WTF happened...sorta rant

Messages
13,443
Location
Augusta, GA
You must be young and have no knowledge of GT athletics.

First, Rice didn't hire Curry. Once again you have your facts wrong.

Secondly, even if he had, he would have done us a favor. We were about to go 1-AA. Our facilities were the worst in the nation--Bear Bryant would not let his team dress in the visitors locker room. We had no money. Our de facto head recruiter--someone I knew, but I won't post her name--was an administrator at the AA. And yes, Bobby Dodd the AD was to blame for much of this.

Curry was about all we could attract at the time. He pulled the program up from where it was in 1979. He did a good enough job that Alabama hired him--with Bobby Dodd's blessing. I have never understood why anyone is critical of a great Tech Man like Bill Curry. Ignorance of the facts is the only explanation.

Homer Rice is the most important figure in GT history. He took a program that was about to go 1-AA to a national championship in football and a final four in basketball 10 years later, while also building a baseball world series runner up 4 years later and a perennial national contender in golf. He also corrected the Lewis mistake by hiring O'Leary as DC--Rice stepped in and made that hire, not Lewis. O'Leary was the last coach to have 5 (I believe) top 25 finishes, and beat UGa 3 in a row.

So you say Homer Rice never did us any favors?

Kim King, assuming you know who he was, made a lot of money. His money and his reputation as one of Dodd's boys gave him tremendous clout. He had good judgment in business and in athletics. He had tremendous credibility with the administration and the athletic board. He and Homer were a powerful combination.

I won't even go into the combination of Clough and Braine. What a disaster. They set a decline in motion, both with regard to finances and general decision making. The athletic board is now dominated by academics and donors that either don't understand or don't care about winning at a high level.

I could go on, but that's enough.
Either Rice hired Curry, or Dodd, did, since they were both hired in 1980. I guess Dodd probably did. You may choose to like Curry, but I think he was terrible coach, and I was glad that Bama was stupid enough to hire him.
"Homer Rice is the most important figure in GT history"??? I disagree there. Yes, he did some great things while at Tech; I will not argue that. With him, I guess it's just a matter of differing opinions. I am not alone in disliking him, but you DO make some valid points.
Someone, either you or upstateJacket, seemed at least to imply that Kim King was a disaster for Tech. I had not ever been of that opinion, and I wanted to know why he was included in what I perceived to be a slam on him. You are right, though; he did have considerable clout at Tech, and I am glad he did. There have been other former Tech players who made it big in life, who have, regardless of motivation, not served us so well.
As far as my age, I am not happy in saying that I am probably older than you. I have been around Tech, both as student and alum for a LONG LONG time.
Totally agree about Clough and Braine, but I would add DRad to that list. Yes, he raised a lot of money, but he also ignored the fans and alums and, at least in my opinion, threw Johnson under the bus on the NCAA investigation.
I agree that O'Leary produced some great teams and talent; I would never argue that point. If he hadn't been greedy and felt the call of Notre Dame, he would have probably stayed at Tech (successfully) until he retired, false resume or no false resume. I didn't, however, care much for the way he often treated some of his players. Joe Burns comes immediately to mind, although I have heard that Joe Burns, to this day, loves the man.
 
Last edited:
Messages
13,443
Location
Augusta, GA
In fact two of his best years were because of Chan's players. He's actually only had one good year. I will go as far as to say if he hadn't had Josh Nesbit for his first QB, the win/loss record you keeping popping off with would not be any where it is. He carried a not so good football team to several wins.
Since Johnson was Nesbitt's coach, I give Johnson credit for his development and production.
 
Messages
1,403
First I have not mentioned Kim King. Although he is a Tech great. You definitely have a hard time keeping your point straight. We are talking about Paul getting his players in and when he will be held accountable for his players. So let me understand, 8 years is not enough time, but Josh Nesbit, Roddy Jones, Dwyer, BeBe, and all the players brought in by Gailey is good for you? Seriously, you are a have your cake and eat it kind of guy? The wheels of the bus go round and round.
 

Bogey

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,733
He has had 2 great seasons (both with 11 wins), and going into this year, he had the highest winning percentage of any Tech coach since Dodd (62.4%). That's not the record of a perennially bad coach!!! Even with this miserable season, his winning percentage will be either 58.6% or 59.6%, depending on the outcome Saturday. Both percentages still rank as second best since Dodd.
Last 4 years with his own players will be 54% if we beat UGA, 52% if we don't, not counting bowl games. Gaileys last four years was 62% and was fired. Not defending Chan, just saying. My biggest concern is that he doesn't and can't recruit the talent that is required to run his offense consistently in today's competition for talent. I see us losing ground to UNC and Duke because of his lack of recruiting ability. Maybe I'm wrong, but our direction certainly needs review by the powers that matter.
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
Last 4 years with his own players will be 54% if we beat UGA, 52% if we don't, not counting bowl games. Gaileys last four years was 62% and was fired. Not defending Chan, just saying. My biggest concern is that he doesn't and can't recruit the talent that is required to run his offense consistently in today's competition for talent. I see us losing ground to UNC and Duke because of his lack of recruiting ability. Maybe I'm wrong, but our direction certainly needs review by the powers that matter.
Losing ground to UNC and DUKE is unacceptable, however I see the recruiting situation differently then you. I see that the 2014 class (22) & the 2015 class (27) as great recruiting years and partly that is because of Ted Rood/Mike Pelton/Brian Cook!! We are 3-8 heading into COFH week and have 10 solid for 2016 with an LSU OL recruit thinking of flipping to us.

