2023-2024 ROSTER???

[slugboy]

Agree with a lot of this. There's an article on AJC about how Claude was recruited. They mentioned that DS used Al Horford's role in the Celtic's offense as an example of how DS wants to develop and use Claude.

Damon Stoudamire’s ‘different vision’ brings in transfer Tyzhaun Claude

When Claude came to Tech for his recruiting visit late last week, Stoudamire had a video presentation ready for him.

www.ajc.com

Al Horford has unlocked Celtics’ offense embracing role as shooter

Al Horford's shooting 47.8% on 3-pointers this season.

www.masslive.com

There is also the benefit for the Celtics where every guy on the floor can shoot. That’s been the recipe of success for the C’s as they lead the league in percentage of their shots being 3-pointers. Boston’s starting lineup of Horford, Tatum, Brown, Smart and either Grant Williams or Derrick White results in plenty of open shots, which the C’s keep knocking down.

That spacing has been key for the Celtics. And it starts with Horford in some ways as he has evolved into a stretch big who can give his teammates room to drive and work inside the paint.

I think the ability to handle the ball at all 5 spots, and ability to shoot is a premium in DS's system. The 4/5 spots will have their chances to move the ball in their hands, but also shoot if it's the best option on any given play.

I don't think the "traditional" PG will be that much of a factor in terms of "quarterbacking" the offense, now the offense will flow with whoever gets the best chance on that possession. Celtics are very fluid depending on the matchup and it will give opportunities to multiple guys to handle the ball and get it to the right guy on the floor.

The Celtics have multiple players that can bring the ball down the court, read a defense, and distribute the ball. That wasn’t us last season.
That might be a long term goal, but we would need to do well in the portal to build that kind of ball handling depth.

 

[YlJacket]

Horford's ability to shoot and handle the ball is a high bar for most college 5's. To be honest I didn't see that in the mini clips on each of the 2 guys we have taken. Hope they work and prove me wrong. I do think there are other ways besides just being able to shoot to keep the opposing 5 occupied.

 

[Techster]

The Celtics have multiple players that can bring the ball down the court, read a defense, and distribute the ball. That wasn’t us last season.
That might be a long term goal, but we would need to do well in the portal to build that kind of ball handling depth.

It also POSSIBLY goes to how Pastner and his staff wanted our players to handle their roles. I don't see Stoudamire wanting to change what makes his system "his system".

I think there's also a difference in handling the ball to break the press, and handling the ball to get by the defender to create a shot or break down the defense on an offensive set to create an opportunity for a teammate.

I've seen enough of the guys I originally mentioned to know they all can break the press, and handle the ball to create a shot or create an opportunity for their teammates.

 

[OG-T]

Current Roster:
PG - Sturdivant
SG- Kelly*/Terry
SF - Coleman/Reeves
PF - Moore/Gapare
C - Claude/ Dowuona
*Entered Draft, no agent.

 

[AUFC]

Assuming Gapare is ACC ready, one more PG to round out a deep rotation.

 

[RamblinCharger]

Looks like the roster is shaping up to be pretty solid. Anyone have a feeling on the 4's or 5's? Understand we need another PG, but I feel good about the 1,2,3 positions right now assuming all of those guys stick around.

 

[RamblinRed]

Definitely want another guard. Wouldn't mind another big as well.
I could see either of Coleman or Reeves get some minutes as a small ball 4, both played in that role sometimes last season.

I really thought Terry adjusted and played well toward the last half of the season.
Over the last 12 games he only had 2 games where he scored less than 9 pts (one was 8 pts in 25 min against Wake and the other was a goose egg against Pitt on 0-4 shooting in 14 min). In the other 10 games he had 9 pts three times and double figures 7 times incl 5 games of 17 or more. Pitt seemed to be his kryptonite last season as he had 2 points in 2 games against them (1-10 shooting).
He was also 27-65 from 3 in those 12 games (41%) and avg 12.9 ppg.
Only 2 other games in the ACC did he score less than 7 pts - 2 against Clemson in a pre-Christmas game and 4 points in the first ND game in early Jan.
2nd on the team in scoring in ACC games - 11.4 ppg.

I see Sturdy, Terry and Kelly staring at the 1-3 spots. I could see those 3 eating up 90-95 of the 120 mpg at those spots. That leaves 25-30 left in those spots for Coleman/Reeves to fill in and also play some of the 40 min at 4.
Duowona, Claude, Moore, and Gapare probably have roughly 60 min to split at the 4 and 5.

 

[78pike]

I really don't see the need for another true PG. AS previously noted we will run a system that is 4 or 5 out. In that system you want spot up shooters and guys that can take their man off the dribble and go to the basket. That is more of finding matchups that favor us than a point guard standing at the top of the key calling out plays. As far as bringing the ball up court, we spent the last half of the season using Coleman in that role as much as Sturdivant. Getting to the lineup whether we play 4 guards/wings or 3 guards a PF and a center depends on who we play. I will say this much, I think Moore or Claude need to work hard on their outside shots this offseason to increase their playing time. I don't think we can have a guy playing the 4 spot who can't hit a three. I definitely see Reeves on the floor because he is a matchup problem for the other team. Looks like Gapare and Dowuona will be sharing the under the boards spot.

