Work Horses: The Truth Beneath The Glory

[dressedcheeseside]

It's kind of troubling that the Executive Director of the National College Players Association says: "The idea that they are going to get a free education is ridiculous. Half of them won't graduate"

So let me get this straight...half of them won't graduate, and only a very small percentage will make the NFL. So the solution is to pay them for the four years they are in school?

THAT is ridiculous. Why not address the problem of them not graduating?

Cannot agree more. The tail is wagging the dog and everybody knows it. The head "player" just admitted that most college football players are there for football and that academics is an after thought at best and an annoyance that must be tolerated for most. It's really sad and it must be corrected. Paying the players is not the solution unless an independent farm system is created. Baseball has the right model and it's about time football got on board. If not, pipe down.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Is that not graduate, as in ever or not in four years, as is now more typical than not, or not from their first school?

I think this is a good question.

APR seems to assume a set time frame. I get all warm and fuzzy about Tech athletes that come back and finish their degrees after time away pursuing professional sports careers but that does not seem to be included in the equation in any kind of meaningful way. Ultimately, I think what we want is for young people to be able to pursue their dreams in good faith and go as far as they can in a chosen endeavor. A kid who drops out but later starts over at community college and eventually ends up with a degree and a job he loves is a success story, no matter how the NCAA interprets it. Likewise, a student who realizes academics are not for him but builds a sound future through sports connections is also a success story. On the other hand a student who is just gaming the system, and keeps expecting handouts along the way, is not something that I think anyone on here would endorse. And I think we would all take an equally dim view of athletic departments who take advantage of these kids, as well as loopholes in the system, to feather their own nest.

As you say, it's complicated.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I think this is a good question.

APR seems to assume a set time frame. I get all warm and fuzzy about Tech athletes that come back and finish their degrees after time away pursuing professional sports careers but that does not seem to be included in the equation in any kind of meaningful way. Ultimately, I think what we want is for young people to be able to pursue their dreams in good faith and go as far as they can in a chosen endeavor. A kid who drops out but later starts over at community college and eventually ends up with a degree and a job he loves is a success story, no matter how the NCAA interprets it. Likewise, a student who realizes academics are not for him but builds a sound future through sports connections is also a success story. On the other hand a student who is just gaming the system, and keeps expecting handouts along the way, is not something that I think anyone on here would endorse. And I think we would all take an equally dim view of athletic departments who take advantage of these kids, as well as loopholes in the system, to feather their own nest.

As you say, it's complicated.

I think you miss the larger subset of SA's, the ones that have no business in college in the first place and are granted admittance solely for their potential on the gridiron. These kids are quickly forgotten by the Universities and their adoring fanbases once their eligibility expires or cannot play due to injury.

Maybe they are victims but maybe they are not. Where would most of them be if they hadn't been scooped up by college football? Are they any worse off when they're dumped out? How many of them actually decide to take advantage of the academic opportunity even though it's not the primary reason for going to college? If not, did they gain any life experience, world view or personal growth that helps them moving forward even if they have no degree or one that's not worth the paper it's printed on?

 

[awbuzz]

This will ultimately destroy the college football game as we know it. I think those that want to get paid should form their own semi professional league and arrange a pay for play league/business for all those young men who feel they are being mistreated under the current arrangement. You would discover that less than 20% of those currently participating would opt for this arrangement vs. the current college system. I think this would satisfy those that feel like they need to be compensated for playing but still allow those who enjoy the current arrangement to get an education and play the sport they love.

That sort of system would take the steam out of the factory programs like Ohio State, Alabama and Georgia. It would greatly benefit schools like Tech, Syracuse, Vanderbilt and the Service academies. I think ESPN and others like the NFL should take the initiative to form a pay for play minor league professional system, so we can get on with it and not have to listen to all this belly aching, bitching and whining.

Go Jackets!

Ummm aaaah ... What he said! [emoji106] [emoji106]

 

[AE 87]

We should offer a Bachelor of Arts and Technology. The "Arts" would focus on achieving competency in literacy and humanities, and the Technology would teach a trade, like Electrician, Auto Mechanics, HVAC repair, plumbing etc. Some of those courses should also be required for the relevant engineering programs. I couldn't believe how many guys only knew the math and didn't know how to build stuff.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think you miss the larger subset of SA's, the ones that have no business in college in the first place and are granted admittance solely for their potential on the gridiron. These kids are quickly forgotten by the Universities and their adoring fanbases once their eligibility expires or cannot play due to injury.

