Would You Rather: ACCT vs NCAAT

[jatchet]

NM

 

[jatchet]

NM

 

[D-man44]

Nice try, but not the same. Your way of looking at it is silly.

They would definitely say they were the NCAA Champions and hang a banner claiming it. I doubt the banner would read "#1".

More to the point... you can be certain Loyola-Chicago has a Final Four 2018 banner hanging in their gym, but no one would argue in good faith that they were a "top 5 team" that year. To better fit your example, I don't think K-State fans should be able to claim they were "top 10" in 2018.

What? National championship banners never say “#1” anyway but implies you finished #1 same as an elite 8 banner signifies you finished top 8. Recruits aren’t going to go back and look where you were ranked to end the season.

 

[jatchet]

What? National championship banners never say “#1” anyway but implies you finished #1 same as an elite 8 banner signifies you finished top 8

Top 8 in a tournament format for which every (reasonable) person recognizes is laid out to crown a champion but not individually rank the top 64, then top 32, then top 16, teams.

By your logic, UVA finished outside the top 25 in 2018 and never should have had a ranking all year?

 

[D-man44]

Top 8 in a tournament format for which every (reasonable) person recognizes is laid out to crown a champion but not individually rank the top 64, then top 32, then top 16, teams.

By your logic, UVA finished outside the top 25 in 2018 and never should have had a ranking all year?

I’m just talking about what is more valuable for the program. An elite 8 is a talking point losing in the first round isn’t even if you are top 10 in the regular season

 

[jatchet]

Proving my point... sweet 16 teams can claim the same talking point.

 

[D-man44]

Proving my point... sweet 16 teams can claim the same talking point.

And 8 is half of that making it a better talking point for recruits!

 

[jatchet]

And 8 is half of that making it a better talking point for recruits!

And you're saying that line that is crossed from 16 to 8 is suddenly what makes it more valuable to a program than an ACC Championship? That's your line in the sand?

 

[D-man44]

And you're saying that line that is crossed from 16 to 8 is suddenly what makes it more valuable to a program than an ACC Championship? That's your line in the sand?

Depends. If they make an elite 8 after beating say Ohio State and Arkansas and lose to Gonzaga in a close game sure that’s probably more valuable because that’s 3 huge games on national TV recruits see us. Acc Championship I guess you can say will be remembered longer though.

 

[GTbball2016]

Depends. If they make an elite 8 after beating say Ohio State and Arkansas and lose to Gonzaga in a close game sure that’s probably more valuable because that’s 3 huge games on national TV recruits see us. Acc Championship I guess you can say will be remembered longer though.

I don’t think recruits care too much about conference tournaments. This reminds me a bit of would you rather win NIT or lose first round of NCAAT. The answer is always NCAAT.

 

[lv20gt]

The thing with the NCAAT format is that there is a big difference in time gaps between games.

Winning 1 game gets you talked about, along with 31 others, for an extra day while the focus is on the games being played that day.
Winning 2 games gets you talked about for the next ~4 days with nothing going on.
Winning 3 games gets you talked about for an extra day on top of that, again, with games going on.
Winning 4 games gets you talked about along with just 3 other teams for ~4 days.

IMO that's why sweet 16 and final 4 are more the breakpoints while elite 8 isn't.

To me, winning the ACC is a bigger selling point than making the sweet 16. To me, a sweet 16 is great as part of an overall sell. Like if you can say we have go to the sweet 16 or better the majority of my years coaching, then it's a bigger deal. But a lone sweet 16 appearance vs a lone ACC T championship favors the ACC championship. IMO walking in and saying, "do you want to be a champion" and being able to back it up with a championship, even if it's a conference instead of a national one, goes a longer way and is a more effective pitch. However, I think making the final four tops it because it's almost guaranteed some ACC team make the sweet 16, but often none make the final four. Also, final four invokes the feeling of competing for championships that is lacking to sweet 16 to me. Just my take.

 

[GaTech4ever]

Not sure I’ve seen this mentioned yet, but we make the ACCT every season. Therefore, we’re guaranteed to have an opportunity to win it every season. And there’s only 13 other opponents, a few of which are clearly worse programs than GT right now.

Now, for a program like GT that doesn’t make the NCAAT consistently, wouldn’t a Sweet 16/Elite 8 run seem a little more desirable/challenging to attain? Considering we’d actually have to make the NCAAT to begin with in order to make a run, this means we 1.) either won the ACCT, or 2.) Had a great year in the ACC already.

