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GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
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831
Juanyeh and Tariq both publicly expressed love and respect for their former DB coaches when we did not renew their coaching contracts. Juanyeh and Tariq at least thought their coaches were telling them the right things to do.

I don’t know what was going on in the defense, but Tillman has all the DBs now. If the DBs don’t get coached correctly this year, we at least know it’s a different coach doing it.
I’m pretty close to the Thomas family. I can tell you that they believe the defensive coaches who were fired were scapegoated. If that wasn’t obvious already from their social media vibe.
 

GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
831
i know juanyeh has actually defended collins a few times on social media after the season as well so maybe they just want to say positive things about everyone and not burn bridges which is respectable.
Yep. And everything he put out there, especially in a turbulent time like that within the most crucial 3-month span of his life, was part of an interview process.

NFL Scout: “This kid was screwed by his coaches and is STILL thanking them and saying how much he loves them? High character guy, check.”
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
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7,249
i really want to know what the deal with that was. every db put up awful film last season and this was true top to bottom. out of position constantly, getting burned bad, and we had coverage lapses leaving guys out on the field with enough land to farm on. i know juanyeh has actually defended collins a few times on social media after the season as well so maybe they just want to say positive things about everyone and not burn bridges which is respectable.
I am baffled by some of the things I saw on defense.
Some might say I’m easily baffled, but it looked like 2 or 3 different defenses were simultaneously called sometimes

I have guesses, though
 

JacketFan137

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,072
I’m pretty close to the Thomas family. I can tell you that they believe the defensive coaches who were fired were scapegoated. If that wasn’t obvious already from their social media vibe.
i can understand how they might love the coach as a person and feel like he’s become family over the last few years but i don’t think it was just scapegoating. bottom line is the secondary was the worst performing unit on the field. corners, safeties all of them were bad. it wasn’t even just bad play selection cause there was issues with man and zone from what i saw.
 

GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
831
i can understand how they might love the coach as a person and feel like he’s become family over the last few years but i don’t think it was just scapegoating. bottom line is the secondary was the worst performing unit on the field. corners, safeties all of them were bad. it wasn’t even just bad play selection cause there was issues with man and zone from what i saw.
Oh for sure. When close personal relationships are in play, I take what players and their families say with a grain of salt. Also because it’s rarely ever taking accountability for their own play (not talking Juanyeh or Azende specifically). I guess my point was, the DBs who left don’t think we cut all the fat. Which I’m hopeful won’t matter with Tillman taking charge.

Also just to be clear, Juanyeh would NEVER say a bad word about anyone publicly. Not in his nature. Even if he wasn’t an NFL prospect/going through the interview process. He wasn’t saying that stuff about CGC for the hell of it, it’s genuine.
 

GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
831
You're blaming Paul for a lack of depth in year three of Geoff Collins.
I really do think that building OL depth takes years, especially starting from ground zero. It’s not like QB, RB, Free Safety where depth = 2 or 3 solid contributors plus healthy walk-ons/freshman. You literally need like
10+ potential contributors. Even if we had great OL recruits under CGC, wouldn’t they still only be Redshirt Sophomores this upcoming season?

It’s insane to me that we can’t all agree that three things are true:

1.) Our Power 5-quality OL cupboard was bare when CGC took over.
2.) CGC hasn’t done a good job recruiting OL in his first two classes.
3.) CBK hasn’t done a good job coaching OL in his first three seasons.

Seriously, why can’t we all agree on the above? Arguing against any one of the three point above is asinine to me.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
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I don’t need to flex to make a point on GTSwarm lol. I’ve been here way too long for that.



That’s fair, I can see why my phrasing confused you. My point was that we had safeties with great measurables, they got undercoached, and they lost $ because of it. Now, Juanyeh and Tariq are having to earn their chance purely based off their athletic abilities/measurables. Not their tape. Their tape cost them $.

If you think other college coaches won’t use that against us in recruiting, you’re delusional. “Go to GT with NFL measurables, work your *** off, and barely get a shot because you won’t be coached well.” Whether fair or not, it’ll happen.
Didn't their coach get fired? Weren't there discussions about the DB's not following the signaled plays? I don't know if JT or TC were involved with that, but if they were, it's easy to see how they didn't perform well. The whole defense didn't perform as a synchronous group. It seemed that JT was a step slow in coverage. But, it also seemed the same thing with ZW and Swilling. Both of those guys were really quick, so there was something going on. JT is a long strider, so he covers a lot of ground. Just seemed like there were a ton of mis-reads last year (different than from the previous 2 years from that group).

