2024 Football Portal

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
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9,885
He’s lost 12-15 iirc to the portal, I don’t think any were starters but why go into fall camp and then the season shorthanded?
I’m picking up that you disagree with Dabo’s coaching philosophy.

Since his philosophy is the complete opposite of the philosophy at FSU, it will be interesting this year to see which team does better. But, in the end, a coach has to go with he’s comfortable with and what he thinks works for him.
 

yeti92

Helluva Engineer
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2,711
I noticed today the roster was updated to remove portal players Kelly, Semo, C Brown, Gee, and Blackstrain, but Fortson was still on the roster. Ellis was also removed from the roster. Any change of status with Fortson?
Fortson headed to Tulane

 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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17,916
This will be interesting to watch play out. Starting to hear more and more that NIL collectives are not paying what they promised.

 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
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862

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
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2,293

Fun tidbit here regarding salary caps and NIL: “The sponsorship does not violate the WNBA’s salary cap because the Las Vegas authority did not orchestrate it with the club.”

So there’s some precedence for a salary cap putting certain restrictions on NIL at least around who can facilitate it. (Whether the NCAA would ever enforce such a thing well… lol)
NCAA isn’t going to be around long enough to enforce it.
 

leatherneckjacket

Helluva Engineer
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1,918
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Atlanta, GA

Fun tidbit here regarding salary caps and NIL: “The sponsorship does not violate the WNBA’s salary cap because the Las Vegas authority did not orchestrate it with the club.”

So there’s some precedence for a salary cap putting certain restrictions on NIL at least around who can facilitate it. (Whether the NCAA would ever enforce such a thing well… lol)
How is there a precedence on a salary cap putting restrictions on NIL when it says the sponsorship does not violate the salary cap? Those two comments are mutually exclusive.
 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
862
How is there a precedence on a salary cap putting restrictions on NIL when it says the sponsorship does not violate the salary cap? Those two comments are mutually exclusive.
It says it doesn’t violate it because the team didn’t orchestrate it. Team can’t help you get NIL. Would be much higher friction than what we appear to have today if the NCAA actually enforced their own version of that.
 

leatherneckjacket

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It says it doesn’t violate it because the team didn’t orchestrate it. Team can’t help you get NIL. Would be much higher friction than what we appear to have today if the NCAA actually enforced their own version of that.
You still have not explained how it is a precedence for a salary cap restrictions on NIL.
 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
862
You still have not explained how it is a precedence for a salary cap restrictions on NIL.
Teams can’t help orchestrate nil or other outside income under the WNBA/players deal. How is that not clear?

https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/wnba...ackie-young-caitlin-clark-basketball-pay-gap/ this article goes into more details and talks about where the gray areas seem to be, but I could easily see stuff like this bit in particular being a starting point for a college deal to try to rein in boosters some: “Players are prohibited from accepting sponsorship money for “basketball services” even if the agreement is “ostensibly designated as being for non-basketball services.””
 

leatherneckjacket

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Teams can’t help orchestrate nil or other outside income under the WNBA/players deal. How is that not clear?

https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/wnba...ackie-young-caitlin-clark-basketball-pay-gap/ this article goes into more details and talks about where the gray areas seem to be, but I could easily see stuff like this bit in particular being a starting point for a college deal to try to rein in boosters some: “Players are prohibited from accepting sponsorship money for “basketball services” even if the agreement is “ostensibly designated as being for non-basketball services.””
That has nothing to do with a salary cap on NIL. Schools have never been allowed to pay players or be directly involved in NIL deals, but they also cannot cap what someone makes in NIL
 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
862
That has nothing to do with a salary cap on NIL. Schools have never been allowed to pay players or be directly involved in NIL deals, but they also cannot cap what someone makes in NIL
lol I never said a “cap on nil” or “capping what someone makes in NIL.”

The NCAA claims to have the same restrictions in place already but in practice does not, it’s unenforced. “accepting sponsorship money for “basketball services” even if the agreement is “ostensibly designated as being for non-basketball services.”” is pretty much what today’s “NIL” ends up being and from this example we see that legally this can be restricted in a pro league, so a cap wouldn’t have to be entirely toothless against outside pay for play. Sponsorships wouldn’t be eliminated but there could be monitoring and regulation of them.

I don’t actually think the NCAA would want to do any of that, but they could.
 

leatherneckjacket

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lol I never said a “cap on nil” or “capping what someone makes in NIL.”

The NCAA claims to have the same restrictions in place already but in practice does not, it’s unenforced. “accepting sponsorship money for “basketball services” even if the agreement is “ostensibly designated as being for non-basketball services.”” is pretty much what today’s “NIL” ends up being and from this example we see that legally this can be restricted in a pro league, so a cap wouldn’t have to be entirely toothless against outside pay for play. Sponsorships wouldn’t be eliminated but there could be monitoring and regulation of them.

I don’t actually think the NCAA would want to do any of that, but they could.
You said there is a precedence for a salary cap putting restrictions on NIL. Well, there isn't. Saying schools cannot be involved in the payments is not a salary cap restriction on NIL. To be honest, I do think you even know what you are trying to say.

There is no salary cap for NIL. There is no precedence of salary caps restrictions on NIL. Neither the school nor the NCAA can regulate how much a student athlete can make in NIL. The restrictions are on the school's involvement in NIL, not the amount of NIL at a school. Suggesting the restrictions of school's involvement in NIL can lead to a salary cap makes zero sense
 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
862
Ohh, we made it to the insults part of the show! My favorite!

