1/9 - GT MBB vs Notre Dame

[GaTech4ever]

You’re overthinking it. Kyle was one assist from a triple double on Saturday, and he laid an egg on both sides of the ball last night.

I probably am overthinking it, because his (and Deebo’s) body language has always been pretty consistent(ly poor). I just expected more this season.

1.) Just watch Kyle’s body language walking into the tunnel at halftime of his near triple double game. His teammates had to physically console him for his reaction to his own horrible possession/shot selection.

2.) What’s disappointing is Kyle and Deebo aren’t playing well enough to not do the little things. Deebo literally looks into space, completely disengaged from his teammates, during on-court team huddles when he’s shooting poorly. Kyle can’t stop hanging his head after mistakes.

3.) CDS is starting to reference his players not playing like brothers and that disappointing him the most.

1, 2, and 3 above are observations, not opinions. Certainly I could be overthinking it, but is there any chance these observations have any merit? Or are these little things that you think don’t matter for a 1st year head coach? I just haven’t heard anyone refute what I’m observing and/or give any other reasons for what’s easily observable. And instead I’m actually hearing the head coach talk about the same overarching point minutes after a loss.

 

[Connell62]

I probably am overthinking it, because his (and Deebo’s) body language has always been pretty consistent(ly poor). I just expected more this season.

1.) Just watch Kyle’s body language walking into the tunnel at halftime of his near triple double game. His teammates had to physically console him for his reaction to his own horrible possession/shot selection.

2.) What’s disappointing is Kyle and Deebo aren’t playing well enough to not do the little things. Deebo literally looks into space, completely disengaged from his teammates, during on-court team huddles when he’s shooting poorly. Kyle can’t stop hanging his head after mistakes.

3.) CDS is starting to reference his players not playing like brothers and that disappointing him the most.

1, 2, and 3 above are observations, not opinions. Certainly I could be overthinking it, but is there any chance these observations have any merit? Or are these little things that you think don’t matter for a 1st year head coach? I just haven’t heard anyone refute what I’m observing and/or give any other reasons for what’s easily observable. And instead I’m actually hearing the head coach talk about the same overarching point minutes after a loss.

You said it yourself. Their play / body language is no different than it’s ever been. They’re great kids / young men, but expecting Kyle to suddenly to be something different after 5 seasons is crazy.

He will be up and down all season. He will play great and look like a 5th year center, and in others he will be a non-factor. Inconsistent effort has plagued a lot of our guys this year.

That’s what I feel is driving Damon crazy.

 

[MacDaddy2]

I have felt at times we would be well served to run a zone for a couple of minutes (especially when Coleman is on the floor) but Damon's resistance to that concept actually is working against us (at times). I am still sold on CDS but wish he would deploy a full arsenal of schemes.

This is my hoops version of being in a shotgun formation when on the 1 yard line......

 

[Connell62]

I have felt at times we would be well served to run a zone for a couple of minutes (especially when Coleman is on the floor) but Damon's resistance to that concept actually is working against us (at times). I am still sold on CDS but wish he would deploy a full arsenal of schemes.

This is my hoops version of being in a shotgun formation when on the 1 yard line......

Did Paul Johnson go to Power I from the triple option, for a single snap, in year 1 because he didn’t have the personnel to execute the offense?

My point is that Damon is working on installing a culture, way of doing things, and he’s not willing to change.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Did Paul Johnson go to Power I from the triple option, for a single snap, in year 1 because he didn’t have the personnel to execute the offense?

My point is that Damon is working on installing a culture, way of doing things, and he’s not willing to change.

Yep. Damon is going to do it his way.

 

[Peacone36]

I agree with you on the added pieces, but I think there is a bit more to it. I think there is a mental aspect to it.

We’ve heard Damon talk about the guys still needing to buy all the way in to what he and the staff are requiring of them. Damon has alluded (a couple of times) that our returning guys haven’t been held to a particular standard. The attention to detail that he’s looking for, the level of effort he is seeking isn’t there 100% of the time.

So I agree that we need a big (other than Baye). Not just for an easy bucket out of the post, but maybe more importantly, for rim protection. We give up WAY too many easy buckets.

I won’t be disappointed if we see some attrition.

