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Youth Trip, ACC Politics, Personal Decisions

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by vamosjackets, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    I don't disagree with what you've said, mostly. However, I will say that most (obviously not all) of the reaction to Kaepernik has been about "how" he was protesting. Similarly, many have lauded vamosjackets for taking a stand against what he feels is representative of policies contrary to his beliefs. I'm not saying either is right or wrong in their beliefs or the way they're choosing to protest, just that some of the same fonts are reacting differently in what I consider a similar scenario.

    As for taking sides, my head and my heart don't always draw the same conclusions (or at least not as adamantly).
     
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  2. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Cool. Like I tried to say, I don't think people are responding to them on the terms of their similarity.
     
  3. awbuzz

    awbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    ...from another, it sounds like GTAA has allowed them the swap the tickets for the UVA game. This gives them opportunity to think more about it, or more time to try and sell the tickets to recoup some of the money.
     
    vamosjackets likes this.
  4. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    @forensicbuzz
    If Vamos had protested this issue by visibly protesting against our nation's anthem, I'd have criticized that too. The two scenarios are apples and oranges though.
     
    AE 87 likes this.
  5. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    They're different to you based on how you view the National Anthem. My thought is that what the National Anthem represents to you and what it represents to him are different. Without speaking to either of you, obviously this is an assumption. I am not chastising anyone for criticizing Kaepernik. You have the right to do that. I was just observing what is and is not considered an acceptible form of protest to people.
     
    Whiskey_Clear likes this.
  6. Northeast Stinger

    Northeast Stinger Helluva Engineer

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    I think you are on to something here.

    I am going to catch bloody hell for what I am gong to say now because, well, it is the times we live in and everyone has their own form of political correctness. But here it goes. I have heard Trump say things like, "American is a third world country, we are going to hell in a hand basket, black people live in slums and can't walk outside without getting shot, our schools are a disaster, America is weak, our military leaders are a disgrace, our armed services are in shambles, the middle class is being held down and no one can get ahead, the deck is stacked against working people" and on and on. But what is strange is that when someone of color expresses dissatisfaction with our country, Trump and his surrogates say, "Blacks need to respect this country, this is a country of opportunity, you can become anything you want to be and all that holds anyone back in this country is whether you want to work hard or not, you need to learn to respect the government and people in authority" and on and on that line of reasoning goes.

    My point is not whether either of these positions is right or wrong, my point is that I have a hard time understanding how someone can hold both positions at the same time. And it feels like I am seeing an awful lot of that these days.
     
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  7. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    wrong thread. If you want to open that discussion, start a new thread.
     
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  8. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    It seems to me, fwiw, that you're misunderstanding him. He's saying, iiuc, that for him the Kaepernik issue was about the national anthem and this issue is not. By making both about "acceptable form of protest," you are misrepresenting his position.
     
    Whiskey_Clear likes this.
  9. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    No, you are right about this. I think the anthem obviously means something far different than Kap does.

    It, and the flag too, both symbolize, to me, what should be uniting all of us together (despite political differences) and more importantly what so many have given their lives to protect. I'll pretty much defend any other form of protest anyone wants to make as long as it doesn't damage other people's property, harm others, or infringe on others' freedoms / rights (like human chains blocking freeways).
     
    forensicbuzz likes this.
  10. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

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    This is true. As of now, I suppose we will try to sell the tickets for the reason you stated above. So, if anyone has any interest in buying 41 tickets in a block, we have what you're looking for :) We bought them for $35/each so if anyone wants to buy them at that price, great! Or if you want to make an offer, I'm sure we'd be glad to entertain it as recouping some portion of it would still be extremely helpful to us.

    A few posters have gone above and beyond in their generosity and said for us to keep their checks as donations to our church or youth group to help with our situation. If we end up selling the tickets and recouping all or some of the money, I will give you an update on that so that you can decide if you still want to do that with your donation.

    Who knows? Maybe Dr. Peterson will email me something that totally changes the paradigm, and we can end up going.
     
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  11. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

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    And, I just really want to say how much I have appreciated the comments on this thread and in PM's. Even from people who don't agree 100%, the level of respect and quality of discourse on this board are exemplary. It's a blessing. Bravo to you all.

    Also, I want to be fair and say that the GT ticket office people I've talked with have been nice and seemingly sympathetic. And, Dr. Peterson has at least had the courtesy to email me back twice.
     
  12. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Fwiw, I think the challenge of this question arises from the difference in political context between 1st century Judea under Roman rule and 21st century American under a representative democracy. The type of political speech being discussed here would have been meaningless in Jesus' day.

    However, I think a case can be made that Jesus' principle of render to Caesar what is Caesar's can be applied in our context as being politically active and vocal within our representative democracy. So, since the policy being defended by Bud and the ACC runs counter to Jesus' teaching on what it means to be human and the nature of human sexuality under God, I think one could argue that Jesus might favor this kind of action.

    On the other hand, Jesus spent more time talking about his heavenly kingdom than earthly kingdom, so it may be that there's a difference between what Jesus would do and what he would want his disciples to do.
     
    vamosjackets likes this.
  13. TomOReilly

    TomOReilly Ramblin' Wreck

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    You had me until "On the other hand"
     
  14. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    why?
     
  15. TomOReilly

    TomOReilly Ramblin' Wreck

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    I really liked the first part, BUT...

    I tend to believe Jesus gave us many examples of what and how to live our lives on Earth and would believe His disciples should follow Him. Basically, saying there should be no difference despite how hard it is to accomplish.
     
  16. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Oh, okay, no worries.

    Just to explain: I was thinking it might be like Jesus, after his resurrection, sending his disciples on an intentional mission to convert the non-Jews while he didn't do that but focused on reaching "the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:24) While Jesus' life offers many examples to be emulated, Christians have typically believed that he had a unique mission and that he gave his followers a particular mission and that are two are not identical, though related. I'm not saying that this is the right answer to the question but a potential alternative. tifwiw
     
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  17. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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  18. TomOReilly

    TomOReilly Ramblin' Wreck

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    @vamosjackets - I have my daughter and niece coming to ATL this weekend and I can buy 2 tickets. PM me is interested
     
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  19. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

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    Whiskey_Clear likes this.
  20. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

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    Thanks Tom. The GT ticket office switched our tickets from the Miami game to the UVA game to allow us more time to either resolve the issue (unlikely but possible, depending on Dr. Peterson) or to sell the tickets.

    I may be able to call the ticket office again and switch 2 of the tickets back to the Miami game to sell to you. Would you like for me to do that? I'll send you a PM and we can continue this conversation that way.
     

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