 

[Root4GT]

Definitely want another guard. Wouldn't mind another big as well.
I could see either of Coleman or Reeves get some minutes as a small ball 4, both played in that role sometimes last season.

I really thought Terry adjusted and played well toward the last half of the season.
Over the last 12 games he only had 2 games where he scored less than 9 pts (one was 8 pts in 25 min against Wake and the other was a goose egg against Pitt on 0-4 shooting in 14 min). In the other 10 games he had 9 pts three times and double figures 7 times incl 5 games of 17 or more. Pitt seemed to be his kryptonite last season as he had 2 points in 2 games against them (1-10 shooting).
He was also 27-65 from 3 in those 12 games (41%) and avg 12.9 ppg.
Only 2 other games in the ACC did he score less than 7 pts - 2 against Clemson in a pre-Christmas game and 4 points in the first ND game in early Jan.
2nd on the team in scoring in ACC games - 11.4 ppg.

I see Sturdy, Terry and Kelly staring at the 1-3 spots. I could see those 3 eating up 90-95 of the 120 mpg at those spots. That leaves 25-30 left in those spots for Coleman/Reeves to fill in and also play some of the 40 min at 4.
Duowona, Claude, Moore, and Gapare probably have roughly 60 min to split at the 4 and 5.

We could use a guy who plays a role similar to what Sturdy did on the ACC Championship team. He played very steady turnover free BB for 10+ minutes freeing up Mike and Jose to go into a scoring mode.

Kelly handling the ball will take away from his scoring ability. Both he and Terry need to improve their handles attacking the basket.

 

[Techster]

Kelly handling the ball will take away from his scoring ability. Both he and Terry need to improve their handles attacking the basket.

IMO, that depends on how Kelly would be used if he's handling the ball more. Georges Hunt's scoring increased once Gregory forced him to be the primary ball handler. Some people thrive in that role, others thrive being able to run off screens/finding pockets in zones/etc. Outside of bringing the ball up the court, I honestly don't see too much of PG centered offense from DS. Should be a more flexible offense where we take advantage of movement off the ball and getting into favorable matchups.

 

[Connell62]

We could use a guy who plays a role similar to what Sturdy did on the ACC Championship team. He played very steady turnover free BB for 10+ minutes freeing up Mike and Jose to go into a scoring mode.

Kelly handling the ball will take away from his scoring ability. Both he and Terry need to improve their handles attacking the basket.

Kelly was very turnover prone last year. That’s probably one of the things he will hear from NBA insiders on where to improve.

 

[Connell62]

IMO, that depends on how Kelly would be used if he's handling the ball more. Georges Hunt's scoring increased once Gregory forced him to be the primary ball handler. Some people thrive in that role, others thrive being able to run off screens/finding pockets in zones/etc. Outside of bringing the ball up the court, I honestly don't see too much of PG centered offense from DS. Should be a more flexible offense where we take advantage of movement off the ball and getting into favorable matchups.

Yeah, but MGH scored his buckets by getting into the paint and finishing through contact. Kelly is way less physical and relies more on his perimeter shooting. Maybe he tries creating for himself a bit more, but I don’t see him initiating the offense.

If anyone is more likely to see mins at PG, I think it’s Deebo. We saw it last year after Deivon got hurt. That’s actually when the offense started turning around a bit.

 

[Root4GT]

Kelly was very turnover prone last year. That’s probably one of the things he will hear from NBA insiders on where to improve.

Do you have a guess yet as how the offense will flow considering the roster with the 4 additions and assuming Kelly returns?

In limited watching the Celtics Tatum and Brown are special players who can shoot and attack the basket with ease.

We have 3 pretty good 3 point shooters. I am not sure we have guys that can attack the basket. How much can a player improve in that area, I don’t have a clue.

This year should be interesting. We have a lot of guys who have played a lot of college basketball on the roster now.

I am hopeful this year.

 

[Techster]

Yeah, but MGH scored his buckets by getting into the paint and finishing through contact. Kelly is way less physical and relies more on his perimeter shooting. Maybe he tries creating for himself a bit more, but I don’t see him initiating the offense.

If anyone is more likely to see mins at PG, I think it’s Deebo. We saw it last year after Deivon got hurt. That’s actually when the offense started turning around a bit.

Coleman was one of my candidates to be a primary ballhandler in an earlier post behind Sturdy (along with Reeves, Terry, Kelly). I think you underrate Kelly's ability to get by the defender and score at rim:



MGH wasn't an example of how Kelly needed to play, he was just an example of what can happen when you push someone to do something out of their usual role and put the ball in their hands. There's more ways to score than just being physical getting to the rim and shooting.

Kelly's strength will be his shot, but as I said when we signed him, he's one of the few guys on the team that's willing to "try sh!t" with the ball in his hands. He'll also get stronger in the offseason, and that will help him be more physical off the dribble. As you see from that video, Kelly shows glimpses of creating opportunities for other players with the defense collapsing on him and finding an open teammate. Kelly will be our best scorer, and when he does have the ball in his hands, he's probably the most dangerous player on our team and that in itself will help create other opportunities.