Yeah, that is the type of big I’d lean towards as well. Don’t need a guy to score 15 a night, but if he can grab 8 boards and get a couple blocks a night, that’d be ideal

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I want to double down on how much I like Stoudamire’s press conferences, especially after this loss. He communicates clearly both in what he says directly and what he says between the lines. His focus is on the players. He cares about their development while incorporating tough love. If they are not cut out for high level basketball he will not think less of them as human beings but he will not pump them up with false praise about their skills. He doesn’t sweat the losses because these are not on him at this point. But he takes responsibility for getting the program to a better place. If anyone ever wanted a father figure who could teach them to be better he would be it. Tough but fair. Supportive but no nonsense. I have a feeling any of his players who want to know where they stand in their development, and listen to his press conferences, know exactly where they stand and what they need to work on. This man does serious coaching.

 

[lv20gt]

It's funny to watch the progression of this board when it comes to our roster. In the summer it was an amazing overhaul done overnight by our new staff to make us a much more competitive team and that it would be . Then in the early season we just needed time for the players to gel. Now our roster is full of guys with bad attitudes, guys who aren't capable of playing at this level, guys who aren't buying in, guys who aren't "playing for their brothers", and that we need to wait until he gets his guys in the system to judge. It's like following a script.

Well, at least I have the answer to a question I asked back in november.

But how long is enough time to gel? My guess is that it will be right up until the point we starting hearing about CDS needing time to get his players in.

I will say it is a neat wrinkle in the script for the new coach to follow the same trajectory. Somehow he went from flipping this in 180 days to "Big picture, it's program driven... It really isn't about today. We're gonna get better... The dog days is gonna make the good days better, because when the good days come, I'm telling you, it's gonna be a lot of fun. " 260 days later.

But I know whatever I say will just be written off because I "hate" CDS. I disliked the hire because he was extremely unproven as a coach at this level. Him I was indifferent to. But listening to him throw the players under the bus and not take accountability at all is starting to annoy me.

Listen to his post game. He includes a token line at the begging about how everyone, staff included, needs to get tired of losing. Then he makes sure to tell you that if he is confident in one thing it is the preparation, and then later how before the game you teach the game and then once the game starts, or as he put it everything between the lines, is all about you and your brothers, including flat out saying the coach can't help you with it. So he made sure to tell you he wasn't at fault. He'll also tell you all about how our players don't play with toughness. They play hard but don't compete. They just play and don't think. They don't "play for their brothers". He [CDS] can't be the only one that has expectations for them. Miles Kelly isn't used to being the guy on a winning team.

 

[MtnWasp]

I think it fair to criticize the coach for the play of the team and I think it is fair to be skeptical if he has the coaching chops to make a splash in the ACC. But I see ZERO inconsistency in what he is saying and his comments on the team with regards to his vision for how he wants to win.

 

[dtm1997]

Yeah, that is the type of big I’d lean towards as well. Don’t need a guy to score 15 a night, but if he can grab 8 boards and get a couple blocks a night, that’d be ideal

You want AD Gueye.

 

[57jacket]

Yeah, that is the type of big I’d lean towards as well. Don’t need a guy to score 15 a night, but if he can grab 8 boards and get a couple blocks a night, that’d be ideal

Absolutely correct Peacone36. That is what is missing. The last 3 games we have been crushed on the glass. All have good, not great, big men. BC, FSU, ND. Posters blame everything but that.. LOL

 

[Root4GT]

You’re overthinking it. Kyle was one assist from a triple double on Saturday, and he laid an egg on both sides of the ball last night.

As much as I appreciate his service, I’d say that sums up his career at GT. Inconsistency has plagued him the last couple of seasons.

Kyle is a nice player off the bench. If he has his A game he can make a difference. If he doesn't have his A game then he needs to go back to the bench. Nait does need spells at PG. He is a freshmen playing a tough position against very good players. I like his upside.

 

[spdrama]

Nobody exclaimed “Damon who?”, so maybe this is just one crazy example why mid-season 1 might be a premature time to question the hire.

1979-80 Duke went 24-9, won the ACC championship & reached the Elite 8. In March 1980 Duke needed a new HC & hired a Bobby Knight assistant & former Army player. Alumni & fans exclaimed “Mike who?” After all, the guy didn’t have the bonafides to be a HC anywhere, much less the ACC.

This new coach followed his predecessor’s conference championship & 24-9 Elite 8 in 1980-81 with 17-13 (8-8). Don’t think the Duke faithful was very happy with that. Just imagine how they felt the next two seasons when the new hire coached the team to 10-17 (4-10) and 11-17 (3-11).

