Why Dodd why?

[MikeJackets1967]

This factor cannot be overemphasized. The Falcons and Braves had a more deleterious effect on Tech football than everything else mentioned in this thread combined.

Do you think GT would have stayed strong like they were from the Mid 1940s-mid 1960s if the Falcons and Braves had never come to Atlanta?

 

[stech81]

De mortuis nil nisi bon

In addition, Atlanta was becoming a pro sports town. During Dodd's glory years, Tech football was THE thing in Atlanta, but that began to change when the Falcons came to town. People talked about season ticket holders needing to die in order for others to have a shot at getting seats in the West Stands.

Must have had a bunch die in the 80's

 

[bobongo]

Do you think GT would have stayed strong like they were from the Mid 1940s-mid 1960s if the Falcons and Braves had never come to Atlanta?

Hard to say, but we'd have been a lot better off. Other factors have weighed on us (especially academics and curriculum), but Atlanta becoming a pro city hurt more than the others. Not complaining - it is what it is. We have to deal with it.

What we should do, IMO, is to amp up our recruiting budget and concentrate on recruiting on a national scale. This is the one thing that has any potential to lead us back to the Promised Land. These buildings and stadium renovations are nice and somewhat important (they have a tangential effect on recruiting), but money for recruiting should be first and foremost, as it will have the most direct impact on our success in every way. Talent is what it's all about.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

Hard to say, but we'd have been a lot better off. Other factors have weighed on us (especially academics and curriculum), but Atlanta becoming a pro city hurt more than the others. Not complaining - it is what it is. We have to deal with it.

What we should do, IMO, is to amp up our recruiting budget and concentrate on recruiting on a national scale. This is the one thing that has any potential to lead us back to the Promised Land. These buildings and stadium renovations are nice and somewhat important (they have a tangential effect on recruiting), but money for recruiting should be first and foremost, as it will have the most direct impact on our success in every way. Talent is what it's all about.

Yeah i wonder how it would be if Atlanta had wound up a city like Birmingham,Columbia or Raleigh I'm thinking if the pro teams hadn't come to Atlanta in 1966 that Atlanta would have gotten the expansion NFL team in 1976 instead of Tampa.

 

[OlaJacket]

This is it in a nutshell. Why would Coach Broyles leave Arkansas the STATE university with practically unlimited recruiting tools, money, the dew eyed affection of an adoring fan base and absolutely no academic restrictions to speak of for Georgia Tech with a divided fan base (at the time), academic restrictions that were threatened, then as now, to strangle our football program, and face a looming juggernaut being created in Athens? The only possible advantage for Coach Broyles would have been unqualified support from the AD, and access to more fertile recruiting grounds in Georgia and Florida compared to Arkansas. But even that is largely negated by the Razorbacks being able to recruit in Texas. It was a no contest in the context of the times especially when our facilities were probably the absolute worst in what was then division one football. Frankly, during the 1970s and early 1980s it was nearly miraculous to be as competitive as we were. Even their schedule was arguably easier than ours except we did not have to play Texas in the old Southwest Conference. Most teams in the old Southwest Conference did little more than serve as punching bags for either Arkansas or Texas.

I based my original post on an art

Look, you cannot on the one hand run a huge thread on what it means to be a Tech man, and on another grouch that Dodd put his long time player and coach and his family first, and I dare somebody to say he gave him bad advice. I believe he gave Curry similar advice about Alabama, but I just heard that story. It is hard to criticize a man for not putting one of his "boys" in the same bad spot he wound up in. Seems about half our complaints about competing involve administration and determination to win, so I think I will just continue to remember -- from books and anecdotes -- that Dodd is one of a handful of sports figures I count as personal heroes. Shoot, not even a handful. Dodd, Jackie Robinson and Sandy Koufax. That's it. If I added a fourth it would be Ali, but in the end, it is just sports.

