Article What to expect against Florida State: A closer look through the lens of data

  • Highlight

What to expect against Florida State: A closer look through the lens of data

FSU Head Coach Mike Norvell (photo: Tori Lynn Schneider/Tallahassee Democrat)

Predicting the first week of college football in 2020 is likely a fool’s errand. This is already a season unlike any other, and Bowl Championship Subdivision (BCS) teams have yet to lace ’em up and play a game.

Adding mystery to intrigue is Georgia Tech’s week 1 foe, Florida State. If you were to draw two random teams out of a hat with the goal of finding the biggest questions marks heading into the season, you’d likely do no better than the Jackets and Seminoles.

Georgia Tech’s unknowns are well documented. We have a coaching staff that has been together at the BCS level for three years. The first two at Temple provided a small lens into their likelihood to succeed at Georgia Tech, with Head Coach Geoff Collins going 7-6 and 8-4 in two consecutive seasons at the helm.

That short tenure, combined with a 3-9 start in year 1 at Georgia Tech following the transition from the under center spread option, has only widened the array of prognostications for future success. Jackets’ fans don’t need another prediction from yours truly to inform their opinion. They need real data in the form of wins and losses in 2020, as well as signs of measurable statistical improvement on the field and in the overall program, to be swayed.

If we counted the number of variables in play for Georgia Tech in week 1, we’d have enough talking points to fill the 3.5 hours of television for the talking heads. Now add in Florida State, a media favorite going through their own coaching transition, and the output is a national TV spot on ABC, September 12, 3:30pm ET.

Head Coach Mike Norvell’s transition from Memphis to Tallahassee has been, let’s just say, interesting. Mostly heralded as a great hire, his first offseason has garnered the type of attention that Florida State fans were hoping had passed. Despite the coaching changes from Jimbo Fisher to Willie Taggart to Mike Norvell, drama continues to infest the Florida State program. Norvell was accused publicly by his inherited players of lying to the media in June. Then, his players publicly alleged nontransparency and concerns around Covid-19 testing safety in August. Strike 1 and 2?

Norvell can quickly push those stories to back burner through success on the field in year 1. The challenge is, given Florida State’s on-field dysfunction in 2019 and a coaching transition in 2020, where do you set the bar?

An oft-cited data point to measure a coach’s ability is to look at their relative performance via strength-adjusted metrics. Football Outsiders has long provided this trove of information, so let’s peel back the onion on Norvell’s tenure at Memphis, which stretched from 2016-2019.

Ignoring year 1 as his own transition year there, here’s how Norvell’s Tigers performed in his final three years.

For the sake of brevity, I’m going to assume that Georgia Tech fans have a baseline understanding of FEI as it’s an oft-cited metric.

So what’s the takeaway? In Norvell’s final three years at Memphis, his teams performed admirably overall, finishing around 32 overall and in the top 25 on offense and special teams. FEI is strength-adjusted, essentially meaning you can’t inflate your ranking by beating up on patsies, and more credit is earned through your performance against top teams.

Florida State floundered last year by its historical standards, finishing with an overall FEI of 49. Especially poignant was their performance in the phases where Norvell has historically excelled, finishing with an FEI strength-adjusted ranking of Offense on 67 and Special Teams on 87. The defense finished at a respectable but far from elite, 39.

So we have a chance, right? Yes, absolutely. But if we’re being fair, we have a long road to hoe to match Florida State’s performance of last year.

Here’s how the Jackets fared last year, with Collins’ first two years as a FBS head coach thrown in for added context.

If you were to calculate an average in apples to apples fashion, I would have to discount 2017 (year 1 at Temple) and 2019 (year 1 at Georgia Tech) as I did with Norvell’s average at Memphis. That leaves 2018 as a barometer, and one-year averages don’t mean a whole lot.

So what do I make of the data? At a minimum, I’m comfortable concluding that Collins’ and Offensive Coordinator Dave Patenaude’s offense at Temple improved after a troubling first year. That first year was apparently a lot like last year’s painful experience for Tech fans, which yields a healthy dose of optimism for this year. Likewise, defense has rarely been a question mark for Collins, who fielded salty defenses as a coordinator before accentuating that as his strength in Philadelphia.

In the end, there are question marks everywhere for both teams. Ev. Er. Y. Where. And with Covid-19, we should probably expect the unexpected with respect to ongoing roster attrition even in week 1. Based on 2019 performance and data, Florida State has the head start. Based on familiarity with a new system and “team cohesion”, the edge goes to Georgia Tech.

Florida State, playing at home, rightfully has the edge publicly and via the eyes of Vegas (11.5 point favorites). But as 2020 has proven, anything can happen.

 
Last edited:

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
8,816
Location
North Shore, Chicago
No decision yet, but expectations are that the scholarship limit will rise for a period of time.
One answer for sure is that seniors this year that come back will not count against the scholar numbers next year.

The problem is that the juniors this year will be juniors next year, so there would be no seniors counting against the scholarship numbers leaving after next year to make way for the 2022 class.

I've said all along that they would just make the entire roster scholarship-eligible (105). Sucks for the walk-ons, but that's life sometimes. Reduce maximum class allowed from 25 to 20 and then step back 5 scholarships until we're back to 85 total scholarships. Then the maximum class size can go back to 25.
 

