Youth Trip, ACC Politics, Personal Decisions

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
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I have been dreading posting this. It may be that this belongs in a different forum or even no forum at all as it enters into politcal and religious topics. But, the NCAA, ACC, and GT have crossed those lines, so it's unavoidable at this point to keep from them. And, I think you all should know about some of the lasting harm that this has caused and will cause to some in the GT community (and in turn to GT). I just need to let you all know what happened.


So ..., As many of you may remember, I had planned a trip for our youth group to go to the GT-Miami game. Several of you generously donated money to help fund this trip. We ended up with 26 youth and 15 adults signed up to go to the game (almost all of whom would be attending their first College Football game ever). I bought 41 tickets for $35 each (group rate). To keep it simple, I bought the tickets myself and had given the donated money to the church to then reimburse me. Those checks remain in the church safe, undeposited.


One week after I bought the tickets, the whole NCAA-ACC-Bud Peterson action against the state of North Carolina happened ... Since the day I read about it, I haven't touched a GT forum, watched a single sporting event, or even worn a GT emblem. I have loved GT football and GT itself since I stepped foot on campus in '99. If I was relaxing or killing time, it was likely to involve GT sports. I am now 2 weeks removed from my once beloved habit. As much as I loved GT football, I love Jesus and my 2 daughters more. I know that statement will sound strange to some (and to others not strange at all). Here's the thing, I don't think it’s bigotry to believe an anatomical male should not be allowed into a female shower or changing facility. That to me seems like a stance from logic, science, respect for privacy and safety, and common sense (obviously, religion doesn't even have to enter into it to have that stance). 1 in 4 girls will undergo some type of sexual abuse, 99% of the time from a man. I can tell you several personal stories of females close to me (and sadly males also), and girls in our youth group who went through things like this. I can't conscionably support any entity who is fighting to make the world a more dangerous place for my daughters. And, I won't turn a blind eye and lead a church youth trip to cheer them on as if nothing is wrong.


I have emailed Dr. Peterson about this issue to try to better understand his side. I wanted to at least try to see if perhaps our views weren't as far off as they might seem. Perhaps there's something else to it that I didn't understand and would agree with if it were explained to me. This has proved fruitless so far as Dr. Peterson has been good enough to respond to my emails, but, to be honest, his answers have been mostly evasive and have not helped to explain his stance.


I called the GT ticket office to explain the situation to them and see if there would be any way to get a refund for our ticket purchase since we bought the tickets before Dr. Peterson and his colleagues took this action. They said they would have to call me back the next day with a decision. I didn't hear from them for a week even though I called them every day. They called back after the Clemson game to say that it was their policy to never give refunds. So, now we're stuck with a $1400+ bill for a church that has $800 in the bank. But, that's OK. I know it will cost to stand for what you believe in.


For those of you who donated so generously ... Thank you again so very much. I am so disappointed in this situation and to have to tell you that we will not be going to this game. We have not deposited any of your checks and will not do so. I know that you gave money to send kids to a GT game and since that isn't going to happen, you should not and will not be responsible for that cost. Unless you tell us otherwise, we will destroy the checks, and you are free to cancel them.


This whole thing has been a punch in the gut. I know it isn't the coaches and players. In fact, I bet if you poll them, they would probably not want men in the women's room either.


There's a lot more I could say. Franklin Graham's letter to Swofford and the ACC presidents says a lot of it: https://www.samaritanspurse.org/art...ound-hypocrisy-in-letter-to-acc-commissioner/

And, this short video eloquently summarizes the view of most in my "camp":


I think the craziness of the whole response of these corporations lies in its irony and hypocrisy. One question I still haven't asked Dr. Peterson that I would like to is: So, do you believe that the answer to what you perceive as discrimination is discrimination? It seems that you can't tell anyone they're wrong, unless of course, it’s to tell someone they’re wrong for telling someone they’re wrong. ... that’s the only objective truth the elites in our society stand for now … There is no truth. It's wrong to discriminate based on differing anatomy/biology (and privacy and safety) but it's fine to discriminate against others who hold a different view than you on a moral/political issue. It's the intolerance of those crying tolerance that is so ridiculous. I guess the entertainment industries and the big corporations are not going to allow states to govern themselves and will coerce them financially and otherwise to bow to their ideology of relativism with human pleasure and entertainment as its god.


Maybe I'm wrong about this whole thing. But, until someone can convince me otherwise, I must do what I believe is right. That said, I'm willing to listen.

If a mod feels the need to move or remove this, I understand.
 
