2018 ACC Football Kickoff

[smathis30]

We are 13th in spending out of 14 acc teams, that should tell you something right there. Which is 61st nationally, we should all take some time to let that sink in......... 61st.......

Clemson is really the only school that is competitive with the SEC and Big 10 top dogs. FSU comes in at #20, mostly due to the small alumni base with them starting to expand in the 1980's and their enrollment had almost doubled since then. I always thought Jimbo was exaggerating when he said FSU didn't have the facilities, as they have been playing at a top 10 level for like a decade with a top 25 budget.

 

[AE 87]

He's completely negative on the current program and won't even recognize any of the positives. On top of that, all he does is repeat the same talking point as if it makes a bigger impact the 5th or 6th time. I call that a troll.

That said, his opinion is his own and he's entitled to it. When he presents it in the fashion I just described, it's very trollish.

To be fair, I think all @Gold1 was saying was that he hasn't seen him at the meetings.

 

[Animal02]

Let’s see the numbers. I don’t want average. Clemson and FSU probably skew that drastically.

It is not just FSU and CLEMP ....and notice any trends?

Numbers adjusted for inflation not including scholarships
GEORGIA TECH
2005 $117,774 2015 $169,097
NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY
2005 $76,775 2015 $186,218
VIRGINIA TECH
2005 $173,013 2015 $233,535
VIRGINIA
2005 $245,829 2015 $158,407
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA
2005 $116,308 2015 $200,707
CLEMSON
2006 $147,505 2015 $238,523
FLORIDA STATE
2005 $$140,390 2015 $350,570
LOUISVILLE
2005 $102,061 2015 $188,367

GEORGIA
2005 $145,614 2015 $238,040
ALABAMA
2005 $212,393 2015 $385,198
TENNESSEE
2005 $165,590 2015 $355,736
AUBURN
2005 $260,258 2015 $341,871
MISSISSIPPI STATE
2005 $70,605 2015 $162,294
KENTUCKY
2005 $76,134 2015 $155,931

PURDUE
2005 $158,508 2015 $127,540
MICHIGAN
2005 $102,881 2015 $302,797
OHIO STATE
2005 $335,432 2015 $292,733
MICHIGAN STATE
2005 $174,634 2015 $336,430

 

[knoxjacket]

It is not just FSU and CLEMP ....and notice any trends?

Numbers adjusted for inflation not including scholarships
GEORGIA TECH
2005 $117,774 2015 $169,097
NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY
2005 $76,775 2015 $186,218
VIRGINIA TECH
2005 $173,013 2015 $233,535
VIRGINIA
2005 $245,829 2015 $158,407
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA
2005 $116,308 2015 $200,707
CLEMSON
2006 $147,505 2015 $238,523
FLORIDA STATE
2005 $$140,390 2015 $350,570
LOUISVILLE
2005 $102,061 2015 $188,367

GEORGIA
2005 $145,614 2015 $238,040
ALABAMA
2005 $212,393 2015 $385,198
TENNESSEE
2005 $165,590 2015 $355,736
AUBURN
2005 $260,258 2015 $341,871
MISSISSIPPI STATE
2005 $70,605 2015 $162,294
KENTUCKY
2005 $76,134 2015 $155,931

PURDUE
2005 $158,508 2015 $127,540
MICHIGAN
2005 $102,881 2015 $302,797
OHIO STATE
2005 $335,432 2015 $292,733
MICHIGAN STATE
2005 $174,634 2015 $336,430

Interesting. I wonder what kind of impact travel expenses have on those numbers? It looks like that is about 10% of a schools expenses per football player. Atlanta is cheap as hell to travel from compared to these other places.

Another big chunk is coaches pay, which we do not have an OC so that has an impact.

Another chunk is tuition. We are in a football talent rich state. We take a ton of in-State kids. In-state tuition is a third of out of state.

That could easily cover some of these 20k type differences.

I’m not sold these numbers actually mean what you think they do. Is there a difference between us and the big time programs? Hell yes. The UNC, VT, NC States of the world? Not so much.

 

[Animal02]

Interesting. I wonder what kind of impact travel expenses have on those numbers? It looks like that is about 10% of a schools expenses per football player. Atlanta is cheap as hell to travel from compared to these other places.

Another big chunk is coaches pay, which we do not have an OC so that has an impact.

Another chunk is tuition. We are in a football talent rich state. We take a ton of in-State kids. In-state tuition is a third of out of state.

That could easily cover some of these 20k type differences.

I’m not sold these numbers actually mean what you think they do. Is there a difference between us and the big time programs? Hell yes. The UNC, VT, NC States of the world? Not so much.

What part of “Not including scholarships” did you not comprehend.
Not much difference. Are you blind. Look at the change from 2005 to 2015. There is a helluva difference. It is why the other schools are now competitive.
As for air travel......football teams travel by charter for the most part. Cost of travel is not going change that much from school to school except for some place like Hawaii.
You can try to spin it all you want to blame it all on the HC, but the fact remains Tech went from a little above average to well below......that is the reason for where we are today.
You are “not sold” because all you want to do is blame CPJ

 

[alentrekin]

Its reality denial to look at these numbers, and the current state if our program, and think that we are similar to the others..

