What was the play with pulling guard and tackle?

[elwoodgt]

We ran it probably ten times Monday night. It looked like a counter, but there were two pulling OL, and I don't think there was ever an option to give. TaQuan would basically take the snap, pause while the backside guard and tackle pulled, then follow them playside. It wasn't super fast, but pretty much money for 5-8 yards.

I wondered why we didn't run it on the 2pt conversion...

 

[Jmonty71]

It looked like a counter trap veer. We used to run something similar is high school. Not to call our offense a "high school offense" as we hear. But, we ran something similar. Just not near that effective. You're right.. It was pretty much money.

 

[Jmonty71]

Pretty much a variance of this.

 

[steebu]

We ran it probably ten times Monday night. It looked like a counter, but there were two pulling OL, and I don't think there was ever an option to give. TaQuan would basically take the snap, pause while the backside guard and tackle pulled, then follow them playside. It wasn't super fast, but pretty much money for 5-8 yards.

I wondered why we didn't run it on the 2pt conversion...

I think I first saw it against NC State a few years ago. IIRC PJ said on the radio show that CLO suggested it during game prep for the pack.

 

[LongforDodd]

Earlier today I was looking for a replay of the 2 pt conversion. No.75 pulled from the left side and tried to take out the D end after the D end was chipped by our R tackle who was trying to take on the LB. Benson could have taken on the S as our our receiver had their Corner and Marshall waltzing in for the W. Neither 75 or our R tackle were successful and Benson looked hesitant. Their D end and LB met at Marshall and we all went home gnashing our teeth.

 

[RonJohn]

Earlier today I was looking for a replay of the 2 pt conversion. No.75 pulled from the left side and tried to take out the D end after the D end was chipped by our R tackle who was trying to take on the LB. Benson could have taken on the S as our our receiver had their Corner and Marshall waltzing in for the W. Neither 75 or our R tackle were successful and Benson looked hesitant. Their D end and LB met at Marshall and we all went home gnashing our teeth.

Benson wasn't in a blocking position, he was in the pitch position. Difficult to block the inside guys if you are supposed to be on the outside awaiting a possible pitch. If TQ had pitched the ball instead of cutting back -- at the moment he cut back -- Benson would have gotten in the end zone easily.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Earlier today I was looking for a replay of the 2 pt conversion. No.75 pulled from the left side and tried to take out the D end after the D end was chipped by our R tackle who was trying to take on the LB. Benson could have taken on the S as our our receiver had their Corner and Marshall waltzing in for the W. Neither 75 or our R tackle were successful and Benson looked hesitant. Their D end and LB met at Marshall and we all went home gnashing our teeth.

Benson was the pitch man

 

[awbuzz]

Benson wasn't in a blocking position, he was in the pitch position. Difficult to block the inside guys if you are supposed to be on the outside awaiting a possible pitch. If TQ had pitched the ball instead of cutting back -- at the moment he cut back -- Benson would have gotten in the end zone easily.

This ^^^^^^^^^

but “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.”

 

[LongforDodd]

Benson wasn't in a blocking position, he was in the pitch position. Difficult to block the inside guys if you are supposed to be on the outside awaiting a possible pitch. If TQ had pitched the ball instead of cutting back -- at the moment he cut back -- Benson would have gotten in the end zone easily.

Do you think the play was a pitch to Benson or an option between QB run and/or pitch to Benson? If Benson had blocked the S would that have been illegal by moving towards the interior to block someone?

 

[LongforDodd]

Benson was the pitch man

Did anyone have responsibility for the S? I assumed while watching the replay (and not knowing until perhaps just now) that it was a design for a QB sprint to the pylon.

 

[pbrown520]

Did anyone have responsibility for the S? I assumed while watching the replay (and not knowing until perhaps just now) that it was a design for a QB sprint to the pylon.

The play was not a QB only play. It was a called option play. PJ addressed it in his post game presser.

 

[RonJohn]

Do you think the play was a pitch to Benson or an option between QB run and/or pitch to Benson? If Benson had blocked the S would that have been illegal by moving towards the interior to block someone?

It was a counter option, CPJ stated so in the post game press conference. SBNation has an article about how the play was messed up: https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...orgia-tech-two-point-conversion-overtime-2017

At this point, GT has four offensive players on the right side while TN only has three defensive players. If TQ had continued forward, the LB would have had to choose between tackling the QB and tackling the BB. The LB is the option guy, he is not supposed to be blocked. If TQ had kept moving forward, if the LB had gone toward Benson, TQ could walk in the end zone. If the LB had gone straight at TQ, TQ could pitch and Benson could have walked in the end zone behind the receiver. Benson wasn't anywhere close to the LB. If he had crossed in front of TQ as you suggest, then he would have slowed TQ down, and put both Benson and TQ in reach of the LB. It looks like in this shot, TQ is already turning back toward the middle. If he had continued along the designed path, it would have been a 99.999999% guarantee of a conversion.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

It looked like a counter trap veer. We used to run something similar is high school. Not to call our offense a "high school offense" as we hear. But, we ran something similar. Just not near that effective. You're right.. It was pretty much money.

