collegeballfan
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,694
Johnson has always said his play calling is based on the defense and the ability of his players to execute the plays called.
Why didn't we see more of the Bgap dive and/or midline in other games?
- Thread starter dressedcheeseside
- Start date
Fatmike91
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,292
- Location
- SW Florida
Absolutely yes.
There is a reason we score on the opening drive of the second half (subtantially) every time. Same reason we dominate the second half...
/
TheGridironGeek
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 276
We also have to remember that JT is only a redshirt sophomore. I am sure there are still wrinkles to the offense that CPJ hasn't had time to teach him yet. Maybe leading up to the Orange Bowl game CPJ had a chance to put that set in?
As others have pointed out, MSU was also playing D in a way that lent itself to those plays. Their corners/linebackers were firing extremely hard right from the start. They caught us 3 or 4 times behind the line of scrimmage and blew up plays that way. I said to myself that CPJ would adjust and make them pay for that aggressiveness. In the first half, we did that with the pass. In the second half, we did that with the belly/midline sets. They never adjusted and the corners/safties were basically just taking themselves out of the play without having to even be blocked. Most ACC teams didn't plays us that aggressively on the outside that consistently. Guys like Bud Foster are smart enough to vary their schemes.
The poor MSU guy was just over matched!
I actually had less of a problem with MSU's defense than how a lot of teams defend the Flex. At least they were aggressive and tried to cause some negative plays (and did). The *worst* thing you can do is just sit back in a base defense and preach "assignments" over and over. Assignments are great, but the read-and-react strategy overlooks the fact that a team with a numerical advantage is blocking you.
The worst coaching job I've ever seen vs. the CPJ playbook was Missouri vs. Navy in 2009. They literally just sat there in a base 4-3 and thought that their assignments would take care of everything. Navy had literally 0 guys who would have made the team at Mizzou, and ran them right off the field.
On the other hand, look how San Diego State defended Navy this year. They lost, but it was the worst Navy's offense looked in a long time. SDS took chances and took away every keep read, hell or high water. They gambled and gave up some big plays, but also forced turnovers and runs for losses.
So you can pick on some of the individual calls by MSU (the guys running out toward the pitch at the snap was suicidal) but I would argue they had the right mindset. Tech's offense has developed to the point where they're probably going to score on a given drive anyway, so why not cause some chaos? At least if Tech scores on a big play you don't lose as much TOP, and by gambling you might actually put them in 2nd or 3rd and long, which I know isn't the taboo it's supposed to be but it's a darn sight better than the alternative.
dressedcheeseside
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 14,220
I guess my biggest question in the op that has not been answered is if the MSU performance is a harbinger of things to come or was it just a function of a very specific set of factors on that day? Is the MSU performance the tip of the iceberg or is it as good as we can hope to get?
- Messages
- 3,281
The worst I have ever seen a defense play GT, without adjustments etc, was Syracuse in the 56-0 thrashing. The second half by MSU rivaled that. I think the MSU DTs were really good players who were hard to defeat man on man. They stuffed the middle pretty good without a ton of help. Personally, I think the set of plays we used repeatedly in half two were just implemented to mitigate those two players effectiveness. The fact that they never adjusted was just a shame on them. They continued to shut down the A gap with the good DTs. We continued to double them to the inside while running to the B gap, or optioning them off completely with the midline. It is not rocket science. Why should CPJ change a thing if it is working and they don't ever counter? One of the things I love about CPJ's offense is that you can take superior players out of the equation in multitude of ways without having to fight them left handed. I love that CPJ doesn't care if he has balance or not on offense. He forced them to make a move to change the course of our offense and they never did. He stuck with it and the results were obviously good.
dressedcheeseside
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 14,220
Sounds like they were really missing their DC. Btw, what would you have done to counter those moves if you were their DC?
Techster
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 18,237
I think everyone is familiar with CPJ's playcalling MO by now.
He runs his core set of plays off the triple, rocket toss, etc.
Then he runs the "specific" plays for each opponent. Against MSU it was the counter and belly series. Against other teams, it was other plays installed specifically for something he saw on tape he thought he could take advantage of. We may run those plays against 2-3 opponents a year, or just against one opponent and not see it again for a while. When was the last time we ran the pass opposite the counter motion that Stephen Hill terrorized UNC with? CPJ is notorious for putting stuff on tape because he knows the DCs have to spend time preparing for every situation, while he'll perfect 5-7 plays, and make adjustments within those plays to screw with DCs. Essentially, he's running more than 5-7 plays after adjustments because our blocking scheme and reads are different depending on the defense. He's betting that his proficiency at his handful of plays will trump you wasting practice time on everything he's put on film.
He runs his core set of plays off the triple, rocket toss, etc.
