Unleashing CTR's Defense

[33jacket]

I agree with this assessment. However, it seemed to me that Brant was playing "faster" in the spring than I remember him doing so last fall. Others more knowledgeable may differ but that was my impression. FWIW

IIRC I said this spring a year ago too. Vs our O, our D is repping a ton against it first off, but more specifically a guy like brant isn't challenged in space the same way he is in 11 set zone spread teams.....he won't look the same. Many times his assignments vs our O are what he does well. FYI, also, vs our O its almost impossible to tell how our D is playing....so for me, so little to take from it.

I hope you are right, but the evaluation up to now, has been what we know vs hope/project/guess. So clearly this year he could change that.

 

[Longestday]

I really have no idea what could unleash CPJs defense (yes, I believe this is his defense even if CTR owns it). But, I have thoughts just like everyone else...

I know better on everything is not an answer but I see these with my untrained eye:
Better timing and variety of rushing
Better hiding rushing attempts
Better block avoidance/block shedding on rushing

Mix it up on third and >5 yards. Guard the first down line versus safeties and CB's 5 to 10 yards behind the marker every time. Our defense is best in fewer plays longer than 20 yards for a reason.

Keep it simple as needed to allow the players to play fast.

I don't think you need NFL first round draft player to do the above....

 

[Sideways]

IIRC I said this spring a year ago too. Vs our O, our D is repping a ton against it first off, but more specifically a guy like brant isn't challenged in space the same way he is in 11 set zone spread teams.....he won't look the same. Many times his assignments vs our O are what he does well. FYI, also, vs our O its almost impossible to tell how our D is playing....so for me, so little to take from it.

I hope you are right, but the evaluation up to now, has been what we know vs hope/project/guess. So clearly this year he could change that.

I was afraid of this. You are probably right. He will need to get better against the spread teams like UNC but I don't know if his skill set will permit it.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I really have no idea what could unleash CPJs defense (yes, I believe this is his defense even if CTR owns it). But, I have thoughts just like everyone else...

I know better on everything is not an answer but I see these with my untrained eye:
Better timing and variety of rushing
Better hiding rushing attempts
Better block avoidance/block shedding on rushing

Mix it up on third and >5 yards. Guard the first down line versus safeties and CB's 5 to 10 yards behind the marker every time. Our defense is best in fewer plays longer than 20 yards for a reason.

Keep it simple as needed to allow the players to play fast.

I don't think you need NFL first round draft player to do the above....

You need good players to do any of the above well. You need very good players to do it well enough to be top 20D.

 

[alentrekin]

I was afraid of this. You are probably right. He will need to get better against the spread teams like UT, UCF, Duke, UNC, Clemson, Virginia Tech, et al

:/

 

[CuseJacket]

Of course he's the head coach so everything is his, but that's not the point. The D is Roof's design and implementation. The coordinators specialize in one side of the ball or the other. The head coach oversees the two. If you guys don't see any role specialization in the coaching structure, I can't help you. There's no wonder to me nobody questioned the thread title till post #49 when somebody wanted to argue semantics instead of talk defense.

Cheese, I get why the thread is titled CTR's defense, and I get your point. Not saying my point refutes yours. But let me clarify that my post was not intended to be a "gotcha" or discussion of semantics.

Two things I would say.

First, other replies touched on CPJ's involvement with the D and its design. CTR and his scheme doesn't and shouldn't operate in a vacuum. When the HC hires a DC, I would hope/pray it comes with a mutual expectation of style and goals.

Second, your OP and many of the subsequent posts focus on individual player development rather than scheme. As it relates to individual player development, I'd offer that the offseason training programs and technique improvements have as much if not more to do with CPJ's direction/agreement to the direction of those workouts.

My point is not intended to absolve CTR of responsibility nor do I think the above refutes your stance. I think arguing absolutes is silly (i.e., CPJ vs. CTR) when they each have a hand in it. I just don't know to what degree each is accountable for the results. It's certainly shared at a minimum, imo.

 

[AE 87]

Cheese, I get why the thread is titled CTR's defense, and I get your point. Not saying my point refutes yours. But let me clarify that my post was not intended to be a "gotcha" or discussion of semantics.

Two things I would say.