Well sir I guess that is exactly what I'm doing. My original post was based on an article I read in Georgia Trend Magazine entitled "Going to the Hogs" where it stated Broyles told the magazine that Tech alums were offering pretty much everthing but the school itself after Carson left. Broyles was considering it until Bobby Dodd convinced him we weren't good enough for him. And Dodd was our freaking AD! I have never deified Coach Dodd and I always thought he never wanted to be upstaged in the years following his retirement from coaching. I totally understand there were other factors in our post Dodd demise but I never got the impression that Dodd cared much about our win loss record after he hung up his whistle.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

I based my original post on an art

Well sir I guess that is exactly what I'm doing. My original post was based on an article I read in Georgia Trend Magazine entitled "Going to the Hogs" where it stated Broyles told the magazine that Tech alums were offering pretty much everthing but the school itself after Carson left. Broyles was considering it until Bobby Dodd convinced him we weren't good enough for him. And Dodd was our freaking AD! I have never deified Coach Dodd and I always thought he never wanted to be upstaged in the years following his retirement from coaching. I totally understand there were other factors in our post Dodd demise but I never got the impression that Dodd cared much about our win loss record after he hung up his whistle.

If Bobby Dodd said that he should have been fired as AD in my opinion

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Do you think GT would have stayed strong like they were from the Mid 1940s-mid 1960s if the Falcons and Braves had never come to Atlanta?

If Bobby Dodd said that he should have been fired as AD in my opinion

Another good question but one that cannot be answered objectively especially by someone like me with a lot of baggage from the 1970s and 1980s. In my opinion, the recruiting restrictions combined with an unwillingness to make the sacrifices necessary to upgrade facilities and pay for better coaches would have resulted in a downward spiral in any event. The Falcons and Braves have hurt Tech's athletics a great deal but I am not sure that it would have mattered given the mismanagement and poor decisions by the AD and the Tech administration.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Hard to say, but we'd have been a lot better off. Other factors have weighed on us (especially academics and curriculum), but Atlanta becoming a pro city hurt more than the others. Not complaining - it is what it is. We have to deal with it.

What we should do, IMO, is to amp up our recruiting budget and concentrate on recruiting on a national scale. This is the one thing that has any potential to lead us back to the Promised Land. These buildings and stadium renovations are nice and somewhat important (they have a tangential effect on recruiting), but money for recruiting should be first and foremost, as it will have the most direct impact on our success in every way. Talent is what it's all about.

This 1000%

 

[iceeater1969]

Yes, Gt (which is in a large city) needs to target our recruiting nationally in the suburbs of the large cities that have very good schools and play top flight football.

Target cities in a logical order.

If we look there, IMO we will find players that will self recruit to gt.

 

[Skeptic]

If Bobby Dodd said that he should have been fired as AD in my opinion

Goodness. The further removed we get from the legend the less we trust the legend. Such an objective opinion would have been entirely within his history and character. I gather from what I have read, for instance, that he told both Graves and Broyles that he intended to soldier on awhile as head ball coach but both were ready for their own teams. Lost 'em. They seem to have done right well. I can't fault any guy for putting people ahead of institutions, even the venerated GT. Even his own GT. But daggone. He were are debating this, what, 60 years later? Tech's football problems do not root in having lost a real good coach one time. The problem is money, apparent lack of administrative support though I wouldn't know and my Tech friend doesn't follow football, and recruiting. In 2018.

 

[Essobee]

But daggone. He were are debating this, what, 60 years later? Tech's football problems do not root in having lost a real good coach one time. The problem is money, apparent lack of administrative support though I wouldn't know and my Tech friend doesn't follow football, and recruiting. In 2018.

This^ IOW, it ain't the arrow; it's the Indian. Always has been. Always will be.

 

[bobongo]

I gather from what I have read, for instance, that he told both Graves and Broyles that he intended to soldier on awhile as head ball coach but both were ready for their own teams. Lost 'em. They seem to have done right well. I can't fault any guy for putting people ahead of institutions, even the venerated GT.