With Coleman, Reeves, Kelly, Sturdy, and Terry, GT has 5 guys that can create space, and create off the dribble if they need to. I don't think GT necessarily needs a "primary" ballhandler as others have pointed out, as Stoudamire's "Celtics Light" system will give more players the ability to create inside his system.

 

[Peacone36]

We could use a guy who plays a role similar to what Sturdy did on the ACC Championship team. He played very steady turnover free BB for 10+ minutes freeing up Mike and Jose to go into a scoring mode.

Kelly handling the ball will take away from his scoring ability. Both he and Terry need to improve their handles attacking the basket.

i don’t agree with that necessarily. Every program runs the ole pass to the high post run around in circles offense these days which will still allow Miles to run off screen or be involved offensively. Bringing the ball up the court isn’t the as it was prior to the “positionless” concept

 

[YlJacket]

Do you have a guess yet as how the offense will flow considering the roster with the 4 additions and assuming Kelly returns?

In limited watching the Celtics Tatum and Brown are special players who can shoot and attack the basket with ease.

We have 3 pretty good 3 point shooters. I am not sure we have guys that can attack the basket. How much can a player improve in that area, I don’t have a clue.

This year should be interesting. We have a lot of guys who have played a lot of college basketball on the roster now.

I am hopeful this year.

The goal in the modern 5 out set is to not have to do the old school beat my man one on one to attack the basket. It is a little more complicated than Peac's description but the goal is to have enough motion and screening (on and off ball) to where guys get the ball in/off motion and have a step / half step advantage to drive or shoot with. While Kenny Anderson is great in any system, we shouldn't need our guys to be Kenny to get penetration and either shots or kick outs. If your perimeter players can shoot well enough to force defenses to play the motion honest then you can run a lot of Celtics light or really VT like motion and get the switches you want and matchups you can take advantage of.

Long way of saying yes players need to improve their handle/ability to get to the rack - but I think a lot of that can be handled with spacing and scheme.

 

[orientalnc]

The goal in the modern 5 out set is to not have to do the old school beat my man one on one to attack the basket. It is a little more complicated than Peac's description but the goal is to have enough motion and screening (on and off ball) to where guys get the ball in/off motion and have a step / half step advantage to drive or shoot with. While Kenny Anderson is great in any system, we shouldn't need our guys to be Kenny to get penetration and either shots or kick outs. If your perimeter players can shoot well enough to force defenses to play the motion honest then you can run a lot of Celtics light or really VT like motion and get the switches you want and matchups you can take advantage of.

Long way of saying yes players need to improve their handle/ability to get to the rack - but I think a lot of that can be handled with spacing and scheme.

The goal of every offense is to force the defense to double someone (however briefly) and get the ball to the uncovered player. Think pick and roll. There are lots of variations, but very few offenses are designed to isolate a defender and beat him one on one. The reason? There are not many Kenny Andersons.

 

[gte447f]

Deebo did not look good or comfortable when he was the primary ball handler last season. He will turn the ball over a lot with a good on-ball, perimeter defender on him.

Kelly is better than deebo in that role, but still not good enough, so in my opinion we still need a backup for sturdy. You would think Terry should have a decent ball handling skill set, but it doesn’t seem to be there.

 

[lv20gt]

I am vary warry to try and take NBA concepts and translate them to the college level in an extensive manner. The dynamic of having more experienced players, having played far more game, and training it as a profession creates a very different circumstance. Look at the celtics for example

Tatum - 6 years
Brown - 7 years
White - 6 years
Smart - 9 years
Brogdon - 7 years
Williams - 5 years
Williams - 4 years
Horford - 16 years
Hauser - 2 years

Most of their players have more experience in the NBA than is possible to have in college, and that's playing in the neighborhood of 2-3 times more games per year and treating it as a job with a support staff that I would have to imagine is more extensive than even the most well off college program. That allows for the development of skills that otherwise isn't really possible. For instance, Horford has pretty much become the blueprint for a stretch 5 type of player you'd want in a 5 out. Through his first 8 seasons in the NBA he made a total of 21 threes. There is just more opportunity for all around development in the NBA than in college on a year to year basis and a lot greater opportunity for continuity in the NBA because no limit on eligibility.

To me, the college equivalent is more likely to have one primary ball handler and two others that can handle the responsibility to some degree in case the opposing team has one great lock down defender, and then the other two players to be good enough in that regard to not have the offense stall when the ball gets to them. To have that and to keep the dynamic when it comes to subs or dealing with injuries/illness is key. I do think we need another PG. I think if we could just build a player it'd be a freshman transfer with 3 years eligibility with some amount of success. Not only to provide depth for this year but to help pre-emptively address holes in the future years. As it stands we can probably get away with Sturdy playing 33ish minutes and then 7 minutes with the collective handling things, but that means we're very vulnerable to injury/illness/foul trouble from that spot,

 

[Connell62]

If you're trying to say that we need to add another guard, I think that we all agree with you. Sit tight... He ain't done yet.