2015 Warmest Year on Record

[GTNavyNuke]

No offense bro but you will have to comb through this and the AGW denier thread yourself
........

Thanks for the brief. Neither extreme is right IMHO.

 

[BuzzStone]

I do have to say it is quite amazing how many people will believe things based on pure faith or just hearing some important person say it even if what is said is ridiculous. But there is some evidence of human made climate change but as a party line you deny it. I am the first to admit that my mind is not made up either way based on pure ignorance of the situation. I just wish we could focus the discussion on the long term impact of humans on earth, the only viable host we have currently.

 

[bke1984]

Thanks for the brief. Neither extreme is right IMHO.

I generally agree with this. We have some effect, but the Earth's climate drastically changed several times in its 4.5 billion year history, and I actually think we're pretty cocky to think that we really have that much control over it. A lot of the global warming fanatics will carve out the last 1000 years of this chart and show that the temperature is increasing without looking at the cyclical nature of the Earth's climate over its lifetime.

But whatever, people have to find something to argue about...I generally choose college sports

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

What we know about the universe / our planet < what we don't know

 

[BuzzStone]

What we know about the universe / our planet < what we don't know

I would agree. But we know some very important things.

1. We currently can only viably inhabit the Earth.
2. There is no where we can currently reach that's still has life as we know it.
3. The earth has limited resources.
4. Humans are raping the earth of what resources are here.
5. Space exploration is very important for when we run out of resources. (Did you know there was a place where it literally rains oil?)
6. The possibility exist that humans have an effect on the climate.
7. We only have this one life. It is short and we should try to leave this world betteroff than when we got here.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

8. We aren't anywhere close to dangerous AGW much less a runaway greenhouse effect.
9. #4 is extreme hyperbole.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

What I find interesting is the 2 degree tipping point concerns you keep hearing about. Yet during the Roman times, they were in fact 2 degrees warmer than now. So what happened? Why did it not tip then? shouldn't we all be dead by now or at least it should have been much easier to find the North West passage?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

There is a fairly strong argument that +2C will actually be a net benefit. In particular with regards to reducing global hunger / starvation. Then you also have the fact that the cold kills more in winter than the heat of summer does. Many alarmists care more for polar bears "stranded" on floating ice than they do about human starvation.

If we funneled environmental study money to actual projects like drilling fresh water wells around the globe we would actually improve the quality of life for hundreds of thousands of peopke around the globe. Peopke that don't have access to clean fresh water. That would actually l save countless lives.

Our society is more concerned with unproven theories and environmental models rather than proven and known needs. Tell a village that has no fresh water that global warming is the biggest risk to their lives and well being.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I generally agree with this. We have some effect, but the Earth's climate drastically changed several times in its 4.5 billion year history

When ever I hear this I think about most of the people I know personally who do not believe in human influenced climate change and I realize they also don't believe the earth is much more than 10,000 years old. I always wonder how they keep these two compartments of their brain separate.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Many alarmists care more for polar bears "stranded" on floating ice than they do about human starvation.

Now that is extreme hyperbole.

Tell a village that has no fresh water that global warming is the biggest risk to their lives and well being.

It is not either or.

As always I lament that fact that people who have honest differences of opinion can no longer discuss these issues without it becoming highly political. I argued a long time ago that I would be far more willing to listen to counter claims about global warming if the people making them did not invariably drift into government conspiracies and acting like everyone who believes in global warming has some sinister alternative motive. This is not aimed at you. It is just a sadness I feel about the fact that there are fewer and fewer topics anyone can discuss anymore in good faith.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I generally agree with this. We have some effect, but the Earth's climate drastically changed several times in its 4.5 billion year history, and I actually think we're pretty cocky to think that we really have that much control over it. A lot of the global warming fanatics will carve out the last 1000 years of this chart and show that the temperature is increasing without looking at the cyclical nature of the Earth's climate over its lifetime.

But whatever, people have to find something to argue about...I generally choose college sports

View attachment 2090

Another interesting tidbit is that CO2 concentrations actually trailed the temperature rise. So do the CO2 concentrations increase due to temperature increase?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ice-core-data-help-solve/

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I generally agree with this. We have some effect, but the Earth's climate drastically changed several times in its 4.5 billion year history, and I actually think we're pretty cocky to think that we really have that much control over it. A lot of the global warming fanatics will carve out the last 1000 years of this chart and show that the temperature is increasing without looking at the cyclical nature of the Earth's climate over its lifetime.

But whatever, people have to find something to argue about...I generally choose college sports

View attachment 2090

When ever I hear this I think about most of the people I know personally who do not believe in human influenced climate change and I realize they also don't believe the earth is much more than 10,000 years old. I always wonder how they keep these two compartments of their brain separate.

@bke1984 obviously isn't the religious radical you are attempting to paint him as considering he cited a 4.5 billion year old earth rather than a 10k age of the earth. This attempt doesn't make you appear as open to countering opinions as you lament.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Now that is extreme hyperbole.

