What group or position would you want to stand out?

dressedcheeseside

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Why? I am not trying to be a smart a$$ just want to understand your choice.
Because the qb handles the ball and makes critical decisions every single offensive snap. An elite qb assumes he can throw and run equally well. That opens up a whole other segment of the offense. Elite qb's not only make the correct decisions, but they execute those decisions on an elite level, as well.
 

augustabuzz

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I can see the argument for qb, but a powerful offensive line making the split second adjustments on the fly as one is the holy grail of football for me.
 

dressedcheeseside

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An elite O line can make a serviceable OB shine and an elite QB other worldly. Put a serviceable QB or an elite QB behind a poor O line and their results will suffer. See M.Ryan circa 2013 or P.Manning SB XLVIII
Conversely, a poor qb can make a decent OL look poor. See GT 2013. And when I say poor qb, I mean for what we were asking him to do.
 

AE 87

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I may be crazy, but I'm not worried about our O. If our OL looks top good, I'll be worried about our DL.

I want the only news from the spring to be D ad QB.
 

33jacket

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Because the qb handles the ball and makes critical decisions every single offensive snap. An elite qb assumes he can throw and run equally well. That opens up a whole other segment of the offense. Elite qb's not only make the correct decisions, but they execute those decisions on an elite level, as well.

but if the OL is as bad blocking as they were this past year, and they were serviceable...then i dont' think it matters to be elite especially in the passing game. Reads are important, only if the guys your are reading off of are blocked. If the scheme calls to read one in space, but now you have to deal with two because the OL whiffed on a block...it doesn't matter how elite you are, the play is dead. We saw this a ton this year.

In our offense an elite OL road grades people, and if you just have a guy like Tevin, serviceable...your explosion plays come from the option and up front...you don't even need to pass, just make the conservative serviceable read and you are good. Also, with an elite OL reads become more consistent for the QB...because he knows what to expect due to proper OL execution...it makes the QB's job MUCH easier...So in turn it makes the QB look better than he is. Our offense is much more unique this way.

So this is the reason why I pick OL first.

On the flip coin, I can totally understand the QB argument...that we left a lot of plays on the field with just our serviceable OL. But IMO not as many were left behind this year as we can make with a hoss OL....

Edit to say...we will see a stand out QB at GT before a standout OL....just due to mere numbers and GT's struggles to get great big uglies. So I hope you QB guys are right...
 
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dressedcheeseside

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but if the OL is as bad blocking as they were this past year, and they were serviceable...then i dont' think it matters to be elite especially in the passing game. Reads are important, only if the guys your are reading off of are blocked. If the scheme calls to read one in space, but now you have to deal with two because the OL whiffed on a block...it doesn't matter how elite you are, the play is dead. We saw this a ton this year.

In our offense an elite OL road grades people, and if you just have a guy like Tevin, serviceable...your explosion plays come from the option and up front...you don't even need to pass, just make the conservative serviceable read and you are good. Also, with an elite OL reads become more consistent for the QB...because he knows what to expect due to proper OL execution...it makes the QB's job MUCH easier...So in turn it makes the QB look better than he is. Our offense is much more unique this way.

So this is the reason why I pick OL first.

On the flip coin, I can totally understand the QB argument...that we left a lot of plays on the field with just our serviceable OL. But IMO not as many were left behind this year as we can make with a hoss OL....

Edit to say...we will see a stand out QB at GT before a standout OL....just due to mere numbers and GT's struggles to get great big uglies. So I hope you QB guys are right...
Can't argue with that. I actually think it's super close and may be a draw. I'd take either. Your last point is very, very important one, however, qb is just one guy while OL is 5. It is much more likely that we strike lightning in a bottle with qb than OL. Heck, we've had a few elite OL's: Uzzi, Shaq and the future Devine, but as you say, that doesn't matter when you have a Chamberlain on the outside scuttling the play.

One more plug for the qb, he has so many responsibilities in any given play. On just our bread and butter play, the inside veer, first he has to make the correct presnap read. Then he has continue to read the D all throughout the signal call and immediately post snap. DL's are getting better at disguising their intentions with multiple stunts, all of which must be ferreted out in tenths of seconds. Then he has to execute a flawless mesh which involves timing, footwork, feel, then make the correct decision to give or pull, then a whole new set of reads take over.

Quickness in getting down the line to put pressure on the pitch key is crucial then making AND executing the pitch/keep is vital. If he keeps, he has to be quick enough and fast enough to make the defense pay. If he pitches, he has to be on the money and on time or the play gets blown up or worse, a turnover ensues.