Exactly. What Bobby Dodd did was tell the truth, which is precisely why his players and coaches trusted him. He didn't just tell the truth depending on what or whom it benefitted. He just told the truth, period. As you say, he should never be faulted for that.

 

[Gtbowhunter90]

I remember reading "Dodd's Luck" many years ago and coming away with the impression that although Coach loved GT, he felt like he had been too loyal and it had hurt his coaching career.
He had an offer to go to Texas at one point before Darrell Royal and he turned it down. He seemed to regret that deeply and it colored his advice to other coaches (especially former players) about whether they should come to/stay at Tech.

I just bought this book, looking forward to enjoying it

 

[MikeJackets1967]

Exactly. What Bobby Dodd did was tell the truth, which is precisely why his players and coaches trusted him. He didn't just tell the truth depending on what or whom it benefitted. He just told the truth, period. As you say, he should never be faulted for that.

Still telling an interested head coaching candidate that he's too good for your school and talking him out of taking the head coaching job is stabbing your Athletic Program in the back and should be grounds for an Athletic Director's firing.

 

[bobongo]

Still telling an interested head coaching candidate that he's too good for your school and talking him out of taking the head coaching job is stabbing your Athletic Program in the back and should be grounds for an Athletic Director's firing.

That isn't at all what he told him, and he had his own very good candidate in mind. Would have hired him, too, had he had his way.

 

[Skeptic]

Yes, Gt (which is in a large city) needs to target our recruiting nationally in the suburbs of the large cities that have very good schools and play top flight football.

Target cities in a logical order.

If we look there, IMO we will find players that will self recruit to gt.

Anybody wanting to recruit nationally, on a serious level -- not the outlier one or two because they grew up in California but one of the parents was a Tech grad -- then you will require a very serious brand recognition. Just being that really tough engineering school won't get it. I have followed Clemson the last 10 years or so, since Swinney was hired. He has had something like eight straight double digit win seasons and been in three NC playoffs, winning once. With all that, only in the last couple of years can it be said they can recruit nationally with a recognized brand. And most of the recruits initially could not tell you what Clemson offers academically: they know the orange paw, the football records. Now they reach out to California or Texas, Michigan, Minnesota, and throughout the SE. Took them, give or take, 9-10 years of on-field excellence and national TV exposure. Point being, if you want to recruit nationally, start working on it eight years ago. Doesn't come in pop-top cans.

 

[iceeater1969]

Anybody wanting to recruit nationally, on a serious level -- not the outlier one or two because they grew up in California but one of the parents was a Tech grad -- then you will require a very serious brand recognition. Just being that really tough engineering school won't get it. I have followed Clemson the last 10 years or so, since Swinney was hired. He has had something like eight straight double digit win seasons and been in three NC playoffs, winning once. With all that, only in the last couple of years can it be said they can recruit nationally with a recognized brand. And most of the recruits initially could not tell you what Clemson offers academically: they know the orange paw, the football records. Now they reach out to California or Texas, Michigan, Minnesota, and throughout the SE. Took them, give or take, 9-10 years of on-field excellence and national TV exposure. Point being, if you want to recruit nationally, start working on it eight years ago. Doesn't come in pop-top cans.

Agree it will take time and we will never be clem , fzu, ug, etc. They are after the super talent- we are after a talent increase .

what's wrong w the idea of "targeting" the burbs large cities like houston with large number of gt grads.

I know the gt degree is recognized nationally as superior. We must demonstrate to potential recruits ( family, coach) that " if u come and work u will graduate". in large cities there are lots of corporations that hire gt grads so they can come back home after gt and get a good job.

 

[Skeptic]

Agree it will take time and we will never be clem , fzu, ug, etc. They are after the super talent- we are after a talent increase .

what's wrong w the idea of "targeting" the burbs large cities like houston with large number of gt grads.

