What’s next for the ACC?

[slugboy]

Nice interview with David Hale at https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/espns-david-hale-on-dabo-as-ted-lasso. It’s short, though.

Yes, he’s a sports journalist, and some (possibly many—who can tell?) of you think he’s an idiot, but he gives some great insight on where the ACC is going, and some of the problems the conference is facing.

The big one is that, out of all the P5 conferences, the ACC pulls in the least revenue. As much as I like beating them, a depressed FSU doesn’t help there. (I’d like them to get well but keep losing to us). Aside from schools like Tech that finally pulled basketball back and fan interest with it, many of the schools may have maxed out their basketball revenue. Football is the place to grow, and all the schools need to get better at it.

As much as we like to think that we’re the only school that needs to grow and get more revenue, it’s true throughout the conference.

There is also good information in there about Notre Dame, and Dabo, and a few other topics.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I would think there would be some conversation about ND joining full time after the season they had.

 

[slugboy]

I would think there would be some conversation about ND joining full time after the season they had.

It was short. Possibly 2025. They made more money with us than they would make alone, but influential donors are still against ND joining

 

[Techster]

I would think there would be some conversation about ND joining full time after the season they had.

IF ND wanted to max out their revenue, they would join the B1G, NOT the ACC. There's a $20 million/per year disparity between B1G and ACC per member payout. (BTW, think about that when you think about the GT to B1G rumors that's out there with regard to the last round of expansion).

Report: SEC comes in 2nd to Big Ten in 2019 conference revenue

A recent report looked at the numbers for the 2019 fiscal year.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com

The only reason ND didn't "join" the B1G was because ACC let ND join the conference without a full time football commitment. B1G said if you want to join us, it's all or nothing. At some point, ND can't ignore the economics of the conference system and will have to join a conference or get left behind.

 

[slugboy]

I think GT basketball (Men’s and Women’s) getting relevant is a help for us turning our revenue. Getting McCamish full next year, selling Adidas gear, and getting donations going (even more) in the right direction should help us out.
Football needs to get healthy. We have a brutal schedule again, but finding a way even to a bowl in Mobile would be a big lift.
Raising the scholarship limit under COVID is an advantage for Alabama and Ohio State and the big money schools; they can absorb the extra expense and stockpile players better than us.
I’d like ND to join and raise all our revenues, but we have to fix our own house with or without ND. Wake and Tech and BC need to turn their revenues around and get our programs going in the right direction.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I think GT basketball (Men’s and Women’s) getting relevant is a help for us turning our revenue. Getting McCamish full next year, selling Adidas gear, and getting donations going (even more) in the right direction should help us out.
Football needs to get healthy. We have a brutal schedule again, but finding a way even to a bowl in Mobile would be a big lift.
Raising the scholarship limit under COVID is an advantage for Alabama and Ohio State and the big money schools; they can absorb the extra expense and stockpile players better than us.
I’d like ND to join and raise all our revenues, but we have to fix our own house with or without ND. Wake and Tech and BC need to turn their revenues around and get our programs going in the right direction.

Well, when it comes to the Adidas gear they better step it up. It is time for a new Football jersey design or go back to an old one. Also get that Gold jersey out there. I finally bought a basketball jersey to wear for the week. Haven't bought on of those in 30 years.

 

[Vespidae]

There's an old Marketing Maxim that it's better to be first in something than second in something else. For the ACC to "be relevant" in football requires displacing the SEC and on sheer numbers alone, that isn't likely. The ACC is the nation's premier basketball conference and they should be getting back to that as their cornerstone. Attendance and merchandising at football just isn't there based on the alumni program sizes.

 

[jacketup]

It's all about TV revenue. B1G is in 11 populous states with lots of eyeballs, and most schools are the flagship school for the state and/or they have no competition from another P5 conference in the state.

25% of ACC schools (more in football) are in NC. The ACC shares FL, GA, PA, KY and SC (and IN) with other P5 conferences. And the ACC doesn't have the flagship university in FL, GA, PA or KY, although CU is arguably more popular than SC--but not by much, and it's a small state. The population in NY and MA that cares about college football is relatively small.

You can talk about attendance all you want, but that's less important than eyes on a screen.

Not getting in the B1G, if rumors are true that we could have, was another mistake by our series of bad ADs after Rice. We would have opened southern recruiting for them and we would have gotten $$$.

