12/9: MBB vs Alabama A&M

[Root4GT]

the game against miss st he was hitting layups- now i see him pass out when at the rim- idk why

Fair question. Likely because he is a freshman playing his 5th game.

 

[slugboy]

I think this is an A&M tweet…

 

[78pike]

Said it after the UGA game, Reeves is our most consistent and our best overall player so far this season. Affects the game in so many ways.

He's starting to live up to his 5 star rating coming out of High School.

It shows what a difference a good head coach can be. I remember an interview with Reeves earlier in the year and the interviewer asked him what he liked about CDS. Reeves replied by saying something to the effect that CDS let's them play. He said he doesn't have someone looking over his shoulder every time he misses a shot looking to pull him from the game like he did when he was at Florida.

 

[Connell62]

It shows what a difference a good head coach can be. I remember an interview with Reeves earlier in the year and the interviewer asked him what he liked about CDS. Reeves replied by saying something to the effect that CDS let's them play. He said he doesn't have someone looking over his shoulder every time he misses a shot looking to pull him from the game like he did when he was at Florida.

More love for CDS from Reeves....

Quote from AJC article...

“Since Day 1 coach (Damon Stoudamire) just instilled a level of confidence in me that I’ve never had while I’ve been in college,” Reeves said. “It’s kinda like just go out there and play hard, play the right way, and everything else will kind of find you. I’m just real grateful to have the coach that we got, man. I couldn’t ask for a better coach and staff. That dude’s awesome, man.”

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

Abram has plenty of physical tools and skills. And to his credit he did dig-in defensively last night. He has the size-strength-quickness to be an impact defender if he so chooses. But he shows his immaturity on the court. He, like Gapare, want to take the game over every time they have the ball in their hands.

He and Gapare have huge upsides. But they are big projects for the staff. I give Stoudamire credit for drawing a line and sitting Abram for 3 games. There is a LOT of coaching to be done here to reel-in these big fish. And Stouamire deserves credit for giving them minutes even if it makes the coach look bad. Our coach is ambitious and confident. That is a good thing.

As for PG, it is a different kind of position. Success there doesn't distill down to mere physical tools and skills. Feel for the game is the thing. Magic Johnson wasn't great because he was tall. He wasn't especially quick, not a great leaper, not especially physical and not a great shooter to say the least. He impacted the game with his decisions. He just saw the game at a different level than most all other players. Kenny Anderson was like that as a college player for GT. Alvarado developed into that kind of guy by the end of his career. And Alvarado was not a great shooter when he came in. His shooting stats as a Senior were extremely good.

When I watch George play, I see that kind of thing. He is not a finished product in terms of skills, but the kid sees the floor at a different level. I give a little example from last night: We're in half court defense where George is at the top of the key loosely guarding the PG who does not have the ball. Gt is not applying pressure. A&M wing has the ball and dribbles to the right right wing. The A&M PG is about 20 feet out, midway between the top of the key and half-court. As the A&M wing drives right, George, far away from the action, slides over to the right just ten feet at the top of the key. When the driving A&M wing is cut-off by the GT defense, he looks to outlet to the A&M PG who is being lazy and doesn't move to the ball and George is there to intercept the outlet pass.

Sliding over those ten feet was the diffrence between a steal or a routine offensive re-set. It was completely instinctive. Most players don't do it and most fans don't see it. Feel for the game and anticipation count on defense as well. And George consistently grinds on defense.

I saw an interview of Magic Johnson one time and he said, WWTTE, that basketball was a simple game. When a player has the ball in his hands, there are only three things he can do with it: he can shoot it, pass it, or dribble it. The player only has to make the right decision.

Here is a thing for fans to watch to compare our PGs: When our PGs receive the ball, make a mental count of how long it takes each of our PGs to make a decision to pass, shoot or dribble, and compare those counts between the players. I think they will be stunned by how big a difference there is.

Both Pastner and Stoudamire emphasized not wanting the ball to stick on offense. A good way to beat a defense is to play the game mentally faster than the defense. We saw several instances of rapid ball movement by GT last night that resulted in wide open shots. Offensive pace is dictated by rapid decisions and anticipation. I'm not sure that is something that you can teach.

If you have that feel for the game at the PG spot, it raises the ceiling for the entire offense. If you don't have that, = low ceiling.

MtnWasp makes a good point on how any player should react when catching the ball. Back in the day...Dean Smith was one of the originators of what was then called the passing game, now the motion offense, used by many colleges and pro teams. It is best simply described here at https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offense/north-carolina-motion-offense.html . UNC under Smith produced not only many great point guards but forwards and centers. Each player had equal opportunity to do what they were able to do. When we played them typically twice or three times a year from 1968-72, with such as George Karl the point guard, Charlie Scott and Bill Chamberlain at forward and Bob McAdoo at center. Scouting reports and game reality showed each player catching the ball and within two seconds mentally going through the sequence of either shooting, driving to score or get out of a trap, or passing the ball to another for a repeat of their fundamental skills of shooting, driving, or passing. There were no individual roles or no set plays, all instinctive reaction of each of the five players either to shoot, drive, or pass. That forced each defensive player to be able to defend each action, and allowed the offense to take advantage of a weak defender.