Then he runs the "specific" plays for each opponent. Against MSU it was the counter and belly series. Against other teams, it was other plays installed specifically for something he saw on tape he thought he could take advantage of. We may run those plays against 2-3 opponents a year, or just against one opponent and not see it again for a while. When was the last time we ran the pass opposite the counter motion that Stephen Hill terrorized UNC with? CPJ is notorious for putting stuff on tape because he knows the DCs have to spend time preparing for every situation, while he'll perfect 5-7 plays, and make adjustments within those plays to screw with DCs. Essentially, he's running more than 5-7 plays after adjustments because our blocking scheme and reads are different depending on the defense. He's betting that his proficiency at his handful of plays will trump you wasting practice time on everything he's put on film.
- Messages
- 4,862
This is one of my favorite parts about CPJ teams.
TheGridironGeek
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 276
I agree that Coach Johnson made the right moves, my point is that MSU did give the Tech offense some problems, and at least they had a bold plan even if it wasn't the best one.
In my limited experience around coaches, none would sit there during a game and say "we'll lose if we don't change this, so let's don't change it, derp." They're not retarded. My opinion is that the Bulldogs felt like they were having success busting up Rocket Sweep and the occasional option toss for big losses, and when Tech ran up the middle they were getting less yards per play vs. pitches and QB keeps, so State decided to keep looping outside and gamble that A) GT would eventually go outside again at the wrong time (see 4th quarter of Georgia game), B) MSU's athletes on the DL would rise up and stop the fullback regardless of the #s/angles disadvantage, or C) there would be a fumble.
We'll never know what they were actually thinking and it was probably a flawed concept yes, but remember this is an all-time great offense they were trying to defend. From time to time, there are offenses so powerful that D-coordinators will concede 5-7 yards a pop to them under certain circumstances and just hope for a break.
LongforDodd
LatinxBreakfastTacos
- Messages
- 3,195
Surely he's talking to someone in the box who's giving him the D's alignments and tendencies. Anyone know who that is?
TheGridironGeek
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 276
The 'Jackets were already established as an historically great offense well before the Orange Bowl. Justin Thomas is the biggest factor in that so no, that's not going away anytime soon. The main question is whether the defense and kicking game will continue to improve. If those two units regress, be prepared to lose some conference games 61-60 over the next 2 seasons. If they don't, look out.
Techster
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 18,237
See: 2012
Big Philly
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 129
- Location
- Seattle, WA
I contend that protecting Justin from hits has been one of the major reasons we have not called a lot of Midline. Joshua Nesbitt could pinball off linebackers and CPJ will blast Tim Byerly up the middle, but JT on a Midline Blast troubles me. We've called Midline throughout the year under favorable circumstances where it appeared CPJ was confident that we could get a give read to the B-Back or out of Trips against a more standard pass defense where we could get to the sideline.
- Messages
- 2,856
CHE90
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 436
This is my impression as well. I think it is the reason CPJ doesn't use a card with scripted plays. I believe he calls the games based on what the other defense is showing. He takes what they give him and exploits their weakness.
It reminds me of a Sports Illustrated article several years ago about Greg Maddux. They asked him if before a game against the Padres, he would study lots of film of Tony Gwynn's at bats to know better how to approach pitching to him. Maddux said something to the effect that against any hitter, he didn't care about how that player approached at bats earlier that season, let alone 2 or 3 seasons ago. All he cared about was that batter's previous at bats that game or even how the hitter approached him a pitch or 2 ago. It was all about keeping the hitter off balance and what he was expecting based on the most recent pitch or at bat. Maddux would even set the hitter up by "allowing" him to do something against him early in a game with no runners on, so that later in the game in a clutch situation (when a hit might produce RBIs) Maddux could have him looking for the same thing and end up getting the out.
Sorry this is so long winded, but I honestly believe CPJ is similar to Maddux in that he takes the mental part of the game and play calling to a whole new level like that. I don't know much about football so I would appreciate someone with better knowledge of the game weighing in on this.
- Messages
- 2,856
Ask yourself this question... why did CPJ keep running the rocket toss? The only thing I can think is that CPJ wanted them to keep doing what they were doing so he could abuse them on other plays.
The triple option was so working on the first series... why not run it second series?
The triple option was so working on the first series... why not run it second series?
- Messages
- 2,856
@dressedcheeseside I posted the vine above on Tulane...
DrJacket
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,178
I think CPJ watches a lot of film each week and gathers enough tendencies that he has some ideas of what will work. I suspect he scripts out his first 3 or 4 plays of the game to see what the defense is doing. From there, he's going to run what the defense tells him to. If something starts to roll, he will pound it until the defense tells him otherwise. No playsheet required for an offense he has run for over 30 years.
- Messages
- 12,104
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Messages
- 3,281
Well, you can't just continue to let yourself be outnumbered by the formation. When we went out unbalanced, they needed to match our numbers on the heavy side and at least line up where it wouldn't be so easy to get pushed to the inside. Some stunts or shifts before the snap to mess with our blocking assignments could have helped. There is no easy formula but you have to address the numbers or it will never work.