Me: "there’s some precedence for a salary cap putting certain restrictions on NIL at least around who can facilitate it"

You: "I do [not?] think you even know what you are trying to say"..."The restrictions are on the school's involvement in NIL, not the amount of NIL at a school"

Astonishing! You pull this "cap the amount" idea out of thin air, argue against it, then act like I'm an idiot for saying I never said it. Even when you completely agree that there can be restrictions on the team's/school's involvement!


Recap:

Today schools appear to be involved in facilitating NIL even if not allowed to.

With the WNBA's salary cap agreement, teams aren't allowed to, it's classified as trying to circumvent the cap. There are also restrictions on the legitimacy of the sponsorship, market value, etc - https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/wnba...ackie-young-caitlin-clark-basketball-pay-gap/ this is the much more interesting of the articles on it.

Thus, a future college agreement should also be able to restrict teams from being involved, plus restrict sponsors from offering poorly-disguised pay-for-play, regardless of today's legal challenges.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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14,070
Ohh, we made it to the insults part of the show! My favorite!

Me: "there’s some precedence for a salary cap putting certain restrictions on NIL at least around who can facilitate it"

You: "I do [not?] think you even know what you are trying to say"..."The restrictions are on the school's involvement in NIL, not the amount of NIL at a school"

Astonishing! You pull this "cap the amount" idea out of thin air, argue against it, then act like I'm an idiot for saying I never said it. Even when you completely agree that there can be restrictions on the team's/school's involvement!


Recap:

Today schools appear to be involved in facilitating NIL even if not allowed to.

With the WNBA's salary cap agreement, teams aren't allowed to, it's classified as trying to circumvent the cap. There are also restrictions on the legitimacy of the sponsorship, market value, etc - https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/wnba...ackie-young-caitlin-clark-basketball-pay-gap/ this is the much more interesting of the articles on it.

Thus, a future college agreement should also be able to restrict teams from being involved, plus restrict sponsors from offering poorly-disguised pay-for-play, regardless of today's legal challenges.
I agree with you on this. What are they being paid for if it’s not to play for team x? Is it celebrity endorsement of a product or service? Is it for showing up at autograph signing events? These things kind of sound legitimate. So what is the need of a collective anyway? Banning collectives would be the first step to fixing this mess.
 

YoungSting

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
254
I would love to see the “contracts”. Because with the uga player suing Florida, there’s no way the NIL money was promised all up front, right?? Nobody is that dumb in today’s portal era. Because I’m sorry, why on earth would you expect me to pay you to “work” somewhere else. If I’m the Florida coach, I’m telling him to get bent in the most legal way possible
 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
862
I agree with you on this. What are they being paid for if it’s not to play for team x? Is it celebrity endorsement of a product or service? Is it for showing up at autograph signing events? These things kind of sound legitimate. So what is the need of a collective anyway? Banning collectives would be the first step to fixing this mess.
The longer article (https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/wnba...ackie-young-caitlin-clark-basketball-pay-gap/) gives more details of the restrictions and it seems even more similar to the college sports issues:

Much of the investigation will likely hinge on whether certain players, most likely those with smaller roles on the team, were paid their “fair market value.” The collective bargaining agreement between the WNBA and the players union stipulates that a deal, which is “substantially in excess of the fair market value of any services to be rendered by the player” is not allowed.


The fact that all the Aces players will be paid the same amount—$100,000—could draw scrutiny from the league on those grounds. For example, the fact that Aces star player and two-time MVP A’ja Wilson will be paid the same by the Vegas tourism board as bench players who average less than two points a game could be perceived as an inflation of the latter’s “fair market value.”

The idea of the NCAA being competent and fair at judging and regulating the market value of sponsorship-related services for a GT player fairly vs a Alabama one, though... hahahahahahahahaha sigh. I don't think the will to do anything useful is there as long as the SEC and Big 10 schools have so much more resources and have so much weight to throw around. But it's not something leagues have never tried to control, which is new information to me.
 

TechPhi97

Ramblin' Wreck
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586
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Davidson, NC
Agree that NIL is a way to overcome scholarship limits.
" Hey Frank, I can't offer you a scholarship, but we can get you an NIL deal worth $500,000. We'll put you on as a walk on and have your NIL payments cover room, board, and tuition."

Next thing you know, UGA, Alabama, tOSU, etc. have 150 to 200 football players on the team.
Doubt this can happen. Guys like Deandre Smelter who played baseball and football counted against the football limit back I. The day, I imagine there would be rules about this for NIL also.
 

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
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1,160
The longer article (https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/wnba...ackie-young-caitlin-clark-basketball-pay-gap/) gives more details of the restrictions and it seems even more similar to the college sports issues:



The idea of the NCAA being competent and fair at judging and regulating the market value of sponsorship-related services for a GT player fairly vs a Alabama one, though... hahahahahahahahaha sigh. I don't think the will to do anything useful is there as long as the SEC and Big 10 schools have so much more resources and have so much weight to throw around. But it's not something leagues have never tried to control, which is new information to me.
I didn’t read the paywalled linked article, but it seems to me that you are saying the following:

If a) NCAA players agree to a collective bargaining agreement with the NCAA that includes a salary cap,

then b) the NCAA could conceivably place restrictions on outside income, such as NIL, that could be construed as circumventing the salary cap.

If my interpretation is correct, then for the NCAA's NIL restrictions to work in this manner, the players must have already agreed to a collective bargaining agreement that includes this restriction. That may or may not happen, but it is quite a ways from where we stand today with NIL.
 
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