Although there was no 30-second clock, UNC would usually score within 3 or 4 players touching the ball within 10 seconds. On the average team, most every player is "fast" physically, yet only the top flight teams are "quick" both mentally and physically in the decisions and actions required of the motion offense (what I call free-lance offense). I think that is what Coach Stoudamire is trying to instill into this group of players and find the best to put on the court at any one time.

 

[lv20gt]

It shows what a difference a good head coach can be. I remember an interview with Reeves earlier in the year and the interviewer asked him what he liked about CDS. Reeves replied by saying something to the effect that CDS let's them play. He said he doesn't have someone looking over his shoulder every time he misses a shot looking to pull him from the game like he did when he was at Florida.

This is an odd statement. In 19.3 minutes per game last year he shot 8 times per game which was second most on the team. That is 16.5 FGA per 40 minutes which led Florida last year. To compare, Kelly this year is leading our team at 19.2 FGA per 40 and second is Abram at 16.5. That doesn't really seem like coaches were pulling him after every missed shot especially since his shooting %s certainly didn't warrant that level of volume shooting.

 

[78pike]

This is an odd statement. In 19.3 minutes per game last year he shot 8 times per game which was second most on the team. That is 16.5 FGA per 40 minutes which led Florida last year. To compare, Kelly this year is leading our team at 19.2 FGA per 40 and second is Abram at 16.5. That doesn't really seem like coaches were pulling him after every missed shot especially since his shooting %s certainly didn't warrant that level of volume shooting.

If you play 19.3 minutes per game and take 8 shots it means you are averaging a shot every 2.4 minutes. So if he missed EVERY shot he would only play in about 2 and a half minute spurts which is difficult to gain any kind of rhythm. Obviously he didn't miss every shot so he was often playing stretches of at least a few minutes especially since the coach would have to wait for a dead ball to pull him. I guess I don't see how his statement doesn't make sense. I can't imagine trying to play the game if I knew every time I missed a shot I was coming out. That would make a player very tentative and would affect his shooting percentage I would think. Under CDS Reeves is playing with a freedom he didn't enjoy before which apparently has allowed him to blossom into the 5 star talent he was coming out of high school. That being said I feel pretty sure that Reeves was paraphrasing a bit and his coach didn't actually bench him after every missed shot. But if that is how it felt to him while he played there don't you think it would have an adverse affect on how he played?

 

[CEB]

MtnWasp makes a good point on how any player should react when catching the ball. Back in the day...Dean Smith was one of the originators of what was then called the passing game, now the motion offense, used by many colleges and pro teams. It is best simply described here at https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offense/north-carolina-motion-offense.html . UNC under Smith produced not only many great point guards but forwards and centers. Each player had equal opportunity to do what they were able to do. When we played them typically twice or three times a year from 1968-72, with such as George Karl the point guard, Charlie Scott and Bill Chamberlain at forward and Bob McAdoo at center. Scouting reports and game reality showed each player catching the ball and within two seconds mentally going through the sequence of either shooting, driving to score or get out of a trap, or passing the ball to another for a repeat of their fundamental skills of shooting, driving, or passing. There were no individual roles or no set plays, all instinctive reaction of each of the five players either to shoot, drive, or pass. That forced each defensive player to be able to defend each action, and allowed the offense to take advantage of a weak defender.

Although there was no 30-second clock, UNC would usually score within 3 or 4 players touching the ball within 10 seconds. On the average team, most every player is "fast" physically, yet only the top flight teams are "quick" both mentally and physically in the decisions and actions required of the motion offense (what I call free-lance offense). I think that is what Coach Stoudamire is trying to instill into this group of players and find the best to put on the court at any one time.

Great points…
Offense stagnates when the ball stops moving. Have to recognize opportunities quickly… or maybe more accurately / importantly recognize when you DONT have an opportunity and move the ball quickly.

I know everyone gets excited about guys who are capable of creating shots, but when all five guys catch it and hold it for several seconds or immediately put it on the floor, defense recovers and you miss opportunities for teammates.

When you see it, you know it. Balance, spacing and ball movement…. Offense looks simple and effortless, but it isn’t easy to achieve.

 

[lv20gt]

If you play 19.3 minutes per game and take 8 shots it means you are averaging a shot every 2.4 minutes. So if he missed EVERY shot he would only play in about 2 and a half minute spurts which is difficult to gain any kind of rhythm. Obviously he didn't miss every shot so he was often playing stretches of at least a few minutes especially since the coach would have to wait for a dead ball to pull him. I guess I don't see how his statement doesn't make sense.