A new freshman recruiting class arrived in season 3, 1982. And there began the rest of the story. Now I’m not naive enough to think CDS will lead GT’s program to the same achievements as Duke attained with Coach K. I am no basketball wizard. Merely a logical fan of a sport that has a way of defying logic. So left with only my own opinion and misguided assessment, I think Damon Stoudamire was a brilliant hire, has and is doing the best he can with a team that is mostly a carryover with fill-in spare parts and taking giant leaps on the recruitment trail, with his truly first incoming freshman class having the potential to begin the return of GT basketball to what CDS stated his intent was when hired.

 

[Connell62]

If you don't have an axe to grind with Damon, like the poster above has since day one, then you clearly see that what he is saying is true. We do have a lot of mental lapses, we do lack toughness, and many of our guys haven't been held to a standard. Miles Kelly has never been THE guy on a winning team. We all loved Josh the man, but now that he is gone, it seems clear that he wasn't demanding excellence.

Recruiting is at the highest point it has been since Hewitt, we have made HUGE strides in NIL - thanks to Damon and his networking, something Josh never did, but sure let's dwell on the negatives to date. At the end of the day, I think that it is just silly to question a coach halfway through his first year. Some of yall act like this team won 30 games last year. Let me remind you...We sucked!!

 

[LargeFO]

If you don't have an axe to grind with Damon, like the poster above has since day one, then you clearly see that what he is saying is true. We do have a lot of mental lapses, we do lack toughness, and many of our guys haven't been held to a standard. Miles Kelly has never been THE guy on a winning team. We all loved Josh the man, but now that he is gone, it seems clear that he wasn't demanding excellence.

Recruiting is at the highest point it has been since Hewitt, we have made HUGE strides in NIL - thanks to Damon and his networking, something Josh never did, but sure let's dwell on the negatives to date. At the end of the day, I think that it is just silly to question a coach halfway through his first year. Some of yall act like this team won 30 games last year. Let me remind you...We sucked!!

Yea, nothing false about the Kelly statement. It shows when the other team goes on a spurt, we to this stage don't have that leadership to try and shut it down quicker.

 

[57jacket]

Nobody exclaimed “Damon who?”, so maybe this is just one crazy example why mid-season 1 might be a premature time to question the hire.

1979-80 Duke went 24-9, won the ACC championship & reached the Elite 8. In March 1980 Duke needed a new HC & hired a Bobby Knight assistant & former Army player. Alumni & fans exclaimed “Mike who?” After all, the guy didn’t have the bonafides to be a HC anywhere, much less the ACC.

This new coach followed his predecessor’s conference championship & 24-9 Elite 8 in 1980-81 with 17-13 (8-8). Don’t think the Duke faithful was very happy with that. Just imagine how they felt the next two seasons when the new hire coached the team to 10-17 (4-10) and 11-17 (3-11).

A new freshman recruiting class arrived in season 3, 1982. And there began the rest of the story. Now I’m not naive enough to think CDS will lead GT’s program to the same achievements as Duke attained with Coach K. I am no basketball wizard. Merely a logical fan of a sport that has a way of defying logic. So left with only my own opinion and misguided assessment, I think Damon Stoudamire was a brilliant hire, has and is doing the best he can with a team that is mostly a carryover with fill-in spare parts and taking giant leaps on the recruitment trail, with his truly first incoming freshman class having the potential to begin the return of GT basketball to what CDS stated his intent was when hired.

Outstanding post. My feelings exactly. Well written too, which I'm terrible at.

 

[lv20gt]

If you don't have an axe to grind with Damon, like the poster above has since day one, then you clearly see that what he is saying is true.

We do have a lot of mental lapses, we do lack toughness, and many of our guys haven't been held to a standard. Miles Kelly has never been THE guy on a winning team. We all loved Josh the man, but now that he is gone, it seems clear that he wasn't demanding excellence.

So it's fair to say that Miles Kelly has never been the guy on a winning team but not fair to say that CDS hasn't ever been the head coach for a team that made the NCAAT? Because when that was brought up excuse after excuse was made. And you'd think that the guy who was a first team all american and led his team to the final four would take some responsibility for helping Miles become the guy on a winning team. But nope, Miles just needs to figure it out. Our players need to be held to a standard but what standard is CDS being held to? By many here? None. By himself? None?

It's not having an axe to grind just because I pointed out obvious red flags in the hire that you wanted to stick your head in the sand about.

You want to know what an actual coach sounds like after a bad loss. Here it is. Some quotes.