 

[Animal02]

Its reality denial to look at these numbers, and the current state if our program, and think that we are similar to the others..

It is easy to see why we can compete with Miss State and Kentucky, and not Clemp or UGAG.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Interesting. I wonder what kind of impact travel expenses have on those numbers? It looks like that is about 10% of a schools expenses per football player. Atlanta is cheap as hell to travel from compared to these other places.

Another big chunk is coaches pay, which we do not have an OC so that has an impact.

Another chunk is tuition. We are in a football talent rich state. We take a ton of in-State kids. In-state tuition is a third of out of state.

That could easily cover some of these 20k type differences.

I’m not sold these numbers actually mean what you think they do. Is there a difference between us and the big time programs? Hell yes. The UNC, VT, NC States of the world? Not so much.

Seriously?? It says scholarships not included. You are literally just twisting things to find a way for it to fit your narrative. The point of the originals post, where you asked to show numbers was to show you we are not at the top of the pack. It was also to say that teams have caught up since Gailey while we have been a sitting duck, which is a FACT by the numbers shown.

We are 61st in funding in football. 13th out of all ACC teams and around 1.5 million behind the 12th ranked team in the ACC, yet have had more on field success than every team under CPJ but 3.

You give coaches pay as an example as to why we could be behind with not having an OC, well CPJ is at the top in ACC salary for head coaches so that helps the offset you were talking about, we also have the maximum amount of coaches allowed just like every other team, we just don’t use that as an OC. As far as traveling I highly doubt it’s such a big difference that it is putting us on a level playing field in funds.

Here’s a big thing though, if all of what you say is true then Gailey actually had a bigger gap in funding from the schools below GT and a smaller gap from the schools above GT. as you make it seem now, CPJ is middle of the pack for the reasons you listed above which would have made Gailey top of the pack.

You keep looking at such a small sample size of stuff instead of the full picture.

 

[Animal02]

Seriously?? It says scholarships not included. You are literally just twisting things to find a way for it to fit your narrative. The point of the originals post, where you asked to show numbers was to show you we are not at the top of the pack. It was also to say that teams have caught up since Gailey while we have been a sitting duck, which is a FACT by the numbers shown.

We are 61st in funding in football. 13th out of all ACC teams and around 1.5 million behind the 12th ranked team in the ACC, yet have had more on field success than every team under CPJ but 3.

You give coaches pay as an example as to why we could be behind with not having an OC, well CPJ is at the top in ACC salary for head coaches so that helps the offset you were talking about, we also have the maximum amount of coaches allowed just like every other team, we just don’t use that as an OC. As far as traveling I highly doubt it’s such a big difference that it is putting us on a level playing field in funds.

Here’s a big thing though, if all of what you say is true then Gailey actually had a bigger gap in funding from the schools below GT and a smaller gap from the schools above GT. as you make it seem now, CPJ is middle of the pack for the reasons you listed above which would have made Gailey top of the pack.

You keep looking at such a small sample size of stuff instead of the full picture.

And since the "Not including scholarships" was not understood....."adjusted for inflation" The 2005 number is adjusted to today's dollars. The actual number is a bit lower.

 

[vamosjackets]

To me, it has always seemed like a basic formula for a program to win. It's not even about the head coach. It's about the O and D Coordinators! That was Clemson's formula. Dabo started out as a HC and he got that. He didn't want to be paid top dollar, he took a pretty low salary for a factory HC, but he wanted that money to go toward his staff - especially his coordinators. He got two very expensive coordinators - Morris and Steele. Morris was a homerun and Steele was OK but not great. Morris went on to HC somewhere else, so Dabo kept his two protege's as Co-OC's which kept continuity in personnel and system and paid the a lot to keep them both; and he got rid of Steele and brought in another top dollar DC who turned out to be the best in the business. That's why Clemson is winning the way they are - they've simply got the best OC and DC money can buy. They've also got great recruiting which is huge too, but it's those two 5* Generals they've got as their leaders and Dabo is simply a great recruiter, figure head, media guy, cheerleader, and people person (all of which are valuable as well). It was the same at Auburn when Tuberville took them to the heights of undefeated seasons - Chizik as DC, can't remember the OC's name (big guy); same with Chizik as HC who brings in Malzahn as OC and goes to the championship. FSU with Jimbo as HC/OC has Pruitt as DC and goes to the NC, the next year Pruitt's gone and they have Charles Kelly who isn't terrible but he's not the elite force Pruitt is, and they fall back down to earth, even though they still have the same HC. It's the same at GT - look at Bobby Ross' great year - O'Leary as DC and Fridge as OC - hard to beat that. Look at O'Leary's success - Fridge as OC was his primary reason for success, without him he wasn't nearly as good, with Roof as DC in '99 (awful!!) it took what could've been a championship type team to a barely above .500 team, while with Edsall in '98 we were championship contenders.

