UVA @ GT, 7pm ET, ACCNX

OG-T

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
132
Lot of chances left, but feeling like a season lost. From first two games to so many open looks tonight. VA twice. Duke. And as for DeVoe, he is a great SA. He represents the school well. But I wish his true talent shined in brightest moments like Jose, however, DeVoe doesn’t seem to thrive when the heat is the hottest. Hope it changes now thru his Sr year. Pulling for the kid, but I def don’t get the Anthony Morrow, Marvin Lewis, Dennis Scott feeling when DeVoe releases the ball. If he could hit 45%, 40% of those momentum swinging 3s, he woulda changed our season.
 

bke1984

Helluva Engineer
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2,311
Not sure if you're just missing the point or intentionally ignoring it. Every time Devoe has an off game people speculate about it being more than just an off game. His body language is suddenly indicative of a deeper issue. He's going to transfer after the year. etc etc. He's streaky. It's who he is. It happened multiple times last year and has happened a couple times this year. After the duke game was absurd. It's like people haven't seen a streaky shooter before.


And yeah, we'd be better off if he were more consistent. But he's scored in double digits 11/16 games. He's had more games of scoring 19 or above than he has of scoring below 10. It sucks that two of those games were aginst UVA and probably cost us two big wins, but it's not indicative of anything more than a streaky shooter being the wrong kind of streaky.
I don’t really care what the reason is. He’s supposed to be our best player and right now I think he’s probably our third best player. And it’s not all points. Missed shots matter. Here are his FG% stats since January 1st. Only twice has he eclipsed 50%. Three times he’s been below 25%. It’s beyond “we’d be better off if he were more consistent.” He has to be more consistent because the team is relying on it and suffering because he’s not.

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bwelbo

Helluva Engineer
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14,894
Can we not do this every time he has an off game please?

People made a big deal after the duke game saying he was going to transfer. He then averaged over 18 the next 3 games hitting over 50% of his threes.

Mike played well tonight. He took good shots. They just didn't fall. It happens.

Well, I think you read too much into my post. I didn’t and am not one of the people who said those other things.
 

bwelbo

Helluva Engineer
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14,894
Rewatched some of the game again. Damn - Huff blocked 3 dunks just in the first half that I saw. 3 dunks. Man that game should have been closer.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
591
We only have 2 legit players - Moses and Alvarado. And unfortunately Alvarado is the typical stats guy on a bad team. There’s a reason no one has considered us a tourney team for a long time. We are mired in mediocrity in coaching and players.
 

Connell62

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2,290
we dont need devoe to score to win. several examples to disprove that. but, against big/long matchups that are able to limit moses offensively, we do need devoe to score. cant have both moses and devoe shutdown offensively. but every shooter has off nights. devoe has had a few, and too many GT fans are hyper-focused on it because he was a 4-star recruit and had solid frosh and soph years. that does not mean he is immune to bad shooting nights.

love moses, but for those worried about him leaving after this year, i think almost every game vs size/length shows that he needs another year of development before pursuing an overseas or G-league career.

he had a few very nice 1v1 possessions on the perimeter vs huff. but overall, huff was able to neutralize him despite moses' speed advantage. that is a matchup he would expect to see regularly/constantly once he goes overseas or G-league.
This team is not going to win very often with Mike Devoe scoring only 2pts. Point blank, period. Coach will tell you that.

That's not to put it all on Mike, but he has to be more consistent. If the 3 isn't falling, find another way to get points. Get to the line, midrange, etc.

I don't think anything is wrong with him or that he is unhappy, but he has to find a way to become more of a consistent scorer.

This is especially true in the big games like this one.
 

dtm1997

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12,740
Rewatched some of the game again. Damn - Huff blocked 3 dunks just in the first half that I saw. 3 dunks. Man that game should have been closer.

How many fouls should the have been called for on those 3 dunks?
 

bwelbo

Helluva Engineer
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14,894
How many fouls should the have been called for on those 3 dunks?

Going from memory, but I'd say 0. There was possibly one where Moses went to the floor and there was some body contact, but to me it was relatively minor. Just seemed to be some lack of awareness for where Huff was so their orientation and positioning wasn't leaving themselves open to a block. When you're 6 inches from the rim, you gotta score.
 
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orientalnc

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,363
Rant alert:

When we lose to a top 25 team some of our members are inexcusably and reflexively negative regarding individual players and coaches. I don't understand that level of inconsistency of opinion regarding the team. We are not a top 25 team right now and I do not think many posters are claiming that. Every team at our level has lost games they could have won had they been slightly better or shot the ball better or made fewer mistakes. That is the nature of competitive sports. It does not indicate the need to bench players or fire coaches. Remember, no one on this forum is as invested in the success of the team as are the players and coaches. They are not unaware of the areas where improvement is needed.

