What GT Does - Zone Running

[LongforDodd]

when the Falcons started using "Zone blocking" Alex Gibbs was their OL coach and Devonte Freeman was in year 1 or 2 of his career. When a run play was replayed, the color guy (Darryl Johnson did lot of these back then) was describing a play saying STTE of "zone blocking being used here" and it seems like all of the OL took off one way or the other in the same direction. Are you describing what Alex Gibbs did with the Falcons and which he apparently was known for?

 

[ilovetheoption]

when the Falcons started using "Zone blocking" Alex Gibbs was there OL coach and Devonte Freeman was in year 1 or 2 of his career. When a run play was replayed, the color guy (Darryl Johnson did lot of these back then) was describing a play saying STTE of "zone blocking being used here" and it seems like all of the OL took off one way or the other in the same direction. Are you describing what Alex Gibbs did with the Falcons and which he apparently was known for?

Yep. I mentioned the Broncos above. Gibbs was the broncos run game guru. Now, they ran more Angle than Zone, and most teams run more zone than angle (easier to install/block)

 

[FlatsLander]

FWIW, I think this was a bad ready by the QB. The RIGHT read right here is RPO to the top of the screen (which is why gibbs had to beat the tackle of #12) but I don't know what was called. Maybe that wasn't on.
View attachment 11240

I know about 100000X less than you about offensive philosophy, but I don't think there's an RPO called on this play for a couple reasons. First, Gibbs looks like he was lined up on Sims's right, which would add a lot of complication to the throw to the flat. If Gibbs was on Sims's left, that would be less of a problem. Second, it looks like the C and LG are pushing upfield, which puts them at risk of drawing an ineligible man downfield call.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I know about 100000X less than you about offensive philosophy, but I don't think there's an RPO called on this play for a couple reasons. First, Gibbs looks like he was lined up on Sims's right, which would add a lot of complication to the throw to the flat. If Gibbs was on Sims's left, that would be less of a problem. Second, it looks like the C and LG are pushing upfield, which puts them at risk of drawing an ineligible man downfield call.

I love this stuff I will argue back at you, but just because I'm argumentative, and not because I necessarily think you're wrong. (but, PLEASE push back on me whenever you like. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong
SO...
2) The linemen downfield thing. This is actually exactly what has made RPO's so tough to deal with since whenver the rule changed (2012?) to allow offensive linemen to be 3 yards downfield when the ball is released. It's a horse**** rule, but it's the rule, and it makes it impossible for linebackers, because 1) They block it just like a run, because RPO's happen so quick that they're not more than 3 yards downfield anyhow, and 2) EVEN IF THEY ARE LIKE 8 YARDS DOWNFIELD, REFS NEVER CALL IT (again, this is my old-man "football has turned in to basketball because you're not allowed to play defense anymore" rant).

1) I disagree here, too, because the whole thing of some RPO is that you often decide pre-snap whether you're going to throw it or not. Essentially, if the defense doesn't line up "right" (3 men out there to deal with your 3 men) you just abort the handoff and throw the bubble. With that in mind, you actually want the handoff on the OPPOSITE side, so he's not in the way of the pass. You just check alignment, and if the defense doesn't set up right, it's an autocheck to the bubble.

Now, there are DIFFERENT types of RPO's, (generally where you get a slot running like a Snag/Stick route behind the playside linebacker so if he dives down to stop the run, the receiver just settles down right behind where he was and it's pitch and catch) (We describe them as "elbow" throws, becuase it's just like standing under the basket on the baseline and throwing a pass to the elbow of the key. It opens up RIGHT in the QB's field of vision while he's doing the handoff, so he can pull it and throw). That's a read that happens after the snap. This would be a pre-snap read.

 

[ibeattetris]

@ilovetheoption continues to provide the best content on the board! Thanks for the post.

 

[cthenrys]

@ilovetheoption continues to provide the best content on the board! Thanks for the post.

Hear hear. That was awesome. Thanks!

