1/13 - MBB vs. Duke

[GaTech4ever]

How was it at Cameron?

It was great, my first time seeing Duke there without K. Obviously still a super tough/the toughest environment, but Duke doesn’t seem to put the same fear in their opponent at home like they did under K. I think that’s to be expected though.

The Cameron crowd used to have a certain edge throughout the game, even from tip-off, that opponents would feel throughout. But they were not as raucous to start today and only got Cameron-level loud a few times in the second half. The Duke fan next to me commented it seemed like the fans slept-walked until mid second half. So maybe it was a one-off thing. But the crowd just didn’t seem as sure of themselves now, but again how could anyone expect them to be?

 

[GT33]

Two minutes in, two fouls. Very prescient there 33.

It was dook, that's how the script works. We have 1 very good player, get him benched and the rest of their crappy team has a chance to win. Hard to say the 13 mins Ndongo was benched in the 1st half wasn't worth 6 or 8 pts and swung a close game to them. Foul #1 was BS, he owned #2, but the odds were extremely high (damn near 100%) that Ndongo was going to be in foul trouble early in this game.

 

[spdrama]

Watching this young man play has been one of the highlights of the season for me. His attitude & communication skills are that of a team leader, but he was too new to just unilaterally takeover that role. These players have won games before, including some big ones, but being so young and new, they never quite looked like a team; never quite looked like they were having fun; never quite looked like everyone was on the same page. Watching last night I just got a sense that they might be very close to figuring out, both how to play as a team, and how much fun that can be. And in a very unusual environment against a very tough opponent to get a taste of both. Much of that I attribute to this young man, who now looks like the de facto team leader to me.

 

[57jacket]

Georgia Tech comes up short at No. 11 Duke

Duke made enough plays down the stretch to avoid an upset and a second consecutive loss to the Yellow Jackets.

www.ajc.com

 

[Techster]

One thing I liked about the game yesterday, at least the broadcast, was one of the announcers breaking down our pick and roll sets. Some of us have called it "iso ball", but you can see what Stoudamire is doing in terms of giving his players freedoms, but also putting pressure on the defense at all 3 levels.

When we get better shooters and guys who can create off the bounce, this is going to be REALLY fun on the offense side of the ball. Watching the explanation of a pick and roll set, you can see how each guy off the pick and roll has multiple options if their shot isn't there.

The thing is, GT gets a LOT of open looks off these plays, we're just not finishing it. How many times have we seen missed layups (too many), the chance for our bigs to slam it in someone's face but they opt instead for a layup (which they miss), or a kickout 3 which our shooters don't take advantage of.

When GT gets someone who can handle the ball and make shots on all 3 levels, that player will be DANGEROUS in this offense. You get a glimpse of it when Kelly has the ball, but as they pointed out in the telecast, Kelly's shot off the bounce isn't great. You see it some with Sturdy and Reeves.

 

[GTHomer]

You can't help but like the development that we are seeing with George as the season progresses. As he becomes a threat with the 3 ball, it will make it easier for him to drive into the paint. If he develops a 'jump stop' shot to go along with the lobs to the big men, he will also become more difficult to defend. It looks as though he has a good shot but likely deferred to the upperclassmen guards on the team in prior games. He just needs to get the FTs down given he will be a ball handler late in games. Looks like he has the shooting form to hit at an 80% or higher rate.

It was also good to see an Abram sighting, albeit for 3 minutes in the game. I recall coaches instructing players that playing tough defense can get you on the court. If Abram can help the team in that area in the interim, he can likely get more PT. Though he is likely a transfer candidate, it would be interesting to see how he can contribute.

 

[slugboy]

One thing I liked about the game yesterday, at least the broadcast, was one of the announcers breaking down our pick and roll sets. Some of us have called it "iso ball", but you can see what Stoudamire is doing in terms of giving his players freedoms, but also putting pressure on the defense at all 3 levels.

When we get better shooters and guys who can create off the bounce, this is going to be REALLY fun on the offense side of the ball. Watching the explanation of a pick and roll set, you can see how each guy off the pick and roll has multiple options if their shot isn't there.

The thing is, GT gets a LOT of open looks off these plays, we're just not finishing it. How many times have we seen missed layups (too many), the chance for our bigs to slam it in someone's face but they opt instead for a layup (which they miss), or a kickout 3 which our shooters don't take advantage of.

When GT gets someone who can handle the ball and make shots on all 3 levels, that player will be DANGEROUS in this offense. You get a glimpse of it when Kelly has the ball, but as they pointed out in the telecast, Kelly's shot off the bounce isn't great. You see it some with Sturdy and Reeves.

