11/28 - MBB vs. Miss St.

[TampaBuzz]

THIS. A lot of people don’t understand that at most basketball levels, you CAN lift your pivot foot. You just can’t put it back down while you still have the ball. It’s been this way for decades, but would need @Tom to confirm. It’s officially called a step-through. Check out @stepthroughjoe on instagram for 100s of legal clips of this move at essentially all levels.

Ok....i just caught the ball and landed with both feet on the floor. I lift my right foot and push of my left foot (pivot) and land 4 or 5 feet away on my right foot. Now I can legally stand there on my right foot for 2 or 3 seconds before passing or shooting as long as my left foot doesn't touch the ground? I know that in reality they land on right foot and immediately shoot or pass as one continuous motion, but still; the pivot foot has changed. So the key seems to be the continuity of motion before the left foot hits the ground again. Way different from my playing days many decades ago!

 

[57jacket]

A foul generally has to impact the play. You see guys put their hands on a guy with the ball without any impact and no foul is called. You see moving screens all the time where the defender gets around the guy setting the screen with just a bit of contact. Are those fouls in your book? For most refs as they had no impact on the play the answer is no, play on.

But that varies ref to ref Root.

 

[Root4GT]

But that varies ref to ref Root.

All refs make judgment calls on most plays so of course what one ref sees as an impact on the play can be different than another ref. Basketball would be unwatchable if everything is called a foul but didn’t impact the player.

Just watch how often the late whistle occurs when there is slight contact on drives to the basket and see if the ball went in or not. If you watch closely over multiple games you can see a pattern.

 

[gte447f]

as long as your hand is on top of the ball, no traveling. Now, if you palm the ball, that's a carry. But, if the ball is spinning under your hand, you can take as many steps as you want and it's not a travel. Now, that's not to say you won't get called for it by a ref who just doesn't know the rules well enough.

Ok. I see what you are saying, and I agree. I was thinking in terms of making a “running” shot like a layup, since your original response was to a comment about Kelly pinning the ball to his chest and taking two huge running steps to do a layup. In the case of a running shot or pass you cannot take 3-4 steps.

What you are referring to about keeping your hand on top of the ball is just basic dribbling and can be interpreted to mean you are not required to take only one step for every bounce of the ball, which is only natural. If you sprint full speed while dribbling a basketball, you will naturally take multiple steps per bounce of the ball. Now, you can use this rule in creative ways to do things like stutter step, skip, or hop while maintaining your dribble.

 

[gte447f]

Tampa buzz, yes, you basically have it now, except, you can never “switch” your pivot foot. It is just semantics, but one or the other of your feet is defined as your pivot foot depending on the circumstances (e.g., moving, standing still, one foot touching, both feet touching, no feet touching), and once the pivot foot has been designated, it does not change throughout the duration of your movement until the ball is released. After the pivot foot has been designated, it is the action of the pivot foot that defines whether or not a traveling violation occurs.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Ok. I see what you are saying, and I agree. I was thinking in terms of making a “running” shot like a layup, since your original response was to a comment about Kelly pinning the ball to his chest and taking two huge running steps to do a layup. In the case of a running shot or pass you cannot take 3-4 steps.

What you are referring to about keeping your hand on top of the ball is just basic dribbling and can be interpreted to mean you are not required to take only one step for every bounce of the ball, which is only natural. If you sprint full speed while dribbling a basketball, you will naturally take multiple steps per bounce of the ball. Now, you can use this rule in creative ways to do things like stutter step, skip, or hop while maintaining your dribble.

Yes. I don't remember the play where he pinned the ball to his chest, so I can't say anything.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Tampa buzz, yes, you basically have it now, except, you can never “switch” your pivot foot. It is just semantics, but one or the other of your feet is defined as your pivot foot depending on the circumstances (e.g., moving, standing still, one foot touching, both feet touching, no feet touching), and once the pivot foot has been designated, it does not change throughout the duration of your movement until the ball is released. After the pivot foot has been designated, it is the action of the pivot foot that defines whether or not a traveling violation occurs.

if you jump stop before you grab the ball, you get 2 steps (first to establish pivot foot, then second for movement)

 

[gte447f]

if you jump stop before you grab the ball, you get 2 steps (first to establish pivot foot, then second for movement)

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “jump stop before you grab the ball”, but with jump stops, whether or not you are allowed to establish a pivot foot depends on how you execute the jump stop.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “jump stop before you grab the ball”, but with jump stops, whether or not you are allowed to establish a pivot foot depends on how you execute the jump stop.

If both feet are established on the floor before you possess the ball, you can take a left foot, right foot movement towards the basket. (or vice-versa)

 

[gte447f]

If both feet are established on the floor before you possess the ball, you can take a left foot, right foot movement towards the basket. (or vice-versa)

Ok, I was thinking you meant jump stop from a dribble. Yes, if both feet are on the floor before you possess the ball, then you can move one foot and then the other, but you can’t take two full steps. You can lift either foot and the other becomes the pivot foot. You can place the first foot back on the floor, taking a step, and you can pick up the second foot, the pivot foot, but you cannot place it back on the floor to complete a second step.