Maybe they are victims but maybe they are not. Where would most of them be if they hadn't been scooped up by college football? Are they any worse off when they're dumped out? How many of them actually decide to take advantage of the academic opportunity even though it's not the primary reason for going to college? If not, did they gain any life experience, world view or personal growth that helps them moving forward even if they have no degree or one that's not worth the paper it's printed on?

As was said, it's complicated.

I was just trying to pinpoint that narrow subset that I think we would all agree is undermining the integrity of college athletics. And that subset includes certain athletes and certain athletic departments.

 

[orange14]

along with the mythological 20 million type numbers.....

 

[vamosjackets]

I couldn't believe how many guys only knew the math and didn't know how to build stuff.

I resemble that remark.

 

[YJAlleyCat]

We should offer a Bachelor of Arts and Technology. The "Arts" would focus on achieving competency in literacy and humanities, and the Technology would teach a trade, like Electrician, Auto Mechanics, HVAC repair, plumbing etc. Some of those courses should also be required for the relevant engineering programs. I couldn't believe how many guys only knew the math and didn't know how to build stuff.

My favorite people at work (especially when I was working as an engineer) were invariably in this category: "Old guys who know how to make stuff"

I would never submit a design without talking to someone who could tell me whether or not we could actually manufacture such a part, and at a reasonable cost.

 

[bke1984]

Is that not graduate, as in ever or not in four years, as is now more typical than not, or not from their first school? I don't follow all those numbers but I do know that the odds weigh against a student graduating from the first school he or she attended, and an enormous number of them take five years or more ... despite all kinds of opportunities for early college courses that would shorten the term. (I'm not even talking about the fraud of online "learning" which universities accept and now are complicit in as money makers. Bet a lot of gifted students "graduated" others from college five or six times in the space of time it took for their degree.

The NCAA in terms of athletics is complicit as well, as are the college officials and trustees who accept and encourage the "one and done" concept just to compete nationally. But it is not even that. It is one semester and done, as the athletes hit classes just enough to stay eligible the second semester and then quit class altogether. I read of one ACC basketball player who was in school three years and did not know where the library was.

I can't find the article any more or I would have linked to it, but honestly, I'm not sure.

Do the one and dones count towards the rates? I feel like I recall that they are exempt from the APR, but I would think that you'd almost have to include them in the graduation rates.

I get that a lot of general population students end up transferring before graduating for a wide variety of reasons, but the rates just seem way too low to me. I just feel like the universities should be making it priority #1 to get these kids their education, but don't get the feeling that is the case across the board. If they did, I would think the athletes could easily outperform the general student body everywhere.

 

[Skeptic]

My favorite people at work (especially when I was working as an engineer) were invariably in this category: "Old guys who know how to make stuff"

I would never submit a design without talking to someone who could tell me whether or not we could actually manufacture such a part, and at a reasonable cost.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from an old hand who could make things work and concerned the art of hiring: "You need to learn the difference in 10 years of experience and one year of experience 10 times." I was never very much good at my job until I learned it.

 

[Skeptic]

I can't find the article any more or I would have linked to it, but honestly, I'm not sure.

Do the one and dones count towards the rates? I feel like I recall that they are exempt from the APR, but I would think that you'd almost have to include them in the graduation rates.

I get that a lot of general population students end up transferring before graduating for a wide variety of reasons, but the rates just seem way too low to me. I just feel like the universities should be making it priority #1 to get these kids their education, but don't get the feeling that is the case across the board. If they did, I would think the athletes could easily outperform the general student body everywhere.

We often forget that college students can be willy-nilly -- not that I was, mind you -- and can drop/add, drop out, transfer, sit out ... and finally get a degree at an age and maturity that actually works for them. I have heard the argument advanced and think I agree with it that athletic scholarship students should have a better graduation rate and stay-in-school rate because they are hand-picked and while football for instance may be time consuming, they also have tutors that the average student can't afford.

As an aside I know Calipari at Kentucky gets a lot of "credit" for how he manipulates the system with his one semester and outtahere factory -- it ain't a program -- but I think he's a low ladder criminal gaming the university, the NCAA and college basketball generally. With the new stipend rule Kentucky under Calipari is by definition a team of paid mercenaries. I'd feel badly for the players but somehow I really don't care what happens to them.