He has to be tough to take multiple hits a game and be elusive enough to avoid getting hit hard. He has to command respect from his team and coaches and has to rise to the occasion in crunch time when the game hangs in the balance.
 

AE 87

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but if the OL is as bad blocking as they were this past year, and they were serviceable...then i dont' think it matters to be elite especially in the passing game. Reads are important, only if the guys your are reading off of are blocked. If the scheme calls to read one in space, but now you have to deal with two because the OL whiffed on a block...it doesn't matter how elite you are, the play is dead. We saw this a ton this year.

In our offense an elite OL road grades people, and if you just have a guy like Tevin, serviceable...your explosion plays come from the option and up front...you don't even need to pass, just make the conservative serviceable read and you are good. Also, with an elite OL reads become more consistent for the QB...because he knows what to expect due to proper OL execution...it makes the QB's job MUCH easier...So in turn it makes the QB look better than he is. Our offense is much more unique this way.

So this is the reason why I pick OL first.

On the flip coin, I can totally understand the QB argument...that we left a lot of plays on the field with just our serviceable OL. But IMO not as many were left behind this year as we can make with a hoss OL....

Edit to say...we will see a stand out QB at GT before a standout OL....just due to mere numbers and GT's struggles to get great big uglies. So I hope you QB guys are right...

Your statement, "Reads are important, only if the guys your are reading off of are blocked" is wrong, as I understand it. In the base offense, the QB reads the guys that are not blocked. We option off guys to get a numbers advantage.

I wonder if some people who complain about our OL whiffing on blocks have a similar misunderstanding and include the people left unblocked intentionally in with those we legitimately whiffed on.
 

Legal Jacket

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I would say AB.

I would love to see us incorporate them into the passing game more. I would like to see them used in a way that reflects the Flexbone to be a 4WR set.

This is what I was going to say. ABs are important in so many ways. I think the lines are the most important, but after that the ABs. They run routes and, at least the past few years, have provided some of our better receivers. Usually when you see a big run its by one AB because another AB made a terrific block downfield. Two words: rocket toss.

You give us a few elite ABs and we are all of a sudden world beaters. Imagine if we had a Percy Harvin/CJ Spiller type at AB. That would open up a bunch of stuff everywhere else.
 

Legal Jacket

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Your statement, "Reads are important, only if the guys your are reading off of are blocked" is wrong, as I understand it. In the base offense, the QB reads the guys that are not blocked. We option off guys to get a numbers advantage.

I wonder if some people who complain about our OL whiffing on blocks have a similar misunderstanding and include the people left unblocked intentionally in with those we legitimately whiffed on.

There's probably a good bit of truth to this, especially when the QB chooses to keep the ball and there is a DE clogging the outside. The dude is obviously supposed to be left unblocked, but in those situations the ball is supposed to go to the BB. A lot of times I've heard fans yell "c'mon block somebody" when the problem was a missed read.
 

33jacket

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Your statement, "Reads are important, only if the guys your are reading off of are blocked" is wrong, as I understand it. In the base offense, the QB reads the guys that are not blocked. We option off guys to get a numbers advantage.

I wonder if some people who complain about our OL whiffing on blocks have a similar misunderstanding and include the people left unblocked intentionally in with those we legitimately whiffed on.

No u misred my point. If the play calls for an unblocked DE. Then u read off him to the next guy usually a S or OLB. The DE determines the BB handofff. But after that your next read has to be blocked to pitch. If not u have a unblocked DE and olb off the edge which is disaster.

The point here is the big plays come on the edge and the design is for the qb to read one unblocked not deal with 2 unblocked. Then with the olb blocked he reads the cb or crashing s for the pitch putting the AB One on one.

I dont have a misunderstanding here. We often first option off the de or dt. But i am talking about the next level which requires blocking execution. May be the mlb. Olb. Or S. But one OL will own that assignment every play.
 

AE 87

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No u misred my point. If the play calls for an unblocked DE. Then u read off him to the next guy usually a S or OLB. The DE determines the BB handofff. But after that your next read has to be blocked to pitch. If not u have a unblocked DE and olb off the edge which is disaster.

The point here is the big plays come on the edge and the design is for the qb to read one unblocked not deal with 2 unblocked. Then with the olb blocked he reads the cb or crashing s for the pitch putting the AB One on one.

I dont have a misunderstanding here. We often first option off the de or dt. But i am talking about the next level which requires blocking execution. May be the mlb. Olb. Or S. But one OL will own that assignment every play.