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Location
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I agree with you 100% also, although I don't know that I would have taken it as far as you did. But I admire your principles and willingness to stand up for them. I too emailed Bud and got a canned response identical word for word with those he sent to others. I emailed him a second time and have never received even an acknowledgment of what I sent him.
 

gtg936g

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I completely understand your point, and I would advise you to follow your heart. I know this is a very difficult decision for you, and one you take seriously.

I am not trying to sway you, but I would ask that you consider one point.

Don't let the decisions of beurocrats prevent you from being the positive influence that you want to be. The kids probably don't follow politics or policies , and they won't remember why they didn't go to the game in 10 years. If you take them you have a chance to be a powerful positive influence on them. In 10 years they will remember that. Don't let the decisions of others hinder your work and message. Regardless of the ACC decisions, if through this trip you changed one of their lives in a positive way would you consider it a success? You have a much better chance of being the change in the world that you want to be by influencing young hearts and minds.
 

AE 87

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God bless you and your church, vamos.

In the early 19th century, de Tocqueville warned of the danger of the tyranny of the majority and how America had avoided it with the rule of law.

I think even he would be surprised by how a majority has been formed by the alliance of the stupid and the weak. The stupid accept whatever nonsense they're fed by the elites, and the weak say standing up to the social bullying isn't worth it.

Let's be clear. Practically everyone accepts the objective link between biology and gender roles. In addition to traditional views, Transgenderism assumes it, and the T in LGBT means it's accepted by the LGBs.

So, if the objective standard of sexuality is accepted practically universally, the only question is on what weight is placed on the subjective.

Here, we must recognize that there is not yet a public groundswell for adding the P of pedophilia to LGBT. In other words, they aren't operating with a consistent acceptance of the subjective. Instead, they rely on tradition and natural law to talk about consent rather than the 14th amendment rights of the pedophile--ignoring the fact that they've excluded tradition and natural law from the conversation about homosexuality. It's just ideology. It's just the desire to impose their immorality on the country thru law.

Social Conservatives should stand up. In fact, I think it would be commendable for them to cancel season tickets etc. Of course, the problem is that the kids suffer. Fans suffer. I don't know what the right decision is, but I support people trying to make it.
 

Tech93

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I too agree with you and commend you. I have stopped watching pro football due to the national anthem protests. I can't watch in good conscience to know that some of the finest men laid down their lives so that the same people protesting could make millions of dollars in a free country. I have also been reacessing my love for college football, although, I have been a season ticket holder and big supporter of GT for over 20 years. Although, Bud Peterson may think he is being politically correct, it just goes back to what one of the finest high school coaches used to tell our team..."if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything".
 

collegeballfan

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Welcome to the secular world we now live in Vamos. It is difficult to hold religious principles in the world.
Remember Jesus told us that even though we are in the world, we are not of the world. And we are treated harshly as a result.

None of us can tell you how to handle this. gtg93 above makes a good point. Are you letting others make your decision for you?
What about all those businesses that support and demand the action taken by the NCAA, ACC and GT? How do you handle them?

We will keep you in our prayers.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
I agree with you 100%. There have to be some basic morals that we as a society follow. There are reasons boys and girls don't share bathrooms. There are reasons we don't walk around naked. It really is getting absolutely insane.
 

AE 87

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I think it's a mistake to deny the kids a chance to see a college football game because of this. They are the ones you are punishing, not Bud Peterson.

@vamosjackets, I think this reaction will resonate with many. For your decision of conscience to have a bigger impact, you may want to consider contacting the press. The Baptist News Service might be able to get a sympathetic AP reporter to write the story with pictures of the kids.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
Tough situation and choice. Whatever your final decision is, please cash the check I sent and use the funds to benefit your group.

Peterson and Tech had no need to wade into this controversial issue. Abstentions aren't very heroic but that would have been a lot preferable to him throwing Tech into the middle of this. It's a huge hullabaloo over a tiny fraction of our population. If that population does need to be catered to in this circumstance, the answer is private / family style restrooms rather than public ones.

Gwinnett County schools thankfully told Obama and the Feds to pound sand on this one. The school system can and will cater to any students (of which I know none, but there could be) in need of special consideration, i.e. the use of teacher / admin / single occupancy bathrooms for any such students. But I agree it is wrong to force this political correctness upon the masses.

If the federal government wants to dictate special consideration for transgendered then they need to fund construction of seperate restrooms for same in every public building and any private buildings the wish to have comply. Then let them justify the tax cost to the public.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
I'm not trying to attack anyone with this question, but do you think Jesus would not go to the game for the reason you have given?