There’s a spot where one option is to penetrate in the paint, but we’re getting stopped and taking shots from the top of the key. It’s nearly 3 point distance—definitely not a layup under the basket—and not a high percentage shot. I would think the design is either to penetrate more or have someone crash the board for an easy layup. When that second option becomes more effective, we’ll make a ton more baskets

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It was great, my first time seeing Duke there without K. Obviously still a super tough/the toughest environment, but Duke doesn’t seem to put the same fear in their opponent at home like they did under K. I think that’s to be expected though.

The Cameron crowd used to have a certain edge throughout the game, even from tip-off, that opponents would feel throughout. But they were not as raucous to start today and only got Cameron-level loud a few times in the second half. The Duke fan next to me commented it seemed like the fans slept-walked until mid second half. So maybe it was a one-off thing. But the crowd just didn’t seem as sure of themselves now, but again how could anyone expect them to be?

Coach K, and I hope no one takes this the wrong way, seemed to encourage his players, and the crowd, to bring out their good squad mentality. Even the refs seemed to feel intimidated by him. It worked to make that a poisonous venue for visiting teams.

Contrast that with the “thriller dome” where Cremens was kind of the sunshine warrior and the crowd exhibited thunderous exultation in close, important games. I’m exaggerating the difference some but Cameron with coach K always felt a little darker to me.

 

[Root4GT]

One thing I liked about the game yesterday, at least the broadcast, was one of the announcers breaking down our pick and roll sets. Some of us have called it "iso ball", but you can see what Stoudamire is doing in terms of giving his players freedoms, but also putting pressure on the defense at all 3 levels.

When we get better shooters and guys who can create off the bounce, this is going to be REALLY fun on the offense side of the ball. Watching the explanation of a pick and roll set, you can see how each guy off the pick and roll has multiple options if their shot isn't there.

The thing is, GT gets a LOT of open looks off these plays, we're just not finishing it. How many times have we seen missed layups (too many), the chance for our bigs to slam it in someone's face but they opt instead for a layup (which they miss), or a kickout 3 which our shooters don't take advantage of.

When GT gets someone who can handle the ball and make shots on all 3 levels, that player will be DANGEROUS in this offense. You get a glimpse of it when Kelly has the ball, but as they pointed out in the telecast, Kelly's shot off the bounce isn't great. You see it some with Sturdy and Reeves.

Randolph Childress really did do a great job of breaking down how GT runs our offense. George and Ndongo are very good at it for 2 freshmen. Kelly actually did a nice job running it a few times as well.

Reeves is a solid wing player. You can see this team is close to being a good team. Right now they are not a good team. Too many defensive breakdowns. Really good PGs can break down our defense.

This group is fun to watch. The improvement in Ndongo and George is noticeable.

Likely the team will play a lot of close games and come up on the short end this year. Still fun to watch them.

 

[MtnWasp]

Great game. It came down to a few pivotal possessions at the end, and again, we didn't make the plays. The fumbled pass out of bounds by Coleman. Kelly picked up his dribble at the left elbow and no one came to rescue him and we turned it over on a gap intercepted pass. The George's missed three. And that was that.

We shot over 54% from the floor and 55% from three at Cameron. Our guys did a great job of plying through the officials Duke-heavy whistles. That was outstanding.

One official's non call still bothers me. Claude receives a baseline entry lob and the Duke player collides with Claude with enough force to jolt the 236 pound Claude and the ball gets knocked out of bounds over the end line. No call. Duke ball. There is no "angle" issue or "bang-bang" issue here. No way they miss it. The Duke player basically ran right through Claude after Claude received the ball. That call has to made 100 out of 100 times. WTF?

I understand the George 3 attempt. He was feeling it. Didn't care for it, though. But George had a great game. In the first half they put a lot of ball pressure on George so we made the adjustment to just allow Kelly to bring the ball up the court and they did not bother to pressure Kelly. Apparently, Scheyer does not want the ball in George's hands, especially in transition. Good strategy. That allowed Duke to set up defensively.

George finished with 5 assists and only one turnover. George reminds me of the Freshman Alvarado. In his Freshman year and on a struggling team, Alvarado took a lot of long jumpers in clutch situations and missed them. Alvarado was not a good percentage shooter early in his career. They were open looks, they were not "bad" shots as no one else on that team were clutch-moment scorers. I think it says a lot about why George is good and is going to be real good. He is willing to stick his nose in the action and that Cameron is not too big for him. Before his career is over, he is going to be considered among other top GT PGs

Abram played! What does it mean?! Could we get a late season backcourt scoring boost???