First, other replies touched on CPJ's involvement with the D and its design. CTR and his scheme doesn't and shouldn't operate in a vacuum. When the HC hires a DC, I would hope/pray it comes with a mutual expectation of style and goals.

Second, your OP and many of the subsequent posts focus on individual player development rather than scheme. As it relates to individual player development, I'd offer that the offseason training programs and technique improvements have as much if not more to do with CPJ's direction/agreement to the direction of those workouts.

My point is not intended to absolve CTR of responsibility nor do I think the above refutes your stance. I think arguing absolutes is silly (i.e., CPJ vs. CTR) when they each have a hand in it. I just don't know to what degree each is accountable for the results. It's certainly shared at a minimum, imo.

Don't feed the Troll. In 2013, Steve Adazio became the HC of BC and made Don Brown his DC. He became DC of Michigan for 2016. That did not happen because he was a name on Adazio's D.

BC was 92 in ypp D in 2013, then 30 in 2014 and 1 in 2015.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Why does everyone always reference VT's D as Bud Foster's D?

Each coordinator has to take ownership of what he's coordinating. That doesn't absolve any head coach of responsibility directing those coordinators pre season, in games, between games, or in the postseason.

I guess this is only confusing to some bc CPJ is the HC and his own OC.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

Why does everyone always reference VT's D as Bud Foster's D?

Each coordinator has to take ownership of what he's coordinating. That doesn't absolve any head coach of responsibility directing those coordinators pre season, in games, between games, or in the postseason.

I guess this is only confusing to some bc CPJ is the HC and his own OC.

true but everyone also calls it Saban's D. not Smart's or Pruitts, or Muschamps.

 

[Milwaukee]

Can one of the recent former players here on the board answer this question for me:

Does facing the flexbone triple option the majority of the time cause our Defensive players to struggle more so than they normally would? I know we prep with the scout team to give the D authentic looks but I'm curious if not seeing a "conventional" style more regularly plays a role in our defensive struggles.

AE made a good point in another thread - we are ranked in the 100's in defensive categories but we're not recruiting horrible 100's level players. We've been abysmally bad in some cases.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Can one of the recent former players here on the board answer this question for me:

Does facing the flexbone triple option the majority of the time cause our Defensive players to struggle more so than they normally would? I know we prep with the scout team to give the D authentic looks but I'm curious if not seeing a "conventional" style more regularly plays a role in our defensive struggles.

AE made a good point in another thread - we are ranked in the 100's in defensive categories but we're not recruiting horrible 100's level players. We've been abysmally bad in some cases.

Let's be accurate in our bashing of the D, shall we. We are "ranked in the 100's" in 3 of 8 defensive stat categories.

defensive rankings:

(mediocre)
scoring D: 39
rushing D: 64
passing D: 68
total D: 59
redzone D: 41

(bad)
3rd down D: 126
sacks: 107
TFL's: 114

The first 5 categories are very much in line with where we have been recruiting.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/national/index.html

 

[AE 87]

Let's be accurate in our bashing of the D, shall we. We are "ranked in the 100's" in 3 of 8 defensive stat categories.

defensive rankings:

(mediocre)
scoring D: 39
rushing D: 64
passing D: 68
total D: 59
redzone D: 41

(bad)
3rd down D: 126
sacks: 107
TFL's: 114

The first 5 categories are very much in line with where we have been recruiting.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/national/index.html

Once again, scoring D is a misleading stat. I also think we've recruited better than 50's on D.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Once again, scoring D is a misleading stat. I also think we've recruited better than 50's on D.

That's why I posted several (8) stats. Even if it's misleading, it's still the most important, a D's primary job is to limit points by the opposition.

Also, I disagree with your last point. I don't have the time to look up and compile our average recruiting ranking on D over the last 5 years, but I highly doubt it's much better than 50.

Good news is if we just improve the pass rush, all those "bad" stats will see a marked increase.

 

[AE 87]

That's why I posted several (8) stats. Even if it's misleading, it's still the most important, a D's primary job is to limit points by the opposition.

Also, I disagree with your last point. I don't have the time to look up and compile our average recruiting ranking on D over the last 5 years, but I highly doubt it's much better than 50.

Good news is if we just improve the pass rush, all those "bad" stats will see a marked increase.

I don't understand how you still don't seem to get it.