 

[FlatsLander]

I love this stuff I will argue back at you, but just because I'm argumentative, and not because I necessarily think you're wrong. (but, PLEASE push back on me whenever you like. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong
SO...
2) The linemen downfield thing. This is actually exactly what has made RPO's so tough to deal with since whenver the rule changed (2012?) to allow offensive linemen to be 3 yards downfield when the ball is released. It's a horse**** rule, but it's the rule, and it makes it impossible for linebackers, because 1) They block it just like a run, because RPO's happen so quick that they're not more than 3 yards downfield anyhow, and 2) EVEN IF THEY ARE LIKE 8 YARDS DOWNFIELD, REFS NEVER CALL IT (again, this is my old-man "football has turned in to basketball because you're not allowed to play defense anymore" rant).

1) I disagree here, too, because the whole thing of some RPO is that you often decide pre-snap whether you're going to throw it or not. Essentially, if the defense doesn't line up "right" (3 men out there to deal with your 3 men) you just abort the handoff and throw the bubble. With that in mind, you actually want the handoff on the OPPOSITE side, so he's not in the way of the pass. You just check alignment, and if the defense doesn't set up right, it's an autocheck to the bubble.

Now, there are DIFFERENT types of RPO's, (generally where you get a slot running like a Snag/Stick route behind the playside linebacker so if he dives down to stop the run, the receiver just settles down right behind where he was and it's pitch and catch) (We describe them as "elbow" throws, becuase it's just like standing under the basket on the baseline and throwing a pass to the elbow of the key. It opens up RIGHT in the QB's field of vision while he's doing the handoff, so he can pull it and throw). That's a read that happens after the snap. This would be a pre-snap read.

Ah okay I could see that. I've been thinking of all RPOs as a "non-highschool" (TIC) version of the triple option, so all post snap reads. So if you run an RPO that's based on presnap reads, it's kind of like audibling without the audible? But the line blocks the same either way?

 

[ibeattetris]

Ah okay I could see that. I've been thinking of all RPOs as a "non-highschool" (TIC) version of the triple option, so all post snap reads. So if you run an RPO that's based on presnap reads, it's kind of like audibling without the audible? But the line blocks the same either way?

My understanding was there were multiple RPO. Some include presnap alignment and others require reading the movement of a key defender + alignment.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Ah okay I could see that. I've been thinking of all RPOs as a "non-highschool" (TIC) version of the triple option, so all post snap reads. So if you run an RPO that's based on presnap reads, it's kind of like audibling without the audible? But the line blocks the same either way?

Exactly so.
FWIW, if you wanted to say "that's not an RPO, that's a Packaged Play", you wouldn't be wrong, and I'd probably concede that your language is clearer, but there's so much overlap in terminology out there (see the 8 billion ways to describe what I call "Angle") that I grouped this into the "RPO" term.

if like @Ibeeballin wants to disagree, I'm open to being talked back

 

[ibeattetris]

From https://footballadvantage.com/rpo-football/ it looks like my assumption may be right. In honesty, I do not know if we run both.

How Does the Quarterback Choose Which Play to Run?​

There are two main types of RPOs:
1. A pre-snap RPO
2. A post-snap RPO
The names are indicative of when the quarterback decides to run or pass.
In a pre-snap RPO, he'll make that decision before the ball is snapped.
In a post-snap RPO, he'll make it after it's snapped.

Pre-Snap RPO​

In a pre-snap RPO, the quarterback will be focused on how the defensive is aligned in order to make his decision.
A common example is if the offense is running a Trips formation, which will have three receivers lined up on one side of the field.
The alignment of the defenders opposite these Trips receivers is what the quarterback will analyze when making his option decision.
If there are two defenders lined up to cover the three receivers, then the quarterback will often throw the ball.
If there are four defenders, then the quarterback will often hand the ball off to the running back.
Simply put, the quarterback is looking at the numbers to see if the scales are tilted either way -- either in the receivers' favor or in the defenders' favor.
In cases where the numbers are even on both sides, he'll make the option call based on the game situation as well as the rest of the defensive alignment.