This is actually why I think CPJ could be absolutely perfect for GT, like couldn't get a better scenario. He's his own OC so you save that money, and he's a VERY good OC, perhaps even the best as we've seen when he has just a few key pieces. Now, if you want GT to go to real, consistent championship contenders there's only one thing to do. Quit focusing on anything else, not facilities, not calculus, not even recruiting (although this one would come in a very close second). All you do is get GT a top dollar DC and GT is the scariest team in college football!!!!!! That's it. Don't even worry about any of the other assistants, hire young guys who will recruit and be happy to work for 150K/yr. Just go out and hire the best DC money can buy and GT is immediately a contender for the highest prize. And, we should have the money to do that since we shouldn't have an OC salary to pay. Maybe we'll have the money when these other ex-basketball coaches are no longer on the payroll.

Maybe we've got a great DC now, I really don't know. I'm excited about the potential, very excited, but I truly don't know if he's a top-notch DC in all the land. If he is, we'll all be having a different conversation 2 years from now asking how we can go from 10 wins/yr to actually winning the playoff (which would take adding few elite players). If he's not, that is the only thing to worry about, the only thing to change, and the only thing TStan should be focusing on raising money for. I'd contribute to that fund right now - the GT DC fund. There's nothing else about GT football I feel more strongly about and confident in my assessment. I'll say it once more: HC doesn't matter. Great Coordinators = Great GT Football!

 

[Oakland]

Good points vamos. I hope Coach Woody turns out to be like that overlooked walk-on player that winds up winning the Heisman Trophy. So far I like what I'm reading from the players.

 

[Gold1]

To me, it has always seemed like a basic formula for a program to win. It's not even about the head coach. It's about the O and D Coordinators! That was Clemson's formula. Dabo started out as a HC and he got that. He didn't want to be paid top dollar, he took a pretty low salary for a factory HC, but he wanted that money to go toward his staff - especially his coordinators. He got two very expensive coordinators - Morris and Steele. Morris was a homerun and Steele was OK but not great. Morris went on to HC somewhere else, so Dabo kept his two protege's as Co-OC's which kept continuity in personnel and system and paid the a lot to keep them both; and he got rid of Steele and brought in another top dollar DC who turned out to be the best in the business. That's why Clemson is winning the way they are - they've simply got the best OC and DC money can buy. They've also got great recruiting which is huge too, but it's those two 5* Generals they've got as their leaders and Dabo is simply a great recruiter, figure head, media guy, cheerleader, and people person (all of which are valuable as well). It was the same at Auburn when Tuberville took them to the heights of undefeated seasons - Chizik as DC, can't remember the OC's name (big guy); same with Chizik as HC who brings in Malzahn as OC and goes to the championship. FSU with Jimbo as HC/OC has Pruitt as DC and goes to the NC, the next year Pruitt's gone and they have Charles Kelly who isn't terrible but he's not the elite force Pruitt is, and they fall back down to earth, even though they still have the same HC. It's the same at GT - look at Bobby Ross' great year - O'Leary as DC and Fridge as OC - hard to beat that. Look at O'Leary's success - Fridge as OC was his primary reason for success, without him he wasn't nearly as good, with Roof as DC in '99 (awful!!) it took what could've been a championship type team to a barely above .500 team, while with Edsall in '98 we were championship contenders.

This is actually why I think CPJ could be absolutely perfect for GT, like couldn't get a better scenario. He's his own OC so you save that money, and he's a VERY good OC, perhaps even the best as we've seen when he has just a few key pieces. Now, if you want GT to go to real, consistent championship contenders there's only one thing to do. Quit focusing on anything else, not facilities, not calculus, not even recruiting (although this one would come in a very close second). All you do is get GT a top dollar DC and GT is the scariest team in college football!!!!!! That's it. Don't even worry about any of the other assistants, hire young guys who will recruit and be happy to work for 150K/yr. Just go out and hire the best DC money can buy and GT is immediately a contender for the highest prize. And, we should have the money to do that since we shouldn't have an OC salary to pay. Maybe we'll have the money when these other ex-basketball coaches are no longer on the payroll.

Maybe we've got a great DC now, I really don't know. I'm excited about the potential, very excited, but I truly don't know if he's a top-notch DC in all the land. If he is, we'll all be having a different conversation 2 years from now asking how we can go from 10 wins/yr to actually winning the playoff (which would take adding few elite players). If he's not, that is the only thing to worry about, the only thing to change, and the only thing TStan should be focusing on raising money for. I'd contribute to that fund right now - the GT DC fund. There's nothing else about GT football I feel more strongly about and confident in my assessment. I'll say it once more: HC doesn't matter. Great Coordinators = Great GT Football!

Should email Tstan this

 

[alentrekin]

I really, really like the film I watched on CNW. His guys got run over against UGA last year and Miami the year before, but he had good calls, often with a guy blitzing into the flow; the joes were just a step too slow or walton/michel/chubb just ran over the LB.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

As much as I hate to admit it...the mutts ran over just about everyone they faced last year. They were better than I expected in every phase of the game. Especially Oline and D. They have talent still but lost a ton and most of their best players.