Yes, the most important stat is how well the D keeps opposition from scoring. However, ranking of pts/games allowed doesn't answer that when we often face 2/3 the number of possessions other defenses face.

 

[Milwaukee]

We are "ranked in the 100's" in 3 of 8 defensive stat categories.

Correct. That's not good.

I'm curious to hear a player's perspective.

 

[slugboy]

true but everyone also calls it Saban's D. not Smart's or Pruitts, or Muschamps.

Because he's the de-facto defensive coordinator, even if he lets someone else have the title?

 

[Longestday]

FEI says it all... 96th in defense... we have better players than 96.

 

[slugboy]

Let's be accurate in our bashing of the D, shall we. We are "ranked in the 100's" in 3 of 8 defensive stat categories.

defensive rankings:

(mediocre)
scoring D: 39
rushing D: 64
passing D: 68
total D: 59
redzone D: 41

(bad)
3rd down D: 126
sacks: 107
TFL's: 114

The first 5 categories are very much in line with where we have been recruiting.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/national/index.html

Regarding some of the stats, I like these ones: http://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2016-georgia-tech-advanced-statistical-profile. They're normalized, so our TOP and the number of drives should be factored out.
Std. Downs Run Rate
Ours = 57.0% -> #92 National Average = 60.2%
Pass. Downs Run Rate
Ours = 38.0%-> #29 National Average = 34.5%
Overall Havoc Rate
Ours = 11.9% -> #123 National Average = 15.8%
DL Havoc Rate
Ours = 4.4% -> #71 National Average = 5.0% (slightly below average)
LB Havoc Rate
Ours = 2.1% -> #123 National Average = 4.3% (less than half of the national average)
DB Havoc Rate
Ours = 5.3% -> #101 National Average = 6.4% (low, especially for a fairly talented secondary)
PD to INC
Ours = 26.2% -> #121 National Average = 33.1% (we intercept or break up fewer passes on average)

Couple of issues there. Our DL was the best part of our defense for havoc (tackles for loss, forced fumbles, passes broken up or intercepted...). Our LB corps was the weakest. I would think our LBs would be a lot closer to average.
FWIW, Brant Mitchell was just about as statistically strong as PJ.

Can we really keep saying "if we had a better defensive line, we'd have better LB play?". Simmons and Freeman are solid ends. We haven't had first-team all-ACC at DT, but they're at least serviceable. There are other teams that have a linebacking corps that bring up the rest of the team. Shouldn't our LB play still be better than it is?

May not come as a shock that we were also #101 at kickoff returns.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Regarding some of the stats, I like these ones: http://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2016-georgia-tech-advanced-statistical-profile. They're normalized, so our TOP and the number of drives should be factored out.
Std. Downs Run Rate
Ours = 57.0% -> #92 National Average = 60.2%
Pass. Downs Run Rate
Ours = 38.0%-> #29 National Average = 34.5%
Overall Havoc Rate
Ours = 11.9% -> #123 National Average = 15.8%
DL Havoc Rate
Ours = 4.4% -> #71 National Average = 5.0% (slightly below average)
LB Havoc Rate
Ours = 2.1% -> #123 National Average = 4.3% (less than half of the national average)
DB Havoc Rate
Ours = 5.3% -> #101 National Average = 6.4% (low, especially for a fairly talented secondary)
PD to INC
Ours = 26.2% -> #121 National Average = 33.1% (we intercept or break up fewer passes on average)

Couple of issues there. Our DL was the best part of our defense for havoc (tackles for loss, forced fumbles, passes broken up or intercepted...). Our LB corps was the weakest. I would think our LBs would be a lot closer to average.
FWIW, Brant Mitchell was just about as statistically strong as PJ.

Can we really keep saying "if we had a better defensive line, we'd have better LB play?". Simmons and Freeman are solid ends. We haven't had first-team all-ACC at DT, but they're at least serviceable. There are other teams that have a linebacking corps that bring up the rest of the team. Shouldn't our LB play still be better than it is?

May not come as a shock that we were also #101 at kickoff returns.

Moral of the story?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Roof may not be the best strategist and schemer, but the class you guys are blowing your wads about is 100% all him. Don't think for a minute those Swilling boys would be here if it weren't for him. That you can take to the bank.