I think our recruiting has picked up and once this senior class moves on our team will be better for it!! However if we keep losing ground to DUKE & UNC, (We already get waxed by Miami/VT/UGA on the regular...see the 2-6 records) The coaching staff will all be looking for new jobs!! We can not lose ground to DUKE & UNC!!
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
Here is what happened, IMHO:

Our expectations were "irrationally exuberant." Our schedule is MUCH more difficult this year than last. Our opponents were for the most part better than last year. None of our opponents took us lightly this year; if anything, they considered this year as payback time for last year. We had graduated some really good seniors at key positons. We had lots of injuries, some devastating. Our team was mostly young, inexperienced, not yet battle-hardened, and softer than they will be in a year or two. Preceding last year, we lost almost what amounted to an entire recruiting year. CPJ said something to the effect that our OL last year was not as good as we thought it was, and without Mason...well, the proof was in the pudding this year. We lost some key defensive players to injury while others, such as JT, played hurt. Etc, etc., etc.

Those of us who were around for the 1980s are perhaps more battle-hardened fans. Curry high-tailed it for greener pastures and Ross almost tossed in the towel before the clouds finally rolled away and Tech won its first national championship since 1952. Then, like Curry, Ross moved on to greener pastures. Then came the L**** fiasco, followed by a brief adjustment that featured 3 straight wins over Ugag thanks to a coach with a questionable resume and who also moved on to greener pastures. Then came a coach who inherited a bad recruiting situation because of prior scholastic dilemmas. Finally, just as that coach had his best recruits just about inked, he was canned and we still had to pay his salary plus the salary of our new coach.

So yeah, we've weathered some pretty tough storms...or character builders as I like to think of them. Last year provided great encouragement with 11 wins, excellent team character, and many good recruits. We can easily weather this year's setback. And we will.
Perspective!!
 
Messages
13,443
Location
Augusta, GA
First I have not mentioned Kim King. Although he is a Tech great. You definitely have a hard time keeping your point straight. We are talking about Paul getting his players in and when he will be held accountable for his players. So let me understand, 8 years is not enough time, but Josh Nesbit, Roddy Jones, Dwyer, BeBe, and all the players brought in by Gailey is good for you? Seriously, you are a have your cake and eat it kind of guy? The wheels of the bus go round and round.
Like I said, I wasn't sure who brought up Kim King, and I didn't take time to go back and check. I read whatever was posted as a slam on King, and I disagreed totally with that. Johnson won 11 games last year with his own players, so I believe he CAN do it with his own players, and I think he can even do better than last year. For all kinds of reasons, some valid reasons, and some just excuses, this year sucks, and Johnson has to bear the responsibility for it; I would never say otherwise. But I HOPE this year is some kind of aberration. If it repeats next year, then he's gone....or should be. Some changes obviously need to be made; whether he makes them or not is on his head. Sewak and Roof, like them or not, are apparently good recruiters. I don't like Sewak, and thought he should have been let go after 2013, only to see vast improvement in the OL last year. I was not happy when we hired Roof, but I thought he had shown signs of turning things around. I'm not so sure about that now, although there are plenty who disagree with me and do see signs of improvement. As far as keeping my point straight, my only real point is that this year alone should not be the milepost of Johnson's career at Tech. After all, it is his only really bad year. Were there mediocre years between 2009 and 2014? Yes, there were, but I think recruiting limitations and attrition were as much to blame for them as anything else. With the good recruiting in 2014 and, supposedly again this year, "his players" SHOULD be a lot better than he has had before. After all, with 23 freshmen and redshirt freshmen playing this year, many of them very good, the results should be better too. If they are not, then everything said about him will be valid, but IMHO until they prove not to be, then we go with what we've got. I like Johnson, and I think he can and will win, but if he doesn't again next year, then it will be time to move on, cost or no cost.
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Johnson lows were worse than Gaileys before but this low is Bill Lewis low.

His highs are higher than O'Learys. 2 years too far in between.

Is this year an aberration IDK, but regardless it can't happen again.
 

Declinometer

Banned
Messages
1,178
What I saw was a pissed of QB who was upset he couldn't compete. It's pretty obvious he's not a rah rah type kid. Neither was Nesbit. The kid has had his *** handed to him all year. I played college basketball and anytime I was injured all I did was get pissed off I couldn't be on the floor and used that as motivation for the next time I get back out there. That look wasnt a look of disinterest it was a look of someone who is going to come out the next game mad as hell with something to prove. If we want to question players why not the kids who were laughing on the sideline while we were down 21-7.
#2 in Iowa <wink>
Surging!
 

CTJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
532
It's not a question of him having had enough time. He didn't have the opportunity to get all his players in the system. NO COACH ANYWHERE can get "his players" if he has recruiting limitations put on him. If he had been able to bring in full recruiting classes every year, then you would have an argument; but he wasn't able to, and you don't.
Plus the lack of recruiting staff (you may have meant this) until MBob got here.

Edit - I see you mentioned it later!
 
Last edited:

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
397
From StatFox:

[RB] 09/17/2015 - Quaide Weimerskirch out indefinitely ( Foot )
[Backup QB] 09/08/2015 - Tim Byerly out for season ( Knee )
(!)[QB] 11/22/2015 - Justin Thomas injured last game, "?" Saturday vs. Georgia ( Head )
[RB] 11/22/2015 - Mikell Lands-Davis "?" Saturday vs. Georgia ( Undisclosed )
[DL] 11/19/2015 - Jabari Hunt-Days has left team ( Personal )
[RB] 09/24/2015 - C.J. Leggett out for season ( Knee )
[OL] 09/24/2015 - Chris Griffin out for season ( Knee )
[RB] 09/24/2015 - Nate Cottrell out for season ( Knee )
[RB] 09/24/2015 - Qua Searcy out for season ( Ankle )
[LB] 09/29/2015 - Beau Hankins out for season ( Concussion )
[DL] 11/05/2015 - Adam Gotsis out for season ( Knee )
[WR] 11/10/2015 - Micheal Summers has left team ( Personal )

That's missing AJ Gray, PJ Davis, Taquon Marshall, and probably quite a few other names. With the exception of Griffin the O-line has been unravaged, and that's been the biggest surprise of the year was the ineffectiveness in the trenches. Defense has not developed a presence on the line other than Gotsis, which is a problem that will persist into next year.

I have no concern that the A-back, B-back, and WR issues will fix themselves. A-back will deep next year with a lot of experience. The questions to me are how do you fix the O-line, the defense, and special teams?
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
From StatFox:

[RB] 09/17/2015 - Quaide Weimerskirch out indefinitely ( Foot )
[Backup QB] 09/08/2015 - Tim Byerly out for season ( Knee )
(!)[QB] 11/22/2015 - Justin Thomas injured last game, "?" Saturday vs. Georgia ( Head )
[RB] 11/22/2015 - Mikell Lands-Davis "?" Saturday vs. Georgia ( Undisclosed )
[DL] 11/19/2015 - Jabari Hunt-Days has left team ( Personal )
[RB] 09/24/2015 - C.J. Leggett out for season ( Knee )
[OL] 09/24/2015 - Chris Griffin out for season ( Knee )
[RB] 09/24/2015 - Nate Cottrell out for season ( Knee )
[RB] 09/24/2015 - Qua Searcy out for season ( Ankle )
[LB] 09/29/2015 - Beau Hankins out for season ( Concussion )
[DL] 11/05/2015 - Adam Gotsis out for season ( Knee )
[WR] 11/10/2015 - Micheal Summers has left team ( Personal )

That's missing AJ Gray, PJ Davis, Taquon Marshall, and probably quite a few other names. With the exception of Griffin the O-line has been unravaged, and that's been the biggest surprise of the year was the ineffectiveness in the trenches. Defense has not developed a presence on the line other than Gotsis, which is a problem that will persist into next year.

I have no concern that the A-back, B-back, and WR issues will fix themselves. A-back will deep next year with a lot of experience. The questions to me are how do you fix the O-line, the defense, and special teams?

Plus you add in the players that quit to the list of injuries and wow it is hard to win

LB A. Harrell
LB B. Hankins
WR Mike Summers
DT J. Hunt

I
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
Johnson lows were worse than Gaileys before but this low is Bill Lewis low.

His highs are higher than O'Learys. 2 years too far in between.

Is this year an aberration IDK, but regardless it can't happen again.

I would agree 100 percent... It can't happen again!!
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,101
Location
Augusta, Georgia
I have no concern that the A-back, B-back, and WR issues will fix themselves. A-back will deep next year with a lot of experience. The questions to me are how do you fix the O-line, the defense, and special teams?

I think having the young guys playing on OL this year answers that question. We'll see more of Klock, Bryan and Marshall as they mature in the offense. All of these guys have the potential to be studs on the OL.

The ST hasn't been bad. We just remember the miscues. We are 53rd in ST efficiency. Overall, ST play has been good but not great. We need to address the punting unit, but half of that was the fault of the long snapper. Our other units have been fine.

We lose a lot off our D. Hopefully the new guys getting experience grow up fast this year. D might take a real step back next year.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
...
I have no concern that the A-back, B-back, and WR issues will fix themselves. A-back will deep next year with a lot of experience. The questions to me are how do you fix the O-line, the defense, and special teams?
That's what a lot of us were saying before this season started. Not a problem. If the WRs cannot create space, if the Abacks still lack speed, if the Abacks still can't block on the edge, if the Bbacks can't block and slide to a gap ... we should be very concerned. A season of experience with a 3-8 or 3-9 team may not be worth very much.
 
Top