I know the gt degree is recognized nationally as superior. We must demonstrate to potential recruits ( family, coach) that " if u come and work u will graduate". in large cities there are lots of corporations that hire gt grads so they can come back home after gt and get a good job.

I wouldn't argue with the degree brand, and whether Tech can recruit in the suburbs is out of my pay grade. I have no clue. And no, and though I think Tech could do better recruiting -- a notion I quickly admit I can't defend, just a belief -- it won't be a factory, even a good factory. I do like the defining "talent increase" which is an achievable goal. I have peeked in at Clemson often enough over the years to note recruits seem to be universal, kind of machine stamped, to talk about education, no matter where the school, and atmosphere, and coaches, etc. But what really lights them up at Clemson, again and again, are the facilities. Personally I think a football-dedicated building with chefs and dieticians and whatnot is over the top. But it sells. I have some doubts that the "national degree brand" would translate going forward into football recruits. I have been wrong before, and in this case, hope I am again. In the mean time, I want us to compete every Saturday, play exciting football, run a clean program, graduate the players, and if the tradeoff then is to be 8-win seasons, then as a non-Tech grad, I'll take it. But the decision of course is left to those who got out, so to speak.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I just bought this book, looking forward to enjoying it

Yes, his wife specifically mentions that Coach Dodd was depressed about recruiting and the increasing difficulty of trying to sell Georgia Tech during the late 1950s and early 60s. That said, no matter what his faults may have been as an AD (and they were considerable) he could flat out coach and recruit. He had a way of talking in that soft, ever so soothing voice that just melted parents hearts that this man would take care of my boy. Even in those days playing Georgia Tech was no picnic in the park. Bear Bryant once said that the worst thing about coaching at Alabama was every year having to look across the field on one Saturday and see that "damn Dodd". Such are the ways of the immortals.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I wouldn't argue with the degree brand, and whether Tech can recruit in the suburbs is out of my pay grade. I have no clue. And no, and though I think Tech could do better recruiting -- a notion I quickly admit I can't defend, just a belief -- it won't be a factory, even a good factory. I do like the defining "talent increase" which is an achievable goal. I have peeked in at Clemson often enough over the years to note recruits seem to be universal, kind of machine stamped, to talk about education, no matter where the school, and atmosphere, and coaches, etc. But what really lights them up at Clemson, again and again, are the facilities. Personally I think a football-dedicated building with chefs and dieticians and whatnot is over the top. But it sells. I have some doubts that the "national degree brand" would translate going forward into football recruits. I have been wrong before, and in this case, hope I am again. In the mean time, I want us to compete every Saturday, play exciting football, run a clean program, graduate the players, and if the tradeoff then is to be 8-win seasons, then as a non-Tech grad, I'll take it. But the decision of course is left to those who got out, so to speak.

At any football factory not just Clemson, the whole school is "football dedicated" not just the athletic facilities. Clemson has been trying for decades to be thought of as an honest to goodness football factory spoken in the same breath as UGA, Alabama, FSU, Miami, Auburn, and the like. That they have not was not due to a lack of effort in building state of the art facilities and such but probably a combination of ordinary coaching through the years, a limited recruiting base to some degree in South Carolina, and just plain bad luck. 2011 is a good example. Here was Clemson poised at 8-0, ranked #5 in the country, and filled to the brim with stellar athleticism on both sides of the ball attempting at week 9 to do what had been done only once before in ACC history. That is, get to 9-0. All they had to do was beat a pretty average Georgia Tech team at Grant Field. Tevin Washington had, perhaps, his best game as a Yellow Jacket and Tech ruined yet another top 10 team's quest for glory. Those days of upsetting Clemson by Tech or any of the other peasants are probably gone for the present. Tip of the hat to Dabo he has done what Danny Ford, Tommy Bowden, Coach West, and others could not do and knock down the door to the exclusive football factory club.