Edit: There was a lot of additional conversation, obviously, after the post I responded to.
 
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GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
831
Didn't their coach get fired? Weren't there discussions about the DB's not following the signaled plays? I don't know if JT or TC were involved with that, but if they were, it's easy to see how they didn't perform well. The whole defense didn't perform as a synchronous group. It seemed that JT was a step slow in coverage. But, it also seemed the same thing with ZW and Swilling. Both of those guys were really quick, so there was something going on. JT is a long strider, so he covers a lot of ground. Just seemed like there were a ton of mis-reads last year (different than from the previous 2 years from that group).
It seemed to me more of the same from Year 2 to Year 3. Year 1, JT and TC were great in coverage. But if DBs aren’t following signaled plays then yes, that’s how and why coaches get fired. When multiple players in the same position group don’t believe their coaches are putting them in the best position to succeed, that’s a coaching problem. And one that goes beyond the position coach. CGC and Thacker own that too.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,582
I am baffled by some of the things I saw on defense.
Some might say I’m easily baffled, but it looked like 2 or 3 different defenses were simultaneously called sometimes

I have guesses, though
Not an attempt to say that the players had no blame: In the Northern Illinois game, there were a few plays where the entire defense was still looking at the sideline for the play call AFTER the offense snapped the ball. At the ND game, there were at least a couple of plays where the DBs were still looking at the sideline for the play call AFTER the ball was snapped, and there were several plays where they were still looking at the sideline thru motions and almost until the ball was snapped. Those kinds of issues lasted all season. (I can't remember at the mutt game because I was so disgusted with everything about that game: players, coaches, and fans)

I am not knowledgable enough, and don't have enough full field film, to analyze and detail what was due to undersize/under-athlete players, what was due to play calling, and what was due to the absolute confusion among the defense. However, seeing all of the confusion with substituions and play calling pre-snap, I am certain that the coaching staff didn't put the players into a position to be successful.
 

JacketFan137

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,072
I really do think that building OL depth takes years, especially starting from ground zero. It’s not like QB, RB, Free Safety where depth = 2 or 3 solid contributors plus healthy walk-ons/freshman. You literally need like
10+ potential contributors. Even if we had great OL recruits under CGC, wouldn’t they still only be Redshirt Sophomores this upcoming season?

It’s insane to me that we can’t all agree that three things are true:

1.) Our Power 5-quality OL cupboard was bare when CGC took over.
2.) CGC hasn’t done a good job recruiting OL in his first two classes.
3.) CBK hasn’t done a good job coaching OL in his first three seasons.

Seriously, why can’t we all agree on the above? Arguing against any one of the three point above is asinine to me.
some people don’t want to blame paul for literally anything related to collins. mostly much older fans that either choose to ignore how much of a task the transition was or that very obviously want to return to the option. saying collins inherited a roster with issues is seen as a slight to paul johnson and they really don’t like that.

collins has had two recruiting classes of his own on campus and a few transfers. the third class just got here. somehow these guys expected it all to happen over night but i think a lot of that is due to johnson taking over and seeing success immediately and they don’t understand why it can’t happen the same way
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,701
I really do think that building OL depth takes years, especially starting from ground zero. It’s not like QB, RB, Free Safety where depth = 2 or 3 solid contributors plus healthy walk-ons/freshman. You literally need like
10+ potential contributors. Even if we had great OL recruits under CGC, wouldn’t they still only be Redshirt Sophomores this upcoming season?

It’s insane to me that we can’t all agree that three things are true:

1.) Our Power 5-quality OL cupboard was bare when CGC took over.
2.) CGC hasn’t done a good job recruiting OL in his first two classes.
3.) CBK hasn’t done a good job coaching OL in his first three seasons.