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
6,080
Back to DC Adam Fuller

Memphis has been pretty good despite of their defense

CAF’s defenses allowed 32ppg in 18 & 26ppg in ‘19 is inheriting defense that allowed 29ppg(‘19) & 32ppg (‘18). It will be interesting to see if better athletes will improve those numbers or is CAF what his defensive numbers reflect? TBD
 

VintageWreck

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
266
Behind door 3 is a 2022 recruit who now has the opportunity to line up in the same defensive backfield as his bro in 2022!!
___________________________

Man, how special would that be?
One answer for sure is that seniors this year that come back will not count against the scholar numbers next year.

The problem is that the juniors this year will be juniors next year, so there would be no seniors counting against the scholarship numbers leaving after next year to make way for the 2022 class.

I've said all along that they would just make the entire roster scholarship-eligible (105). Sucks for the walk-ons, but that's life sometimes. Reduce maximum class allowed from 25 to 20 and then step back 5 scholarships until we're back to 85 total scholarships. Then the maximum class size can go back to 25.

I see this as a plausible solution. It's a little early to make a final decision. Good work Forensic.
 

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
9,880
Location
Oriental, NC
Back to DC Adam Fuller

Memphis has been pretty good despite of their defense

CAF’s defenses allowed 32ppg in 18 & 26ppg in ‘19 is inheriting defense that allowed 29ppg(‘19) & 32ppg (‘18). It will be interesting to see if better athletes will improve those numbers or is CAF what his defensive numbers reflect? TBD
I agree. He has never been what I would consider a rising star as a defensive coach. He will certainly have better players at FSU than he had at Memphis, but the competition should be better also. Will we be better than what he saw across the line at Memphis? That is the question we all have. Norvell's offenses at Memphis put up some big numbers, so we will probably be tested on defense.
 
Last edited:

BCJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
754
One answer for sure is that seniors this year that come back will not count against the scholar numbers next year.

The problem is that the juniors this year will be juniors next year, so there would be no seniors counting against the scholarship numbers leaving after next year to make way for the 2022 class.

How about: any 5th year (or greater) senior in their final year of eligibility doesn't count against the 85 for the next 5 seasons; so long as that player was on a Division 1 roster in 2020?

Edit: Apologies if that was weird. On my phone and this site isn't working great for me.
 

Techfan02

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
592
Fans, yes. They are allowing 20%-25% (all donors) according to their website. I saw a link last week that said no students, but could not find it yesterday. Unless there is something GTAA knows about, there will be no visiting team tickets.
So your saying that I'm not allowed?
 

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
8,816
Location
North Shore, Chicago
How about: any 5th year (or greater) senior in their final year of eligibility doesn't count against the 85 for the next 5 seasons; so long as that player was on a Division 1 roster in 2020?

Edit: Apologies if that was weird. On my phone and this site isn't working great for me.
That was part of the rule that this year wouldn't count against eligibility. All players who would have exhausted their eligibility this year do not count against scholly limits next year.
 

BCJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
754
That was part of the rule that this year wouldn't count against eligibility. All players who would have exhausted their eligibility this year do not count against scholly limits next year.

IIUC, for now, that's only for next year? I was replying to the part about this year's Juniors in 2022 and so on.
 

CuseJacket

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
19,531
New Article Posted
What to expect against Florida State: A closer look through the lens of data

Predicting the first week of college football in 2020 is likely a fool’s errand. This is already a season unlike any other, and Bowl Championship Subdivision (BCS) teams have yet to lace ’em up and play a game. Adding mystery to intrigue is Georgia Tech’s week 1 foe, Florida State. If you were to draw two random teams out of a hat with the goal of finding the biggest questions marks heading into the season, you’d likely do no better ...

 
Click here to read more ...
Last edited:

CuseJacket

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
19,531
Added data points from Norvell's time at Memphis as part of a preview article at the top of the thread
 

gtrower

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,877
I was hoping Blackmon would be their starter. He has not looked good (albeit behind a bad OL). Aside from their WR Terry their offense does not intimidate.
 

YJMD

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,620


That presser makes me feel hopeful that we will really do well in this game. Firstly, Norvell is quite complementary to CGC and clearly acknowledges the state of the roster being much better today than it was a year ago. About his own team, he commented on significant lack of time to do his installs. We've been there and seen the results. On the other hand, our guys had a year of experience in the system as a platform to study and prepare all off-season and are far more matured in this way going into the game. I am quite optimistic about our athletic talent but recognize that FSU has always been loaded in this way and has systems to install which are much more related to what came before, so I'm not going to be so bold as to predict even a win. However, I wouldn't be shocked if we win by double digits.
 

MWBATL

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,509
Yup.

Like I figured. No sideline reporters and minimal staff on sidelines for ACC ball

"In addition to the ACC MAG report, the ACC has significantly adjusted its 2020 Football Operations and Game Management protocols to eliminate all non-essential personnel from the sidelines and team auxiliary areas. Individuals that are deemed essential to have access to the sidelines will be required to meet specific and consistent health and safety standards as agreed upon by all 15 schools, including a temperature screening, symptom check, physical distancing and universal masking."
Rod
I'll be surprised if there are no sideline reporters, since ESPN had a sideline reporter (socially distanced, of course) at the season opening football game (Austin Peay-Central Arkansas). Yeah, I know it's a different conference and all, but usually, what ESPN wants, ESPN gets. We'll see...
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,894
Lots of unknowns on both sides. They certainly have had higher recruiting rankings than us but underachieved since Bowden. This will be an interesting matchup. Do their veterans like their new coach and do they have desire to play for him. Our guys seem to really like our coaches. Probably a good time for us to play them.
 

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
663
Top