 

[1979jacket]

It's all about TV revenue. B1G is in 11 populous states with lots of eyeballs, and most schools are the flagship school for the state and/or they have no competition from another P5 conference in the state.

25% of ACC schools (more in football) are in NC. The ACC shares FL, GA, PA, KY and SC (and IN) with other P5 conferences. And the ACC doesn't have the flagship university in FL, GA, PA or KY, although CU is arguably more popular than SC--but not by much, and it's a small state. The population in NY and MA that cares about college football is relatively small.

You can talk about attendance all you want, but that's less important than eyes on a screen.

Not getting in the B1G, if rumors are true that we could have, was another mistake by our series of bad ADs after Rice. We would have opened southern recruiting for them and we would have gotten $$$.

Granted we could use Big 10 money. However the travel and lack of any natural rivals may have destroyed the program. Maybe playing Indiana and Michigan St could have become a rivalry but nevertheless watching West Virgina play Texas teams has never really seemed normal.

 

[WreckinGT]

It's all about TV revenue. B1G is in 11 populous states with lots of eyeballs, and most schools are the flagship school for the state and/or they have no competition from another P5 conference in the state.

25% of ACC schools (more in football) are in NC. The ACC shares FL, GA, PA, KY and SC (and IN) with other P5 conferences. And the ACC doesn't have the flagship university in FL, GA, PA or KY, although CU is arguably more popular than SC--but not by much, and it's a small state. The population in NY and MA that cares about college football is relatively small.

You can talk about attendance all you want, but that's less important than eyes on a screen.

Not getting in the B1G, if rumors are true that we could have, was another mistake by our series of bad ADs after Rice. We would have opened southern recruiting for them and we would have gotten $$$.

If we had made Big 10 TV money this year then we still wouldn't be in the top 30 in athletic revenue. That would have been worth getting rid of all of our rivals, including possibly UGA?

 

[Techster]

Granted we could use Big 10 money. However the travel and lack of any natural rivals may have destroyed the program. Maybe playing Indiana and Michigan St could have become a rivalry but nevertheless watching West Virgina play Texas teams has never really seemed normal.

There was talk that GT would have come with another ACC team...either UNC or UVA. UNC was/is never going to leave the ACC because they are probably the flagship member of the ACC and get their way. UNC likes being the big fish. UVA would have had to deal with politics, the same politics that saw VT become an ACC member.

Programs aren't destroyed by not having any natural rivalries in this day and age. How many ACC schools are really "natural rivalries" for us anyways? Clemson? UGA will always be on our schedule. Remember, it's not like GT has been in the ACC for a long time...we joined in 1978. Nothing is lost if we never play Wake Forest, NC State, VT, Duke, Syracuse or their ilk again. You can make the argument that brands like Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin would have easily taken the place of any "natural rivalries" we lost. Atlanta is one of the biggest homes for B1G alumni, so BDS would have equal if not greater B1G attendance. Traveling is easy out of Atlanta, so it's not like traveling by bus or train in the early days.

The $20+ million a year is a LOT of money. The eight years we would have been in the B1G now would have given us $160 million extra over the years of our membership in the B1G. To give you an idea of what that means, AI 2020 brought in $175 million. I would argue that lack of money destroys programs more than lack of natural rivalries.

 

[Techster]

If we had made Big 10 TV money this year then we still wouldn't be in the top 30 in athletic revenue. That would have been worth getting rid of all of our rivals, including possibly UGA?

Who's all of our "rivals" in the ACC? Why would we needed to get rid of UGA? If that's the case, UGA would have not ever played us again after we joined the ACC.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

If we had made Big 10 TV money this year then we still wouldn't be in the top 30 in athletic revenue. That would have been worth getting rid of all of our rivals, including possibly UGA?

UGA rivalry is not going anywhere. Unlike Texas, both GT and UGA have to answer to the same Board of Regents, which prefer the two state flagship schools continue their 100+ year rivalry.

 

[augustabuzz]

There was talk that GT would have come with another ACC team...either UNC or UVA. UNC was/is never going to leave the ACC because they are probably the flagship member of the ACC and get their way. UNC likes being the big fish. UVA would have had to deal with politics, the same politics that saw VT become an ACC member.