It is not either or.

As always I lament that fact that people who have honest differences of opinion can no longer discuss these issues without it becoming highly political. I argued a long time ago that I would be far more willing to listen to counter claims about global warming if the people making them did not invariably drift into government conspiracies and acting like everyone who believes in global warming has some sinister alternative motive. This is not aimed at you. It is just a sadness I feel about the fact that there are fewer and fewer topics anyone can discuss anymore in good faith.

You are correct it was extreme hyperbole. Committed by major media outlets.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/n...un-bear-able-for-polar-bears-stranded-on-ice/

https://weather.com/news/news/polar-bear-melting-ice-sea-norway

Nevermind of course the fact that polar bears can and frequently do swim for hundreds of kilometers with ease. And have long been known to do so. Extreme hyperbole indeed.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

http://www.naturalnews.com/033370_polar_bars_scientific_fraud.html

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...poses-stranded-polar-bear-global-warming-hoax

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

http://m.pnas.org/content/97/4/1331.full

Interesting reads.

http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming-2/ice-core-graph/

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Interesting reads.

http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming-2/ice-core-graph/

If you read the one I posted after the joannenova one, it is fine tuning the CO2 lag from the ice core. The lag is still there, but it is closer to 100 to 200 years. Even more closely linked to temp rise.

 

[IEEEWreck]

http://www.naturalnews.com/033370_polar_bars_scientific_fraud.html

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...poses-stranded-polar-bear-global-warming-hoax

Dude, do you hear yourself?

Newsbusters? Breitbart? Realclimatescience?

Here's a thought: when a person starts with the premise that everyone else is lying to you and exploiting you, and only they will tell you the truth, it's usually
A. A scam (or, you know, a cult. But those usually are more specific about your friends and family all lying to you) that
B. wants your money.

I read your links. Newsbusters here, exposing the HOAX that the ALARMIST liberals are using to destroy our economy! Those data faking scientists are lying about those bears! The bears are fine! Well, you know, people like that Al Gore guy said that. But the American media would never, ever tell you the truth about polar bears! That, folks, is why we need you to donate now to Newsbusters. Pass the hat, folks. Contribute, too.

Except then you click the link newsbusters claims to expose, and lo and behold that great paper of record, the Sun, is publishing cool pictures of polar bears.

And they quote a photographer.

Who says the ice breaks up every year, but it's started breaking up sooner and sooner, disrupting polar bear feeding patterns.

Hmm.

And it's not like sober discussions of the trends are missing from the public discourse. Here's a decent start:

http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/20...ated-the-truth-about-global-temperature-data/

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

@IEEEWreck

Dude.

Please feel free to recommend media sources you have found that are impartial. I wait with baited breath.

 

[AE 87]

Dude, do you hear yourself?

Newsbusters? Breitbart? Realclimatescience?

Here's a thought: when a person starts with the premise that everyone else is lying to you and exploiting you, and only they will tell you the truth, it's usually
A. A scam (or, you know, a cult. But those usually are more specific about your friends and family all lying to you) that
B. wants your money.

I read your links. Newsbusters here, exposing the HOAX that the ALARMIST liberals are using to destroy our economy! Those data faking scientists are lying about those bears! The bears are fine! Well, you know, people like that Al Gore guy said that. But the American media would never, ever tell you the truth about polar bears! That, folks, is why we need you to donate now to Newsbusters. Pass the hat, folks. Contribute, too.

Except then you click the link newsbusters claims to expose, and lo and behold that great paper of record, the Sun, is publishing cool pictures of polar bears.

And they quote a photographer.

Who says the ice breaks up every year, but it's started breaking up sooner and sooner, disrupting polar bear feeding patterns.

Hmm.

And it's not like sober discussions of the trends are missing from the public discourse. Here's a decent start:

http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/20...ated-the-truth-about-global-temperature-data/

I think that one of the points is that both sides think the true-believers on the other side are lying or deluded.

 

[IEEEWreck]

I think that one of the points is that both sides think the true-believers on the other side are lying or deluded.

Maybe?

Probably.

I guess my point is that there ought to always be room for rebuttal. If you read that NASA is correcting temps downward, I think we all owe NASA the curiosity to seek why without letting some other source speak for them.

And I mean that in general, for all things. Much more so for a group that has a history of incredible engineering feats, a sterling public service history, and ranks filled with our brother and sister Jackets.

One other thing: I have a visceral reaction to 'news' sites that gleefully suggest you give them christmas money because they make those damn sissy college kids cry.

It sounds an awful lot like a U (sic)gA point of view. The message there is the same as the classic dwag: there's no need for progress, folks. Technology and change aren't needed, thats an unmanly, foreign affront to your values and place in soceity. Its as enemical to the GT spirit here as it was when the dwags said the same about building carpet mills in Georgia.