 

[rush3225]

A remarkable turnaround from the Cincy game to Miss St. game. Just what was needed. Like two different teams (maybe because they were..).

To me, the big differences were defense, and, Nait George. What a freshman point guard! Handles the ball (even under extreme pressure late), sees the floor, a true distributor of the basketball (incl lobs, bullet passes, no looks, the works). Just makes the whole team better. Congrats to Coach Stoudamire and the whole team for bouncing back. Huge. Proud of the Jackets

 

[forensicbuzz]

Ok, I was thinking you meant jump stop from a dribble. Yes, if both feet are on the floor before you possess the ball, then you can move one foot and then the other, but you can’t take two full steps. You can lift either foot and the other becomes the pivot foot. You can place the first foot back on the floor, taking a step, and you can pick up the second foot, the pivot foot, but you cannot place it back on the floor to complete a second step.

You can move both feet.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Again, that's not the point. We're talking about why people ***** and complain about the refs and when they don't. All you say is true, but that isn't relevant to the whole point of the discussion of why people weren't pissing and moaning about the officiating in the MSU game because we won. I posited it was because the foul count was pretty even throughout the game and the refs didn't affect the game much by over/under officiating. I think people tend to not get upset at the officiating when the officiating isn't really a part of the game flow.

This just seems so plainly obvious I don’t know why anyone would argue it. The other point that has been made also seems demonstrably true. When Tech wins very few people want to talk about officiating, they want to talk about the athletes. As it should be.

Finally, I can’t believe no one has seems to have noticed this in the past or mentioned this but I’ve seen coaches go to the scorer’s table at the half, get the list of fouls that show a huge disparity between the two teams, and calmly point that out to the officials. I don’t think I’ve ever not seen the foul calls even out more in the second half as a result.

I’m one of those who never liked coach K, fine coach that he may be, because I got tired of watching him work the refs hard in games and having this eventually result in a key call going against the other team. It’s just a personal preference on my part but the interaction with refs always seemed more light hearted with coaches like Cremens or Jimmy V.

 

[UgaBlows]

I disagree. Often the foul count is inequitable.

Especially against dook and unc

 

[UgaBlows]

A remarkable turnaround from the Cincy game to Miss St. game. Just what was needed. Like two different teams (maybe because they were..).

To me, the big differences were defense, and, Nait George. What a freshman point guard! Handles the ball (even under extreme pressure late), sees the floor, a true distributor of the basketball (incl lobs, bullet passes, no looks, the works). Just makes the whole team better. Congrats to Coach Stoudamire and the whole team for bouncing back. Huge. Proud of the Jackets

Yes! I was SO impressed with him, very smooth ball-handler and distributer

 

[Tom]

THIS. A lot of people don’t understand that at most basketball levels, you CAN lift your pivot foot. You just can’t put it back down while you still have the ball. It’s been this way for decades, but would need @Tom to confirm. It’s officially called a step-through. Check out @stepthroughjoe on instagram for 100s of legal clips of this move at essentially all levels.

I should’ve put that I’m a ref in another college sport but a lot of refs that I ref with also do major conferences in CBB and other college sports (some of who I used to yell at myself lol). What I said is more of generalization of how referees ref and think. It is all similar, regardless of sport.

Which y’all have made another point that I left out in how fans get upset over calls due to lack of understanding. I wish there was more communication to the fans of rule changes and what not; but, in the end, the coaches and players at this level always know and that’s what matters the most.

 

[forensicbuzz]

This just seems so plainly obvious I don’t know why anyone would argue it. The other point that has been made also seems demonstrably true. When Tech wins very few people want to talk about officiating, they want to talk about the athletes. As it should be.

Finally, I can’t believe no one has seems to have noticed this in the past or mentioned this but I’ve seen coaches go to the scorer’s table at the half, get the list of fouls that show a huge disparity between the two teams, and calmly point that out to the officials. I don’t think I’ve ever not seen the foul calls even out more in the second half as a result.

I’m one of those who never liked coach K, fine coach that he may be, because I got tired of watching him work the refs hard in games and having this eventually result in a key call going against the other team. It’s just a personal preference on my part but the interaction with refs always seemed more light hearted with coaches like Cremens or Jimmy V.

Look at the original question and my original answer to address what you say in your first paragraph. Don’t lose track of the whole conversation.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Look at the original question and my original answer to address what you say in your first paragraph. Don’t lose track of the whole conversation.

Oh no, you want to go back and read the original assignment again?!!!

 

[LargeFO]

All I know is watching some of my dads old games from late 70s etc…

If you took more than 2 full steps it was a travel and was called as so.

 

[stinger78]

So, do we have our starting 5 set now?