End rant.
 

Fatmike91

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,015
This team is not going to win very often with Mike Devoe scoring only 2pts. Point blank, period. Coach will tell you that.

That's not to put it all on Mike, but he has to be more consistent. If the 3 isn't falling, find another way to get points. Get to the line, midrange, etc.

I don't think anything is wrong with him or that he is unhappy, but he has to find a way to become more of a consistent scorer.

This is especially true in the big games like this one.

I would be pleasantly surprised if we installed some set plays for Devoe to get open looks for 3.

Our scheme doesn’t make it easy for him to get good shots if the other team schemes to take him away.

Virginia allowed Moses and Khalid to shoot 3 anytime they wanted but they correctly had a very high level of attention on Devoe.

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Connell62

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2,290
I would be pleasantly surprised if we installed some set plays for Devoe to get open looks for 3.

Our scheme doesn’t make it easy for him to get good shots if the other team schemes to take him away.

Virginia allowed Moses and Khalid to shoot 3 anytime they wanted but they correctly had a very high level of attention on Devoe.

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Mike shot an airball that nearly broke the backboard with no one within 5 feet from him. Let's call a spade, a spade.

He played like **** last night (on the offensive end) and has disappeared in some of our biggest games. It wasn't about their scheme. Hell, he had open looks all night.

This team won't be successful without his offense. I love the kid, he's one of my favorite players, but a part of being an experienced player is finding your offense when the shots aren't falling.

Like others have said, this team relies on Mike. He plays well, we usually win or stand a great chance of winning. If not, it takes above average performances from more than one person for us to win.
 

dtm1997

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Going from memory, but I'd say 0. There was possibly one where Moses went to the floor and there was some body contact, but to me it was relatively minor. Just seemed to be some lack of awareness for where Huff was so their orientation and positioning wasn't leaving themselves open to a block. When you're 6 inches from the rim, you gotta score.
I'd be interested to hear your take if you focus on Huff using his body as part of those blocks. Might change your view on it.

The one at the end of the half on Moses was definitely a foul.
 

Techster

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13,230
Going into this game, if you would have told me that we hold Hauser and Huff to 14 COMBINED points, I would have told you we probably win. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. We shot 36% overall, and 19% from 3. It's not like we didn't have good looks...we had PLENTY of good looks.

Moses was 4/11 overall, and Devoe was 1-10 overall. That's the game. They both took good shots, Moses especially with his aggressiveness going to the basket, or with his post moves. Shots just were not falling for us. I can't remember many instances where I thought Devoe took a bad shot, or had a bad turnover....he only had 2 TOs against UVA, which is good for him. If both of them make 2 more shots each, we win the game.

Our defense probably played one of its best games of the year, outside of a game turning 3-4 minutes towards the end of the 2nd half. We had 8 TOs compared to UVA's 17 TOs. UVA had 5 offensive rebounds compared to our 3...so it's not like UVA had a lot of 2nd chance points.

Usher was VERY dynamic this game. He showed some creative shots this game to go with his usual athleticism. IMO, he didn't shoot enough this game, and he was flat out abusing Hauser all game. I thought he should have went at UVA more, but it seemed he kind of deferred more in the 2nd half. He got to the foul line 5 times...most of our players. If Usher is on, we need to ride him until the gas tank is empty because he has become a legit weapon for us.

Bubba...man he made some outstanding plays for us. Lots of the little things that help us. That one sequence where he scored and went down the other end stole the ball was phenomenal.

Another good night for Jose, and really the only thing you can complain about with him against UVA is his 4 TOs and "only" 1 steal. That shows you how high the bar for Jose we have for him...he's just that good.

Obviously, VERY disappointed in the outcome. If we make a few more shots, this is a win. We couldn't play much better on defense than we did.

Time to turn the page. We've got a LONG road ahead the next two weeks.

EDIT:

I'd also like to add, all this negativity towards Devoe is kinda crazy. I think I'm pretty critical of some of the things Devoe does (like picking up his dribble!), but Devoe is one of the best players in the ACC. He had an off night...like pretty much all of our players have from time to time outside of Jose. You can't compare our players to Jose, because Jose has become a transcendent player for our program.
 
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bwelbo

Helluva Engineer
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14,894
I'd be interested to hear your take if you focus on Huff using his body as part of those blocks. Might change your view on it.