I'm still not sure that I follow what you are trying to say with "read off him to the next guy" For the triple option, the dive key, typically the DE but at times an LB, is unblocked. That's the person the QB reads for whether or not he gives to the B-Back. At that point he's not reading off him to someone else. That's the read. If the dive key is taking the dive, then the QB starts moving down the line. Again, the pitch-key is typically unblocked but he has to choose between taking the QB or taking the A-Back. That's the guy the QB is reading, the one unblocked guy for two potential ball-carriers.

Now it's true that if we don't get our blocks we'll end up having 2 or 3 defenders there, so it doesn't matter if the QB can make his reads, but that's because the guys who aren't being read weren't blocked. Maybe this is what you meant, but I don't understand your language.
 

33jacket

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I'm still not sure that I follow what you are trying to say with "read off him to the next guy" For the triple option, the dive key, typically the DE but at times an LB, is unblocked. That's the person the QB reads for whether or not he gives to the B-Back. At that point he's not reading off him to someone else. That's the read. If the dive key is taking the dive, then the QB starts moving down the line. Again, the pitch-key is typically unblocked but he has to choose between taking the QB or taking the A-Back. That's the guy the QB is reading, the one unblocked guy for two potential ball-carriers.

Now it's true that if we don't get our blocks we'll end up having 2 or 3 defenders there, so it doesn't matter if the QB can make his reads, but that's because the guys who aren't being read weren't blocked. Maybe this is what you meant, but I don't understand your language.
Its slang. Like the term turning a guy loose. You are trying to be webster with my statements. Reading off the guy is the term to read progression past your first. Most cases the DE. The DE read determines the bb give. You read off that to the next level where you expect those guys to be blocked. So what i am saying is the guys you read off to need to be blocked. Dont be so engineer with this stuff man its really simple. The key is doing it game speed. We rarely read off a lb in a 4-3 set. Very rare. Yes we have done it. But very rare. Its almost always a de or dt. Then those second level guys you read off to need to be blocked.
 

AE 87

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Its slang. Like the term turning a guy loose. You are trying to be webster with my statements. Reading off the guy is the term to read progression past your first. Most cases the DE. The DE read determines the bb give. You read off that to the next level where you expect those guys to be blocked. So what i am saying is the guys you read off to need to be blocked. Dont be so engineer with this stuff man its really simple. The key is doing it game speed. We rarely read off a lb in a 4-3 set. Very rare. Yes we have done it. But very rare. Its almost always a de or dt. Then those second level guys you read off to need to be blocked.
Please read my post again explain where you disagree. Iiuc, the qb is never looking at a guy that should be blocked. He shifts from unblocked dive key to unblocked pitch key.
 

Boomergump

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In a TO play there are two players on the defense left unblocked that are schematically eliminated by correct QB reads, hence the manpower advantage is created. Some of these posts are confusing me. We don't block reads. However, in 2013 there were some other guys "turned loose" who were supposed to be blocked. It happened most on the perimeter. I hope this is what we are talking about.
 

4shotB

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The choice clearly comes down to qb or OL. Now the real question is which would be more productive, a) an elite qb with a serviceable OL, or b) an elite OL with a serviceable qb? I'll take a.

A dominant OL can cover up for a serviceable QB. It simplifies the game plan considerably. Think back to the Uga game a few years ago when we were the favorite at home. There qb was an unkown but all he had to do was hand the ball off and their TB's averaged over 10 ypc. last year they beat us with another guy from the intramural team because they dominated us on the LOS, especially in the 2nd half. Give me an OL first (the one we had on the '90 team would do just fine.)
 

dressedcheeseside

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Then those second level guys you read off to need to be blocked.
This task can be made a lot easier by an elite qb. If you're qb is slow and indecisive, it give the defenders more time to defeat blocks. If your qb is running the option to perfection, the OL's don't have to do too much to create the necessary space on the edge. You shouldn't have to hold your block for more than a split second, just getting in the way of a defender is enough, most of the time. Vad was so slow and indecisive, our OL's had to hold their blocks way longer than should have to. He was so bad at the package of skills needed to run the option, our bread and butter, CPJ basically abandoned it altogether.
 

dressedcheeseside

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A dominant OL can cover up for a serviceable QB. It simplifies the game plan considerably. Think back to the Uga game a few years ago when we were the favorite at home. There qb was an unkown but all he had to do was hand the ball off and their TB's averaged over 10 ypc. last year they beat us with another guy from the intramural team because they dominated us on the LOS, especially in the 2nd half. Give me an OL first (the one we had on the '90 team would do just fine.)
Our LB's were absolutely horrid in that game.
 
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