Seriously, why can’t we all agree on the above? Arguing against any one of the three point above is asinine to me.
I don't think the OL cupboard was exactly bare, but no, it wasn't anything to write home about. The best one we had transferred out.
But that doesn't negate the fact that what we had was neither augmented through recruiting nor coached up. In fact, I'd have to say from the looks of it, it was coached down.
The atrocious coaching has been general across the board, and it's evident in the sloppy play at most every position except receiver, IMHO.
Due to the poor coaching, this team was far less than the sum of its parts, both the inherited parts and the recruited parts. Surely we can agree on that.
I'm talking about much more than just the offensive line. Geoff's apologists like to focus on that. It's their way of deflecting from all the rest of the mess.
Hoping for better this year. Wish we'd replaced Key and Thacker.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,341
some people don’t want to blame paul for literally anything related to collins. mostly much older fans that either choose to ignore how much of a task the transition was or that very obviously want to return to the option. saying collins inherited a roster with issues is seen as a slight to paul johnson and they really don’t like that.

collins has had two recruiting classes of his own on campus and a few transfers. the third class just got here. somehow these guys expected it all to happen over night but i think a lot of that is due to johnson taking over and seeing success immediately and they don’t understand why it can’t happen the same way
I would say the 18 transfers we took from 2019-2021 is more than a few. If we are going to keep excusing the recruiting because of transfers we are getting then they need to start doing something.
 

JacketFan137

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Messages
1,072
I would say the 18 transfers we took from 2019-2021 is more than a few. If we are going to keep excusing the recruiting because of transfers we are getting then they need to start doing something.
6 lineman and a few have had injury issues that kept them off the field. i’m sure that’s an excuse or something too
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,701
some people don’t want to blame paul for literally anything related to collins. mostly much older fans that either choose to ignore how much of a task the transition was or that very obviously want to return to the option. saying collins inherited a roster with issues is seen as a slight to paul johnson and they really don’t like that.

collins has had two recruiting classes of his own on campus and a few transfers. the third class just got here. somehow these guys expected it all to happen over night but i think a lot of that is due to johnson taking over and seeing success immediately and they don’t understand why it can’t happen the same way
Just about nobody expected success right away, but we're entering year 4, now and the excuse train just keeps on chugging along.
 

GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
831
I don't think the OL cupboard was exactly bare, but no, it wasn't anything to write home about. The best one we had transferred out.
But that doesn't negate the fact that what we had was neither augmented through recruiting nor coached up. In fact, I'd have to say from the looks of it, it was coached down.
The atrocious coaching has been general across the board, and it's evident in the sloppy play at most every position except receiver, IMHO.
Due to the poor coaching, this team was far less than the sum of its parts, both the inherited parts and the recruited parts. Surely we can agree on that.
I'm talking about much more than just the offensive line. Geoff's apologists like to focus on that. It's their way of deflecting from all the rest of the mess.
Hoping for better this year. Wish we'd replaced Key and Thacker.
I don’t disagree. Only thing I’d somewhat disagree on is our RBs have been the best (i.e. non-sloppy) position group, but that could be from the talent more than the coaching. WRs haven’t been world beaters but I think we do have a lot of talent there. And I don’t think they’ve necessarily been sloppy or anything.

For me, it’s the OL, LBs, and DBs that have been especially poorly coached (QBs it’s harder to tell imo). And what’s even more concerning is CBK and CGC are supposed to be OL/DB guys. I mean, we had a DB with potential NFL future choosing to not be coached by CGC despite his resume and transferring out (Wesley Walker). I can’t deny that’s scary.
 
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WreckinGT

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2,341
6 lineman and a few have had injury issues that kept them off the field. i’m sure that’s an excuse or something too
No, that doesn't really excuse it either. You would think bringing in guys who started many games for SEC programs would help our OL. It didn't really. Now we are going into another year and we are expecting 3-4 new transfers who haven't played for us or played much at all to be our best offensive linemen. That doesn't seem like a problem to you?
 

JacketFan137

Helluva Engineer
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1,072
No, that doesn't really excuse it either. You would think bringing in guys who started many games for SEC programs would help our OL. It didn't really. Now we are going into another year and we are expecting 3-4 new transfers who haven't played for us or played much at all to be our best offensive linemen. That doesn't seem like a problem to you?
it’s a problem we haven’t been better for sure. i don’t think it’s a problem whether the starters are transfers or not because that’s the state of college football
 

GaTech4ever

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
831
it’s a problem we haven’t been better for sure. i don’t think it’s a problem whether the starters are transfers or not because that’s the state of college football
Yeah I mean it’s not like Ryan Johnson was a world beater at Tennessee and would have been had he transferred somewhere else. He pretty much was the same player here and there. You just never know.

In an opposite but relevant situation, most Oregon State fans are probably thinking “who cares that we got GT’s 3rd string RB” when we know Jamious Griffin is better than just that. Again, you just don’t know what you’re getting until they’re here.
 
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