Gapare looked good. We desperately need another productive post player. Unfortunately, he is not really a true post player, he is more of a wing. He doesn't rebound, but he does block shots! He has the potential to be a transition monster. There is hope here.

Kelly played hard on both ends and looked good.

 

[alagold]

We match up well against Duke. Other than Filipkowski (sp). This was a credible performance by Tech.

My question for the basketball gurus is this. Is this the best this team can play? I ask because I sense that it is. We might get better breaks, more favorable calls from refs, make fewer turntables and win a game or two like this but this feels like our ceiling.

What do others think?

I didn't see the game but I saw the stats and except for the obvious foul deficit and TOs ,it looked good..We didn't "win" any big category(FG,%,,3pt, FTs,Rebs and TOs) but we played close so maybe it is very close to our ceiling at this point.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Coach K, and I hope no one takes this the wrong way, seemed to encourage his players, and the crowd, to bring out their good squad mentality. Even the refs seemed to feel intimidated by him. It worked to make that a poisonous venue for visiting teams.

Contrast that with the “thriller dome” where Cremens was kind of the sunshine warrior and the crowd exhibited thunderous exultation in close, important games. I’m exaggerating the difference some but Cameron with coach K always felt a little darker to me.

This should have read “goon squad” by the way. I wanted say “thug” but that word is not used today the way it was in my youth and has racist overtones. Anyway, the mob mentality with hints of violence worked well for K to get a home court advantage.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I didn't see the game but I saw the stats and except for the obvious foul deficit and TOs ,it looked good..We didn't "win" any big category(FG,%,,3pt, FTs,Rebs and TOs) but we played close so maybe it is very close to our ceiling at this point.

I think it is our ceiling with the caveat that playing a cleaner game with fewer fouls and turnovers and we win at least 50% of the time vs top opponents.

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

One thing I liked about the game yesterday, at least the broadcast, was one of the announcers breaking down our pick and roll sets. Some of us have called it "iso ball", but you can see what Stoudamire is doing in terms of giving his players freedoms, but also putting pressure on the defense at all 3 levels.

When we get better shooters and guys who can create off the bounce, this is going to be REALLY fun on the offense side of the ball. Watching the explanation of a pick and roll set, you can see how each guy off the pick and roll has multiple options if their shot isn't there.

The thing is, GT gets a LOT of open looks off these plays, we're just not finishing it. How many times have we seen missed layups (too many), the chance for our bigs to slam it in someone's face but they opt instead for a layup (which they miss), or a kickout 3 which our shooters don't take advantage of.

When GT gets someone who can handle the ball and make shots on all 3 levels, that player will be DANGEROUS in this offense. You get a glimpse of it when Kelly has the ball, but as they pointed out in the telecast, Kelly's shot off the bounce isn't great. You see it some with Sturdy and Reeves.

I think I am beginning to see what the team is being taught and beginning to do on the court. Coach's background is built around the basketball 101 fundamentals of the screen, involving 2 or more players, being the player with the ball, the screener, and the other three being in place to take advantage of the screen, either shooting or rebounding. That takes a team effort to pull off, plus individual fundamental basketball skills. There are 28 different types of screens, and I have been able to observe attempts at 4 or 5 being tried, including the high screen, pick and pop, UCLA screen, and the ghost screen. A good tutorial of the 28 screens and how to defend them can be found at https://hoopstudent.com/basketball-screens/ .

Our current team, consisting of 9 guards and 7 forwards of various levels of all-star fame from 6 countries and learning basketball from over 20 high schools or colleges not including AAU team coaches, may never have been exposed to being taught the simple to complex art of screening that it appears that Coach Stoudamire mentions and is beginning to teach. Also I see this segment of offensive patterns from other college teams and most pro teams, and especially high school AAU teams. I am pretty certain the coaches are also teaching defense of the screen, and all 16 players are getting practice in both the offense and defense of team play in practice involving the screen. I see progress being made, as well as individual skills to avoid fundamental mistakes. I think we will sneak up on several more teams this year as the team buys into and learns the coaches' intent. That is where individual and team attitude comes in and we are making progress there.

Clemson will be a challenge as they try to do the same style of offense as Tech starting three seniors, a junior, and a sophmore, but I believe we are practiced for them. Littlejohn is a tough arena to play with the down fans in your face. Believe it or not, 56 years ago our Georgia Tech freshman team of 1968-69 played the first game in the new Littlejohn Coliseum and they had new uniforms. I scored the first two points in and we beat their freshman team 81-67.