Interesting question and one can never go wrong by asking "what would Jesus do?" He did have something of a penchant for public protest. The money changers tables didn't turn over by themselves.
 

awbuzz

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I understand your decision. With that I would suggest being a good Steward of the funds sent to you for the express purpose to take the students to the game. Being a poor steward doesn't go over well according to to the story in Matthew 25.
Just saying that "punishing" the kids per se isn't the way I'd go.
 

jeffgt14

We don't quite suck as much anymore.
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Well you picked a good game to not watch. It’s a touchy situation as a whole and I’m not even sure you can put the blame on Bud. It’s Bud’s responsibility, just like any representative or president, to represent his people (or Institute) and make a decision based on a) what he feels is right and b) what the students and donors and those with any affiliation whatsoever to his Institute believe in. The question is, is what you or I or anyone on this forum agrees or disagrees with represent the majority of what all those affiliated to the GT believes?
 

jeffgt14

We don't quite suck as much anymore.
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Just thinking about this more and I have a couple issues (all my opinion of course):

1) The coaches and players have no part in any of this. Not bringing 41 people to cheer on a bunch of student athletes who are working their *** off is only doing them a disservice for something they have no involvement in.
2) If I were a kid looking forward to going to my first game of a team I cheer for I would be extremely crushed to not be able to go due to something I had no control over or even over an issue I may support myself. It’s one thing to maybe not buy tickets in the future because of this but to take something a kid may be excited about away the last minute is a little harsh.
 

forensicbuzz

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I find it interesting the support for @vamosjackets protest of what he feels is a morally corrupt action by a governing body (whether true or not) and the vitriol for Kaepernick's protest of what he feels is a morally corrupt government agency (whether true or not) from the same people. Similar (not the same) issue coming from opposite perspectives.

I'm not wading in on either side of these two issues, so don't attack me. I will say that boys should not be allowed in the girls' bathrooms/lockerrooms (and vise-versa), and I'd not allow a boy in a girls' bathroom with my daughters in there. However, bathrooms/lockerrooms should be a place anyone should be comfortable using, regardless of sex or gender identity. There are logical alternative solutions.

My advise to @vamosjackets is to think of this as a teaching opportunity for the children. There are going to be many times in these kids' lives as they grow up where policies and public decisions will be contrary to their beliefs. We choose the battles we want to fight. Pray for guidance about whether the message your trying to teach these kids could be taught without depriving them of the opportunity to attend the game. In the end, it is up to you and the other adult leadership within your church to decide what's best for your children.
 

AE 87

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I find it interesting the support for @vamosjackets protest of what he feels is a morally corrupt action by a governing body (whether true or not) and the vitriol for Kaepernick's protest of what he feels is a morally corrupt government agency (whether true or not) from the same people. Similar (not the same) issue coming from opposite perspectives.

I'm not wading in on either side of these two issues, so don't attack me. I will say that boys should not be allowed in the girls' bathrooms/lockerrooms (and vise-versa), and I'd not allow a boy in a girls' bathroom with my daughters in there. However, bathrooms/lockerrooms should be a place anyone should be comfortable using, regardless of sex or gender identity. There are logical alternative solutions.

My advise to @vamosjackets is to think of this as a teaching opportunity for the children. There are going to be many times in these kids' lives as they grow up where policies and public decisions will be contrary to their beliefs. We choose the battles we want to fight. Pray for guidance about whether the message your trying to teach these kids could be taught without depriving them of the opportunity to attend the game. In the end, it is up to you and the other adult leadership within your church to decide what's best for your children.

I appreciate your desire to claim the high ground and stay neutral. However, you suggested some may be guilty of inconsistency by asserting an equivalency between this decision and Kaepernik's.

Despite your protestation of not taking sides, you took a side, imo.

Let me explain my pov. On many controversial issues, differing opinions arise from different ways of framing the question rather than just different answers to the same question.

For example, those who favor abortion rights don't talk about mothers having the right to kill their children. That's not how they frame the question. Opponents of same sex marriage don't talk about limiting the rights of homosexuals because that's not how they frame the question.

In other words, how we frame the question on controversial issues often reflects the side we're on.

So, by correlating the two decisions you, iiuc, implicitly framed the two issues as a question of an individual's right to express protest thru actions. However, I don't recall the response against Kaepernik as primarily rejecting these rights. Rather, objections focused, iirc, primarily on the context of the protest (protesting the emblem of right to protest) and on the substance (whether America systematically oppresses African Americans). Reactions here are similar. Those who disagree with this decision don't deny he has the right but rather whether it's the correct thing to do.

My take, tifwiw.
 
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