People who like the option, X's and O's, substance over style, etc naturally give CPJ the benefit of the doubt while not giving that benefit to CGC; and vice versa, people on your side who value style, brand, recruiting-stars, etc naturally give CGC the benefit o f the doubt while not giving it to CPJ. The same things are going on. Some are grumbling, some are defending, but mostly the roles have just reversed, based on nothing but who "likes/dislikes" who.

Case-in-point: If CGC's transition from option to "pro-style" is the "biggest transition in the history of football", then wouldn't CPJ's transition from an actual pro-style (which is what CCG actually did run) to the option be tied for "biggest transition in the history of football"? If not, why not?

It's always going to come back to talent. That roster had quite a bit of NFL talent and we haven't had a position player drafted since 2016 or an offensive player since 2015. Nesbitt was built in a lab to run CPJ's offense. What CGC is going through with his QB's right now is comparable to the idea of Taylor Bennett running the option, basically.

 

[gtg391z]

nm.

 

[BonafideJacket]

Nesbitt was built in a lab to run CPJ's offense.

I was generally with you until this. I'm one of the biggest JFN fans on the planet, but you and I both know this isn't true. Not picking on you particularly, but hyperbolic comments like this on both sides is what continue to derail these discussions. (of course, all those caveats about arguing on the internet apply).

 

[gtg391z]

JFN was pretty much a machine in that offense.

 

[BonafideJacket]

JFN was pretty much a machine in that offense.

He was a machine but he was not built in a lab for CPJ's offense. If anybody that was Tracy Ham. JFN's success was in large part due to play-calling that emphasized his strengths and played down his weaknesses. Similar to how Jaybo similarly lit up Mississippi St. and Duke in 08 with a modified gameplan. Yes, there was tremendous talent on that team, but the coaching staff did an excellent job in maximizing that talent and not asking folks to do things they weren't good at (well except for Booker against G-W of course).

 

[Skeptic]

Back to Back years we start 1-3 and have an identity crisis at QB. Last year we wanted Tobias, this year we don’t. Last year we were supposed to give Nate Woody time this year we panic after 4 games. What’s changed with how we approach transition other then our fans opinions? Why do we have to win right away? Over the last 4 seasons Tech has a .500 record. Why are we holding Collins to such a high standard in year 1 of the biggest transition in the history of football? Where has those same expectations been? Why were we ok starting 1-3 last year? Did any of you pay attention to any preseason coverage of Tech? This was supposed to happen, all those polls that picked us at the bottom of everything were right. EVERYONE saw this coming, yet here we are for the 2nd year in a row melting down.

..."year 1 of the biggest transition in the history of football?"...

Might we assume you have a prescription for that stuff? Or perhaps live in Colorado? Or secretly are the guy in the White House? Because this hyperbole is beyond exaggeration. See, you have a valid point, but having made it you go bonkers and lose your audience. Too bad.

 

[gtg391z]

We ran the 3o offense from day 1 under CPJ. CPJ didn't ease into anything. JFN ran the same offense as J.Thomas. Sure you run the plays that they are best at but it was still the 3o. CDP was not brought here to run the 3o and probably has very little experience with it and CBK probably has zero. I really don't think there is a way other than what we are doing on offense to try and get better. Its going to be painful.

 

[Skeptic]

I don't have any trouble whatsoever with complaints or criticism. those guys are making serious $ and they probably expect it to a certain degree.

WTBS,by far my biggest complaint are the 6-10 posters who generate a large percentage of the traffic here who repeat themselves over and over in almost every thread. It is OK to criticize CGC or CDP or whoever but there should be a cap of some sort on duplicate posts. Typing the same repetitive thoughts over and over again in almost every thread has really drug the quality of this site to a new low. I often thought it was the standard of excellence for the discussion of GT FB but it's sinking to the lowest common denominator.

I agree with what Howard Johnson said, and so for something new I have a serious question. Really, because his pictures drive me nuts. Does Collins have a problem with his neck and why turtlenecks all the time, which tend to make it look like his head comes straight out of his shoulders? It is just looks very odd. Now, back to repetitive overdrive.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Back to Back years we start 1-3 and have an identity crisis at QB. Last year we wanted Tobias, this year we don’t. Last year we were supposed to give Nate Woody time this year we panic after 4 games. What’s changed with how we approach transition other then our fans opinions? Why do we have to win right away? Over the last 4 seasons Tech has a .500 record. Why are we holding Collins to such a high standard in year 1 of the biggest transition in the history of football? Where has those same expectations been? Why were we ok starting 1-3 last year? Did any of you pay attention to any preseason coverage of Tech? This was supposed to happen, all those polls that picked us at the bottom of everything were right. EVERYONE saw this coming, yet here we are for the 2nd year in a row melting down.

I’m never satisfied starting 1-3. And I’m durn pi$$ed about averaging 2 points a game against Temple.

 

[gtg391z]

I’m never satisfied starting 1-3. And I’m durn pi$$ed about averaging 2 points a game against Temple.

Yeah, but that's on the players. Coaches put them in position to score and make plays and they didn't. Give it time.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I was generally with you until this. I'm one of the biggest JFN fans on the planet, but you and I both know this isn't true. Not picking on you particularly, but hyperbolic comments like this on both sides is what continue to derail these discussions. (of course, all those caveats about arguing on the internet apply).

*shrug* I didn't think it was that far off. I don't have familiarity with the offense outside of GT. I'd put Nesbitt and JT about equal, as different as they were.