Programs aren't destroyed by not having any natural rivalries in this day and age. How many ACC schools are really "natural rivalries" for us anyways? Clemson? UGA will always be on our schedule. Remember, it's not like GT has been in the ACC for a long time...we joined in 1978. Nothing is lost if we never play Wake Forest, NC State, VT, Duke, Syracuse or their ilk again. You can make the argument that brands like Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin would have easily taken the place of any "natural rivalries" we lost. Atlanta is one of the biggest homes for B1G alumni, so BDS would have equal if not greater B1G attendance. Traveling is easy out of Atlanta, so it's not like traveling by bus or train in the early days.

The $20+ million a year is a LOT of money. The eight years we would have been in the B1G now would have given us $160 million extra over the years of our membership in the B1G. To give you an idea of what that means, AI 2020 brought in $175 million. I would argue that lack of money destroys programs more than lack of natural rivalries.

It was Tech and Maryland.

 

[TruckStick]

20 years ago, conferences were in a different place. I’d rather fix the one we got and play southern teams.

Enrollment helps and GT is now the 2nd largest in the state.

TV contracts won’t be as large in the future.. times are changing.. comes down to viewers on those channels and how those networks are carried. Comcast taking up ACCN would help.

 

[Techster]

It was Tech and Maryland.

Maryland already joined by that time. BIG was looking to add more schools along the East Coast/South:

https://frankthetank.org/2013/02/19/b1g-dirty-south-expansion/

 

[augustabuzz]

Maryland already joined by that time. BIG was looking to add more schools along the East Coast/South:

https://frankthetank.org/2013/02/19/b1g-dirty-south-expansion/

Not when they first approached us.

 

[Techster]

Not when they first approached us.

You may be right:

2010–2014 Big Ten Conference realignment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However, in mid-November 2012, the landscape changed, as ESPN reported that the University of Maryland, a charter member of the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), was in "serious negotiations" to join the Big Ten.[11] Yahoo! Sports confirmed the news, and added that Big East Conference member Rutgers University was also in advanced talks to join the Big Ten.

From what I've read, B1G invited Rutgers after GT turned them down. So what you're saying makes sense.

EDIT:

Someone on this board mentioned that GT decision makers turning down B1G was a one of the main reasons DRad left GT to go to Clemson.

 

[JacketOff]

What good is earning more revenue if everyone you compete with is also earning more revenue?

Maryland left the ACC in favor of the B1G, and what have they gained in return? In their 7 seasons in the B1G they are 30-49 in football with just 1 winning season (their first one) compared to 38-50 with 3 winning seasons over their last 7 seasons in the ACC. Their basketball program has seen a boost, but if the point of supporting a move is more revenue, basketball revenue is small potatoes compared to what football can bring in.

Nebraska has been in the B1G for a decade and has fallen from a premier program in the country to an irrelevant cellar dweller. In 10 seasons in the B1G Nebraska is 68-55 (.552) and over the last 6 they are 31-39 with losing seasons in 5 of those 6. Their last 10 years in the Big 12 they were 84-49 (.631), and won or finished tied for 1st in their division 5 times. They have won their division just once since the move. Their basketball program has moved laterally, if not taken a step back. Nebraska has one of the largest fan bases in the country. They have the longest football sellout streak (regardless of whether or not all seats were filled) in the country. Their fans travel well to all of their sporting events; football, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc. If they can’t take the extra revenue and make their football team relevant, why would anybody think it’s possible anywhere else? Tech included. If anything it would put Tech at an even larger disadvantage relative to competition. All it would do is open up an avenue for powerhouse B1G teams to recruit southern athletes, especially GA and ATL ones even better than they already are.

 

[WreckinGT]

Who's all of our "rivals" in the ACC? Why would we needed to get rid of UGA? If that's the case, UGA would have not ever played us again after we joined the ACC.

I guess the term rival is subjective but aside from Maryland we have played 16 games total against the rest of the Big 10 all time. Compare that to 80+ vs Duke and Clemson. 50+ vs UNC. 40+ vs UVA. We would be giving up ND games as well who we have played 36 times. We simply have no history with the Big 10 at all and I’m not entirely sure playing any of them would interest our fan base at all.

As for UGA, I’m not sure what would have happened. If you didn’t notice, there are no Big 10 teams playing out of conference games the last week of the season. Would the game have been moved earlier in the season? Would the Big 10 have made concessions just for us? I’m not sure.