"It starts with me. #1 it starts with me. I got to find a way to get these guys ready to go."

"That's on me as a coach. I gotta find a way for us to be better. Hopefully I can find a way for us to not fail"

"It starts with me. I got to find a new way to motivate them then"

"But again, that starts with me. I got to change my approach, so we'll have a different approach and see what happens."

Go listen to the entire thing. It's only about 5 minutes. And he was also harsh on his players as well, even moreso than CDS. But he made it abundantly clear, repeatedly, about how he was the one responsible and flat out said that he had to change his approach. That is what having a standard actually looks like. That is what demanding excellence actually looks like. Not just for others, but most importantly for himself. And that is what is missing from CDS right now. He isn't, and seemingly nobody here is, holding him to any kind of standard.

 

[Peacone36]

You want AD Gueye.

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[alagold]

This team to me is exactly what a new coach with a bunch of new players looks like.--Inconsistent. But its his job to meld them in the right combination at the right time.There is some talent but with a FR ! PG and a FR ! lead big. Goodluck when the other guys are limited in ability esp in shooting -esp 3s and Fts..I didn't think we would miss the guy who is hurt ,for yr, but he is one who would DRIVE to the basket and force plays which nobody does much now . 5 FTs vs ND?

 

[spdrama]

So it's fair to say that Miles Kelly has never been the guy on a winning team but not fair to say that CDS hasn't ever been the head coach for a team that made the NCAAT? Because when that was brought up excuse after excuse was made. And you'd think that the guy who was a first team all american and led his team to the final four would take some responsibility for helping Miles become the guy on a winning team. But nope, Miles just needs to figure it out. Our players need to be held to a standard but what standard is CDS being held to? By many here? None. By himself? None?

It's not having an axe to grind just because I pointed out obvious red flags in the hire that you wanted to stick your head in the sand about.

You want to know what an actual coach sounds like after a bad loss. Here it is. Some quotes.

"It starts with me. #1 it starts with me. I got to find a way to get these guys ready to go."

"That's on me as a coach. I gotta find a way for us to be better. Hopefully I can find a way for us to not fail"

"It starts with me. I got to find a new way to motivate them then"

"But again, that starts with me. I got to change my approach, so we'll have a different approach and see what happens."

Go listen to the entire thing. It's only about 5 minutes. And he was also harsh on his players as well, even moreso than CDS. But he made it abundantly clear, repeatedly, about how he was the one responsible and flat out said that he had to change his approach. That is what having a standard actually looks like. That is what demanding excellence actually looks like. Not just for others, but most importantly for himself. And that is what is missing from CDS right now. He isn't, and seemingly nobody here is, holding him to any kind of standard.

You deny having an axe to grind, yet offer post-loss quotes from someone you are obviously enamored of, referring to him as an “actual coach” in contrast to CDS, who is what? An alleged coach? A hypothetical or theoretical coach? Or maybe in your eyes a wannabe coach? No, you have no axe to grind. No, you don’t choose disrespectful rhetoric to blame a coach, whose hire you disagreed with, for losses. I almost get the feeling you actually enjoy seeing GT lose, just to get another opportunity to fire away a new forum bash at their alleged coach.

Micah Shrewsberry, who you quote, must be your kind of guy. I guess his stellar coaching resume far excels that of CDS, huh? You did a nice job of cherry-picking his quotes. But these quotes didn’t just come from a mere press conference. They came from what Sports Illustrated described, following a mid-December home loss to The Citadel as a

“…scathing and viral rant….” You left out the best part of your guy’s quote as noted by SI, “Notre Dame men’s basketball coach Micah Shrewsberry ripped his team after an embarrassing 65–45 loss to The Citadel. In his powerful postgame rant, he said he’d help players transfer from the Fighting Irish if they didn’t play hard.

“We’re building a culture, and that ain’t it,” Shrewsberry said. “That is not the culture we’re trying to build. So, a message needs to be sent to some of these guys, like, if you don’t play hard, then you can sit and rot over there on the bench. And I’ll find a way.

“I’ll go and talk to the people in compliance,” he continued. “I will help you transfer. Because this culture is getting built the right way, and if you ain’t part of it, you’re out!”

That’s the post-loss coach’s response you favor. I don’t know whether to scratch my head or shake it. My preference is for the way GT’s “quite real” head coach talks to and about his players, as observed in his pressers and reported by players’ parents.

Watching and listening to Shrewsberry & Stoudamire, back to back, I challenge anyone to agree with your assessment of either.