Post-Snap RPO​

In a post-snap RPO, the quarterback will make the option decision based on the initial action of one of two players.
Depending on the play, he’ll focus on the middle linebacker or strong safety.
If this "key" player moves up toward the line of scrimmage once the ball is snapped, then the quarterback will often bring the ball down and throw the ball.
If this key player moves back from the line of scrimmage or even stays put, the quarterback will often hand the ball off for a running play.
The reason behind this is simple.
If this key player moves forward, it’ll open up space in the field for receivers to gain yardage with a pass play.
If this key player stays put or moves back, then there will be more room for a running back to roam after a handoff.
That's the beauty of an RPO.
It takes advantage of the weakness a defense is showing after the line up in their formation for the play.

 

[ilovetheoption]

From https://footballadvantage.com/rpo-football/ it looks like my assumption may be right. In honesty, I do not know if we run both.

You do both

 

[cthenrys]

Exactly so.
FWIW, if you wanted to say "that's not an RPO, that's a Packaged Play", you wouldn't be wrong, and I'd probably concede that your language is clearer, but there's so much overlap in terminology out there (see the 8 billion ways to describe what I call "Angle") that I grouped this into the "RPO" term.

if like @Ibeeballin wants to disagree, I'm open to being talked back

Id like to hear his thoughts. Seriously, this is fun stuff. I've always tried to spot things like this on TV broadcasts, but A) the camera angles usually don't support it and B) I'm usually enjoying ice cold refreshing beverages too much to pause, rewind and replay....

 

[bob4gt]

Thanks again, ILTO!

 

[takethepoints]

This was very enlightening. But … I still like a triple option better. What gets me is that you can run TO plays from the spread, but we don't. It's a mystery to me, frankly.

 

[Ibeeballin]

This was very enlightening. But … I still like a triple option better. What gets me is that you can run TO plays from the spread, but we don't. It's a mystery to me, frankly.

What do you call this then?

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

What do you call this then?

I count three choices which could have been made.

 

[UgaBlows]

Th

"Soothsayer: Beware the ides of March."
The Tragedy of Julius Caesar, Act I, Scene 2

A public place.

The date was March 15, 1978. A Georgian was in the white house, the number one song in the land was Night Fever, by the Bee Gees, Jacqueline Bisset was on the cover of Vogue, and football was about to change forever.

The NFL had come to a decision, inspired by the peak of Steel Curtain dominance: Defense wins championships, but Offense sells, and the NFL is a business above all else. The game was about to get forever ****tier (note: the prior sentence represents the opinion of @ilovetheoption , who believes that tom brady is going to burn in hell for having weak knees, and enabling the creation of the targeting rule)

On that day, the NFL released a series of rule changes designed purely to favor offense at the expense of defense that would revolutionize the game. Illegal contact downfield by defensive backs was made illegal. The penalty for intentional grounding was reduced. Passes no longer had to cross the line of scrimmage. The most impactful, though, was that offensive linemen were now able to A) Extend their arms, and B) Block with open hands.

Gone were the days of "Knuckles together and elbows out" blocking. Gone were the days where blockers were hitters. In that instant, "offensive holding" began its gradual decent into the joke of a penalty it is today, called only when the defender is tackled in a way that would make Dan Gable proud. The NFL chose offense over defense, and if you watch GT (or, really any football game at any level above "small high school"), you will see the result.

Pass blocking was, of course, revolutionized, but so was run blocking. Suddenly, the idea of sustaining a combo block was feasible in a way it was not in the past, and the result was the proliferation of the Zone Running scheme.

Thanks for taking the time to write this all out, really awesome work, and easy to understand

 

[UgaBlows]

What do you call this then?

God almighty that was a horrible block attempt by the guard

 

[slugboy]

God almighty that was a horrible block attempt by the guard

I'm not sure if he was going out to kick out for the QB, but it sure looks like he just went off in the wrong direction. If he'd just headed in the right direction, he might have gotten crushed in the block, but even that should have been enough to get in the end zone.
The tackler is an All-ACC first-team player, (LB: James Skalski, Clemson) but Clemson has a bunch.

 

[g0lftime]

Almost looked like the play was designed for the LB to follow the RB's and QB away from the hole but he made a quick read and the guard was not in position to block him out of the play. He didn't bite on the backfield motion. if he had it was a TD.