The one at the end of the half on Moses was definitely a foul.

I am always down for complaining about the Refs. :) I was just trying to go from memory.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,767
Well, I think you read too much into my post. I didn’t and am not one of the people who said those other things.

I didn't say you said those things. I said people did. You did post that "something is just not right" which indicates you think it was more than just a poor shooting night. It's not as extreme as the other examples but it's the same basic idea. Mike shot poorly. It happens. There's nothing really more to it than that.
 

LibertyTurns

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,371
We didn’t win but damn we had #9 on the ropes again. I like the way CJP has us playing. We beat a mid-pack ACC team last night with that effort, we beat top tier ACC teams if our open shots go down.

The sad reality is those first 2 games may have sunk the ship.
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
114
This team is not going to win very often with Mike Devoe scoring only 2pts. Point blank, period. Coach will tell you that.

That's not to put it all on Mike, but he has to be more consistent. If the 3 isn't falling, find another way to get points. Get to the line, midrange, etc.

I don't think anything is wrong with him or that he is unhappy, but he has to find a way to become more of a consistent scorer.

This is especially true in the big games like this one.
i agree with this for the most part. we cant have mike regularly producing so few points, but an occasional off shooting night does not need to mean an automatic L for gt. my argument was that if mike occasionally has an off night, we can still win, but to do so we cannot have other scoring leaders have an off night at the same time. last night the *combination* of only 10 points from mike and moses was killer, not just mike having a bad night.
 

1979jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
345
Going into this game, if you would have told me that we hold Hauser and Huff to 14 COMBINED points, I would have told you we probably win. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. We shot 36% overall, and 19% from 3. It's not like we didn't have good looks...we had PLENTY of good looks.

Moses was 4/11 overall, and Devoe was 1-10 overall. That's the game. They both took good shots, Moses especially with his aggressiveness going to the basket, or with his post moves. Shots just were not falling for us. I can't remember many instances where I thought Devoe took a bad shot, or had a bad turnover....he only had 2 TOs against UVA, which is good for him. If both of them make 2 more shots each, we win the game.

Our defense probably played one of its best games of the year, outside of a game turning 3-4 minutes towards the end of the 2nd half. We had 8 TOs compared to UVA's 17 TOs. UVA had 5 offensive rebounds compared to our 3...so it's not like UVA had a lot of 2nd chance points.

Usher was VERY dynamic this game. He showed some creative shots this game to go with his usual athleticism. IMO, he didn't shoot enough this game, and he was flat out abusing Hauser all game. I thought he should have went at UVA more, but it seemed he kind of deferred more in the 2nd half. He got to the foul line 5 times...most of our players. If Usher is on, we need to ride him until the gas tank is empty because he has become a legit weapon for us.

Bubba...man he made some outstanding plays for us. Lots of the little things that help us. That one sequence where he scored and went down the other end stole the ball was phenomenal.

Another good night for Jose, and really the only thing you can complain about with him against UVA is his 4 TOs and "only" 1 steal. That shows you how high the bar for Jose we have for him...he's just that good.

Obviously, VERY disappointed in the outcome. If we make a few more shots, this is a win. We couldn't play much better on defense than we did.

Time to turn the page. We've got a LONG road ahead the next two weeks.

EDIT:

I'd also like to add, all this negativity towards Devoe is kinda crazy. I think I'm pretty critical of some of the things Devoe does (like picking up his dribble!), but Devoe is one of the best players in the ACC. He had an off night...like pretty much all of our players have from time to time outside of Jose. You can't compare our players to Jose, because Jose has become a transcendent player for our program.
The defense scheme of going under screens worked very well in the first half but IMO I was worried abou that strategy. Why? Because generally you can't go under screens and succeed - it leaves an open shot - and I think it caught up with us late in the game. Alvarado was fantastic on defense. Obviously 1-10 and 4-11 had a lot to do with the loss. Nevertheless, going under screens will generally not work and UVA jumped that strategy in the 2nd half..
 

Fatmike91

Helluva Engineer
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1,015
The defense scheme of going under screens worked very well in the first half but IMO I was worried abou that strategy. Why? Because generally you can't go under screens and succeed - it leaves an open shot - and I think it caught up with us late in the game. Alvarado was fantastic on defense. Obviously 1-10 and 4-11 had a lot to do with the loss. Nevertheless, going under screens will generally not work and UVA jumped that strategy in the 2nd half..

You're right going under screens is generally not going to work — but allowing Huff and Hauser to run free inside is worse.

Pick your poison.

/
 
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