 

[lv20gt]

Not sure I’ve seen this mentioned yet, but we make the ACCT every season. Therefore, we’re guaranteed to have an opportunity to win it every season. And there’s only 13 other opponents, a few of which are clearly worse programs than GT right now.

Now, for a program like GT that doesn’t make the NCAAT consistently, wouldn’t a Sweet 16/Elite 8 run seem a little more desirable/challenging to attain? Considering we’d actually have to make the NCAAT to begin with in order to make a run, this means we 1.) either won the ACCT, or 2.) Had a great year in the ACC already.

To me if you say "we were a sweet 16 team last year" vs "we were ACC Champs last year" the second is far more impactful no matter the state of the program. If you have to start getting into things like that for it to feel more important it isn't more important, because it's portraying your program in a worse light. That goes to another side where saying sweet 16 implies you made it and lost while ACC Champion means you achieved everything you could. Also, while you point out the clearly worse programs, those also exist in the NCAAT, and to win a n ACC T you almost always have to go through one of the top teams, where as making the sweet 16 can often be winning against 1 really overmatched opponent and then a solid, but not great team, if you're a higher seed.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Some of you guys seem to put a lot of importance on the ACC. Hate to say it but outside of ACC fans, winning our tournament isn’t so precious. Same as we really don’t give a flip who wins the Big 10 champ or Pac whatever or SEC, etc. Recruits wnat to be on the stage where they’re seen to make a name for themselves. Damn near everybody watches the NCAAT, even non-fans.

 

[lv20gt]

Some of you guys seem to put a lot of importance on the ACC. Hate to say it but outside of ACC fans, winning our tournament isn’t so precious. Same as we really don’t give a flip who wins the Big 10 champ or Pac whatever or SEC, etc. Recruits wnat to be on the stage where they’re seen to make a name for themselves. Damn near everybody watches the NCAAT, even non-fans.

How many people made a name for themselves by making a run to the sweet 16?

 

[GTbball2016]

How many people made a name for themselves by making a run to the sweet 16?

Florida Gulf Coast stands out to me more for their S16 run than the ACC Champ that year.

 

[Southpawmac]

How many people made a name for themselves by making a run to the sweet 16?

I mean Ja Morant made himself a household name and they didn’t even make it to the sweet sixteen. Plenty of people had never even heard of Ja before the tournament.

 

[LibertyTurns]

How many people made a name for themselves by making a run to the sweet 16?

The top players want to play in the tourney. It’s make no sense that players would not prefer playing in a national tourney over the ACC. How many interviews have you seen where the goal is making a run in the ACCT? Well, maybe GT because we’ve sucked for so long. Winning the ACCT is a minor goal, making the tourney is the big one.

 

[lv20gt]

I mean Ja Morant made himself a household name and they didn’t even make it to the sweet sixteen. Plenty of people had never even heard of Ja before the tournament.

Cade Cunningham has also made himself a household name and also hasn't made it to the sweet sixteen. Morant was already a top 5 draft lock months before the NCAAT and routinely featured on ESPN for what he was doing in the regular season. Sure plenty of people never heard of him before the tournament and plenty of people also never heard of him before the NBA draft including those who watched the NCAA casually because they heard his name but stopped hearing it after they lost in the second round. But even if you want to argue that making the sweet 16 is a bigger deal than winning the Ohio Valley conference tournament, I wouldn't disagree. Because for midmajors from one bid, or borderline one bid conferences the NCAAT is pretty much the only chance for exposure, so its a bigger deal when trying to recruit there.

The top players want to play in the tourney. It’s make no sense that players would not prefer playing in a national tourney over the ACC. How many interviews have you seen where the goal is making a run in the ACCT? Well, maybe GT because we’ve sucked for so long. Winning the ACCT is a minor goal, making the tourney is the big one.

The irony of you saying that and not realizing that you only reason us making the NCAAT is a big deal is because we haven't in so long is entertaining. Making the NCAAT isn't some super impressive accomplishment to recruits. It's more of a disqualifier to not make the NCAAT than than a selling point to make it. The fact we haven't in a decade is big deal because it's not meeting a basic expectation. But this is talking past the topic. If we're talking about making the sweet 16 or winning the ACC Tournament both already imply making the NCAAT

But it is funny that you phrase it as making a run in the ACCT when the discussion is about winning the ACCT, not just making a run. Probably because phrasing it as 'how many interviews have you seen where the goal is to win championships' doesn't lead to the answer you want and harder to point to making the NCAAT as a big deal in contrast when winning the ACCT guarantees it.

 

[iopjacket]

We haven't won the ACCT since 1993. Winning it is a big F...ing Deal. Now let's kick some a** in the NCAAT.