For the UVA game on Jan 20, The Georgia Tech men''s basketball letterwinners will be honored for the 39th consecutive year since 1985 when Coach Cremins began the annual Letterwinners game. I will not be able to make it this year because I am still recovering from cancer and my wife has cancer surgery that week. Go Jackets!

 

[57jacket]

I think I am beginning to see what the team is being taught and beginning to do on the court. Coach's background is built around the basketball 101 fundamentals of the screen, involving 2 or more players, being the player with the ball, the screener, and the other three being in place to take advantage of the screen, either shooting or rebounding. That takes a team effort to pull off, plus individual fundamental basketball skills. There are 28 different types of screens, and I have been able to observe attempts at 4 or 5 being tried, including the high screen, pick and pop, UCLA screen, and the ghost screen. A good tutorial of the 28 screens and how to defend them can be found at https://hoopstudent.com/basketball-screens/ .

Our current team, consisting of 9 guards and 7 forwards of various levels of all-star fame from 6 countries and learning basketball from over 20 high schools or colleges not including AAU team coaches, may never have been exposed to being taught the simple to complex art of screening that it appears that Coach Stoudamire mentions and is beginning to teach. Also I see this segment of offensive patterns from other college teams and most pro teams, and especially high school AAU teams. I am pretty certain the coaches are also teaching defense of the screen, and all 16 players are getting practice in both the offense and defense of team play in practice involving the screen. I see progress being made, as well as individual skills to avoid fundamental mistakes. I think we will sneak up on several more teams this year as the team buys into and learns the coaches' intent. That is where individual and team attitude comes in and we are making progress there.

Clemson will be a challenge as they try to do the same style of offense as Tech starting three seniors, a junior, and a sophmore, but I believe we are practiced for them. Littlejohn is a tough arena to play with the down fans in your face. Believe it or not, 56 years ago our Georgia Tech freshman team of 1968-69 played the first game in the new Littlejohn Coliseum and they had new uniforms. I scored the first two points in and we beat their freshman team 81-67.

For the UVA game on Jan 20, The Georgia Tech men''s basketball letterwinners will be honored for the 39th consecutive year since 1985 when Coach Cremins began the annual Letterwinners game. I will not be able to make it this year because I am still recovering from cancer and my wife has cancer surgery that week. Go Jackets!

Clemson worries me because they have a strong inside game which gives us trouble. Duke star is tall, but not the strong inside defensive player. IMHO

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think I am beginning to see what the team is being taught and beginning to do on the court. Coach's background is built around the basketball 101 fundamentals of the screen, involving 2 or more players, being the player with the ball, the screener, and the other three being in place to take advantage of the screen, either shooting or rebounding. That takes a team effort to pull off, plus individual fundamental basketball skills. There are 28 different types of screens, and I have been able to observe attempts at 4 or 5 being tried, including the high screen, pick and pop, UCLA screen, and the ghost screen. A good tutorial of the 28 screens and how to defend them can be found at https://hoopstudent.com/basketball-screens/ .

Our current team, consisting of 9 guards and 7 forwards of various levels of all-star fame from 6 countries and learning basketball from over 20 high schools or colleges not including AAU team coaches, may never have been exposed to being taught the simple to complex art of screening that it appears that Coach Stoudamire mentions and is beginning to teach. Also I see this segment of offensive patterns from other college teams and most pro teams, and especially high school AAU teams. I am pretty certain the coaches are also teaching defense of the screen, and all 16 players are getting practice in both the offense and defense of team play in practice involving the screen. I see progress being made, as well as individual skills to avoid fundamental mistakes. I think we will sneak up on several more teams this year as the team buys into and learns the coaches' intent. That is where individual and team attitude comes in and we are making progress there.

Clemson will be a challenge as they try to do the same style of offense as Tech starting three seniors, a junior, and a sophmore, but I believe we are practiced for them. Littlejohn is a tough arena to play with the down fans in your face. Believe it or not, 56 years ago our Georgia Tech freshman team of 1968-69 played the first game in the new Littlejohn Coliseum and they had new uniforms. I scored the first two points in and we beat their freshman team 81-67.

For the UVA game on Jan 20, The Georgia Tech men''s basketball letterwinners will be honored for the 39th consecutive year since 1985 when Coach Cremins began the annual Letterwinners game. I will not be able to make it this year because I am still recovering from cancer and my wife has cancer surgery that week. Go Jackets!

This was a stellar post! Thank you so much.

 

[YlJacket]

Yeah, a lot of our turnovers are very frustrating to watch. One that really kills me but happens way too frequently is a guard picking up their dribble 30 feet from the basket or a guard giving up the ball to a big 30 feet from the basket. There should be very few defenders capable of forcing a good point guard or shooting guard into picking up their dribble or looking for a bail out from a non-ball handler that far from the basket. I think it stems from a lack of confidence. That being said, usually when this happens, no one comes to help.