Because to me it is incongruous to have a coach both have a quick trigger to pull a player for a missed shot and to play that player enough to have the second highest FGA per game on the team despite a bad shooting %. Typically a coach with a quick trigger to pull isn't going to keep putting the same player back in over and over if they keep doing the same thing over and over. Especially since in your scenario they'd have to put Reeves back in after just 2 or so minutes. Now it's possible it happened once or a couple of times and that is just what stuck with Reeves and so he had that mentality even if it wasn't actually what was happening.

 

[alagold]

So I went back to watch theA&m game.I don't quite get why we are passing up 5-10 ft shots by then passing to a guy outside 3 pt line when we don't shoot 3s well? Especially vs a weak team like AM.I saw one REAL pass inside in the first 10 mins of that game.We've got to develop an inside game more than just Off rebs.

 

[Root4GT]

So I went back to watch theA&m game.I don't quite get why we are passing up 5-10 ft shots by then passing to a guy outside 3 pt line when we don't shoot 3s well? Especially vs a weak team like AM.I saw one REAL pass inside in the first 10 mins of that game.We've got to develop an inside game more than just Off rebs.

Analytics say shoot at the rim or from the 3 point line unless the shot clock is winding down. That may or may not be a good strategy but is is what is in vogue throughout basketball.

 

[slugboy]

Analytics say shoot at the rim or from the 3 point line unless the shot clock is winding down. That may or may not be a good strategy but is is what is in vogue throughout basketball.

I think Steve Kerr says that. It’s how the game is built

 

[cpf2001]

I think it’s probably worth mixing in some seven-seconds-or-less philosophy (not that faster shots = better shots, but that if you get a good look early take it since you might not get a better one) vs purely waiting for dunks or threes, but it’s hard to argue for a return to a full-on midrange game the way most players can shoot from deep now.

(Whether this team can shoot from deep well enough at this moment… different question )

 

[Peacone36]

Nothing to glean here. Should’ve won by 100. Tells us zero

 

[gte447f]

So I went back to watch theA&m game.I don't quite get why we are passing up 5-10 ft shots by then passing to a guy outside 3 pt line when we don't shoot 3s well? Especially vs a weak team like AM.I saw one REAL pass inside in the first 10 mins of that game.We've got to develop an inside game more than just Off rebs.

Analytics say shoot at the rim or from the 3 point line unless the shot clock is winding down. That may or may not be a good strategy but is is what is in vogue throughout basketball.

This is definitely modern basketball strategy, but I’m with alagold on this one. It seems misguided when taken to the extreme. Watching guys give up shots from the low post area gets tiring, especially for a team that only shoots 29% from 3.

44% from 2 would beat 29% from 3, and 44% should be doable from the low post.

 

[slugboy]

Nothing to glean here. Should’ve won by 100. Tells us zero

Well, it’s a clue that we aren’t Louisville

 

[Connell62]

Nothing to glean here. Should’ve won by 100. Tells us zero

I disagree, I think that it told us a lot about what went on in practice prior to the game, and what Damon is trying to instill in the team.

Being there live, there was a heightened sense of intensity from our team, from every player. Going to the boards, playing D, getting back on D, etc.

It didn't necessarily translate to the type of beat down many expected, but I think that it showed that CDS isn't willing to let up in his drive for consistency and effort in all phases.

One of the reasons that I think some of our guys are struggling with their shooting % (shout out to IV) is because they're exerting more energy in other phases of the game.

For example, Miles Kelly is on pace to just about triple his career average on rebounds.

 

[Root4GT]

I disagree, I think that it told us a lot about what went on in practice prior to the game, and what Damon is trying to instill in the team.

Being there live, there was a heightened sense of intensity from our team, from every player. Going to the boards, playing D, getting back on D, etc.

It didn't necessarily translate to the type of beat down many expected, but I think that it showed that CDS isn't willing to let up in his drive for consistency and effort in all phases.

One of the reasons that I think some of our guys are struggling with their shooting % (shout out to IV) is because they're exerting more energy in other phases of the game.

For example, Miles Kelly is on pace to just about triple his career average on rebounds.

That makes sense. He has said he expects 100% effort on the court and if tired signal and he will sub for you. I suspect it's hard for players to ask to be subbed out in a game. That is not something most of them have ever done as they were generally the best player in HS or AAU teams and did not need to expend 100% energy the whole time on the court. Likely it will take some time for the players to trust they can sub out and not have it held against them.

 

[YlJacket]

That makes sense. He has said he expects 100% effort on the court and if tired signal and he will sub for you. I suspect it's hard for players to ask to be subbed out in a game. That is not something most of them have ever done as they were generally the best player in HS or AAU teams and did not need to expend 100% energy the whole time on the court. Likely it will take some time for the players to trust they can sub out and not have it held against them.

Usually the deal is if the player asks to be subbed out because they are tired then they get to say when they are ready to go back in. It was a trend from the days of Dean Smith that many teams employ.

If the coach decides you are lagging and pulls you out himself then the coach gets to decide when you go back. It is a great incentive for players to be honest and proactive when they are tired.

 

[57jacket]

LOL. I doubt ANY of our problems are about tiredness.