I think GT was playing the classic Veer quite a lot on Monday night.

 

[volsportsfan]

thanks for this thread guys. I use gt in ncaa 14 ( Heisman of course ) and I had been wondering the same exact thing. That play you guys destroyed us with is nowhere in the flexbone formations.

If it were not for lag, I'd give some people serious problems in online play, I think

 

[alentrekin]

That play is a qb counter trey. This game had about as many wing-t concepts as triple option.

And fwiw, I just checked Taquon's 20 yard shuttle time, and wow, a 4.04.

For context...

20 Yard Shuttle
Using the successful running backs of the last five seasons as the benchmark, the 20-Yard Shuttle run appears to be a great predictor of fantasy excellence by ball carriers. Of the top 75 fantasy ball carriers of the last five years, 43 of them ran the short shuttle at their combine. And 31 of them finished between the 4.1 – 4.3-second range
https://gridironexperts.com/nfl-combine-numbers-and-fantasy-football-success

 

[MikeJackets1967]

That play is a qb counter trey. This game had about as many wing-t concepts as triple option.

And fwiw, I just checked Taquon's 20 yard shuttle time, and wow, a 4.04.

For context...

20 Yard Shuttle
Using the successful running backs of the last five seasons as the benchmark, the 20-Yard Shuttle run appears to be a great predictor of fantasy excellence by ball carriers. Of the top 75 fantasy ball carriers of the last five years, 43 of them ran the short shuttle at their combine. And 31 of them finished between the 4.1 – 4.3-second range
https://gridironexperts.com/nfl-combine-numbers-and-fantasy-football-success

The offense GT was running on UT Monday reminded me of the Veer offense Joe Morrison ran at South Carolina from 1983-1985.

 

[LongforDodd]

Did anyone have responsibility for the S?

It was a counter option, CPJ stated so in the post game press conference. SBNation has an article about how the play was messed up: https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...orgia-tech-two-point-conversion-overtime-2017

At this point, GT has four offensive players on the right side while TN only has three defensive players. If TQ had continued forward, the LB would have had to choose between tackling the QB and tackling the BB. The LB is the option guy, he is not supposed to be blocked. If TQ had kept moving forward, if the LB had gone toward Benson, TQ could walk in the end zone. If the LB had gone straight at TQ, TQ could pitch and Benson could have walked in the end zone behind the receiver. Benson wasn't anywhere close to the LB. If he had crossed in front of TQ as you suggest, then he would have slowed TQ down, and put both Benson and TQ in reach of the LB. It looks like in this shot, TQ is already turning back toward the middle. If he had continued along the designed path, it would have been a 99.999999% guarantee of a conversion.

Thanks for the explanation although I have another question. Our RT went after who I thought was an LB who then went on to make the stop with the DE. The LB who you said was being optioned is the second guy (in ugly orange) from the outside edge, right? I was calling him a S. Nonetheless, you're saying he was being optioned, right?

 

[Skeptic]

Interesting "inside" option stuff from all hands, starting with Johnson. For Tech fans, a painful excursion into a night of more than 600 yards total offense, an astonishing 535 yards rushing, 41 points, and a loss on the last play of the game for the proverbial lack of a nail. As a post script, I continue to be amazed at Johnson's field vision. That he could correctly dissect the errors immediately after the game with no film review benefit is remarkable.

 

[RonJohn]

Thanks for the explanation although I have another question. Our RT went after who I thought was an LB who then went on to make the stop with the DE. The LB who you said was being optioned is the second guy (in ugly orange) from the outside edge, right? I was calling him a S. Nonetheless, you're saying he was being optioned, right?

Yes that guy was supposed to be optioned. They is why the SBNation article shows the black line between him and the QB and the BB.

One thing that I would like to point out. TQ made a mistake on this play, but he had a very good game. This play was not "The Play" that cost GT the game. There were many plays that could have won the game: The missed FG, the fumble on the drive late in the 4th quarter, the overthrown ball to QS that was caused by a defender not being blocked, the D allowing TN to score quickly after the fumble. It is a team sport, and there isn't one player or one play that is responsible for losing.

 

[AE 87]

Yes that guy was supposed to be optioned. They is why the SBNation article shows the black line between him and the QB and the BB.

One thing that I would like to point out. TQ made a mistake on this play, but he had a very good game. This play was not "The Play" that cost GT the game. There were many plays that could have won the game: The missed FG, the fumble on the drive late in the 4th quarter, the overthrown ball to QS that was caused by a defender not being blocked, the D allowing TN to score quickly after the fumble. It is a team sport, and there isn't one player or one play that is responsible for losing.

If he were TW, it would be THE play, and it would show he can't win big games or can't finish.