That started happening about mid way through the second half and IMHO was the difference in the game. We had weathered the initial foul trouble and were doing OK with their double big lineup. We were able to initiate our high screen around the top of the key and get into the paint to get things going. Then after one of the TO's Duke came back with significantly increased energy and intensity as they often did under K. They were making the effort to force Nait or Miles 4 to 5 feet beyond the arc to initiate the offense instead of close to the top of the key. And instead of going under our high screen or getting picked enough to give Nait a half step into the lane - they were making the effort to get over the top of the screen preventing any penetration to the lane. That was when we went from up to down 8 or so.

I thought it would be over at that point so I was really encouraged to see them come back and take the lead after that. That is some of the mental toughness CDS is preaching. But you have to be tough enough to get to your spots with the ball so you can run the offense near the 3 point line and not by the logo. Several (not all) of the turnovers late in the game were a return to getting pushed out to start the offense.

This is the thing I am looking for Nait to improve on as he matures - keeping defenses from being able to pressure him off his spot where he wants to go. Part of it is experience and part is a bit more muscle and bulk as I don't think he is the kind of guard who is just too quick to pressure. He is more like Sturdivant in that regard - though with more quicks than him.

Yesterday was disappointing but heartening at the same time. Coming back and retaking the lead was the highlight to me. Inability to make a play at the end kind of sucked.

 

[gte447f]

I didn't see the game but I saw the stats and except for the obvious foul deficit and TOs ,it looked good..We didn't "win" any big category(FG,%,,3pt, FTs,Rebs and TOs) but we played close so maybe it is very close to our ceiling at this point.

We did win several key stats. We shot 55%/55%, which were both better than Duke. We also out rebounded Duke overall, but got beat handily on the offensive boards. We lost the turnover battle badly too. So our offense outperformed their offense, but they made up the difference with second chance points and points off turnovers.

Then the killer was that we really lost the game at the free throw line. 20/28 to 8/12 was too much to overcome. The Duke free throw disparity is a given. What else is new.

 

[YlJacket]

One thing I liked about the game yesterday, at least the broadcast, was one of the announcers breaking down our pick and roll sets. Some of us have called it "iso ball", but you can see what Stoudamire is doing in terms of giving his players freedoms, but also putting pressure on the defense at all 3 levels.

When we get better shooters and guys who can create off the bounce, this is going to be REALLY fun on the offense side of the ball. Watching the explanation of a pick and roll set, you can see how each guy off the pick and roll has multiple options if their shot isn't there.

The thing is, GT gets a LOT of open looks off these plays, we're just not finishing it. How many times have we seen missed layups (too many), the chance for our bigs to slam it in someone's face but they opt instead for a layup (which they miss), or a kickout 3 which our shooters don't take advantage of.

When GT gets someone who can handle the ball and make shots on all 3 levels, that player will be DANGEROUS in this offense. You get a glimpse of it when Kelly has the ball, but as they pointed out in the telecast, Kelly's shot off the bounce isn't great. You see it some with Sturdy and Reeves.

It may be syntax but at its core our high screen set is all about spacing and iso. In generalities, we only set one or maybe 2 screens up top and then everything is based on either the role or forcing help from the wing. Beyond the initial roll, the goal is to get the ball to a wing against a defender who helped and is not closing out. The wing then is iso'd and has to beat the close out - either shoot, drive and score or drive and kick to another wing if secondary help comes. It shouldn't be "hero" ball but IMHO it definitely is "ISO" ball.

That's why I do agree with your last paragraph - you need players who can handle and take close outs off the bounce - and shoot off the bounce.

 

[YlJacket]

Gapare looked good. We desperately need another productive post player. Unfortunately, he is not really a true post player, he is more of a wing. He doesn't rebound, but he does block shots! He has the potential to be a transition monster. There is hope here.

Kelly played hard on both ends and looked good.

Gapare is a major key to this scheme going forward. But he is a stretch 4 in this concept and not another post player. This is not and really cannot be a double post concept.

In the second half Duke forced us to go big with Ndongo and Claude at the same time to match up with Young and Flip. Young then ignored Claude and sat in the lane waiting on the roll. Gummed our offense all up notwithstanding the one cut Claude made trying to jam the ball.

If we are going to keep Ndongo at the 5 as I expect we are (not totally sure) then we need a better backup post player and more options at a stretch 4 who can bang with a Young on occasion but abuse a Young in space.