Two examples of horrible coaching yesterday.

Sheboygan

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I was only able to watch the replay yesterday, but two defensive play calls cost us all the momentum, and possibly the game:
1) At the start of the 4th quarter, BC at our 29 yard line , 3rd and 1 . We run a goal line defense- with all 11 defenders within 3-4 yards of the LOS. Castellanos rolls right, like a run, TE on that side runs a route to spring open behind everybody, catches pass to the 2. TD next play. 24-23 BC. No second level D
2) 9:25 mark of 4th quarter , BC at our 43 yard line. 4th and 1. We run a goal line defense-again. Castellanos - a great runner- btw, finds a crease, breaks through the line and sprints untouched to the goal line. No 2nd level D.
I am no defensive co-ordinator, but "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". I see running a goal line defense on the goal line , where you have 10-15 yards behind you, but on your own 29 and 43 yard lines ???
 

Northeast Stinger

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I was only able to watch the replay yesterday, but two defensive play calls cost us all the momentum, and possibly the game:
1) At the start of the 4th quarter, BC at our 29 yard line , 3rd and 1 . We run a goal line defense- with all 11 defenders within 3-4 yards of the LOS. Castellanos rolls right, like a run, TE on that side runs a route to spring open behind everybody, catches pass to the 2. TD next play. 24-23 BC. No second level D
2) 9:25 mark of 4th quarter , BC at our 43 yard line. 4th and 1. We run a goal line defense-again. Castellanos - a great runner- btw, finds a crease, breaks through the line and sprints untouched to the goal line. No 2nd level D.
I am no defensive co-ordinator, but "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". I see running a goal line defense on the goal line , where you have 10-15 yards behind you, but on your own 29 and 43 yard lines ???
It happens. You put everyone on or near the line because you absolutely need a stop and this is the risk.

I had my heart broken as a young child. One of Bobby Dodd’s best teams was playing in the Orange Bowl against Florida. Tech had momentum and just needed to stop Spurier on a 3rd and long play. We brought everyone up close and blitzed. Spurier handed it off to Larry Smith who went 66 yards untouched for a TD.

Tech never recovered from the shock and lost the game.
 

bobongo

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It happens. You put everyone on or near the line because you absolutely need a stop and this is the risk.

I had my heart broken as a young child. One of Bobby Dodd’s best teams was playing in the Orange Bowl against Florida. Tech had momentum and just needed to stop Spurier on a 3rd and long play. We brought everyone up close and blitzed. Spurier handed it off to Larry Smith who went 66 yards untouched for a TD.

Tech never recovered from the shock and lost the game.
Yeah, it's not like everything you try is going to work. Maybe we needed a stop and took our best shot at doing so on third and fourth down. It just didn't work, but it could have. I've seen oodles of examples of blitzes on third down that worked great. We're just not executing up front. Everything we try that doesn't work is not an example of bad coaching.
 

leatherneckjacket

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I was only able to watch the replay yesterday, but two defensive play calls cost us all the momentum, and possibly the game:
1) At the start of the 4th quarter, BC at our 29 yard line , 3rd and 1 . We run a goal line defense- with all 11 defenders within 3-4 yards of the LOS. Castellanos rolls right, like a run, TE on that side runs a route to spring open behind everybody, catches pass to the 2. TD next play. 24-23 BC. No second level D
2) 9:25 mark of 4th quarter , BC at our 43 yard line. 4th and 1. We run a goal line defense-again. Castellanos - a great runner- btw, finds a crease, breaks through the line and sprints untouched to the goal line. No 2nd level D.
I am no defensive co-ordinator, but "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". I see running a goal line defense on the goal line , where you have 10-15 yards behind you, but on your own 29 and 43 yard lines ???
There were only 10 players on the field on the 3rd and 1 to start the 4th quarter.

On the 4th and 1 later in the 4th, three defenders flowed to the same gap. If one of them flows to the other gap, we stop Castellanos.

Not sure either was a bad play call. The first was screw up on the personnel package. The other was an execution issue.
 

takethepoints

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Spurier handed it off to Larry Smith who went 66 yards untouched for a TD.

Tech never recovered from the shock and lost the game.
Smith's teammates called him "That Thing". 6'3", 225, probably around a 4.6 40. We had something like him when David Sims played for us, though Sims was 6'4".

I played on a team when I was a frosh that had a Smith clone. Bill was 6' 3", 220 and ran the 100 in 10.4. We lost once. Oth, Bill had a heart murmur. We knew when to tell the coaches to take him out because we could hear it in the huddle.
 

Sheboygan

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There were only 10 players on the field on the 3rd and 1 to start the 4th quarter.

On the 4th and 1 later in the 4th, three defenders flowed to the same gap. If one of them flows to the other gap, we stop Castellanos.

Not sure either was a bad play call. The first was screw up on the personnel package. The other was an execution issue.
The announcers kept calling it a "goal line" defense, and I thought that might not have been a correct call in that part of the field. With such a mobile QB as Castellanos, I thought a spy for him would have been called for. Maybe there was one but with everyone bunched at the line, he got screened out of the play. In hindsight, I would have kept a safety back about 10 yards to move with the QB and maybe make a TD saving tackle. Just my 2 cents. On the pass play, that was a VERY good call by BC, but I would have kept a safety back to just watch for a TE/WR breaking out. In both instances, you might give up the first down, but you give yourself a chance to possibly get a stop later or only give up a FG.
 

leatherneckjacket

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The announcers kept calling it a "goal line" defense, and I thought that might not have been a correct call in that part of the field. With such a mobile QB as Castellanos, I thought a spy for him would have been called for. Maybe there was one but with everyone bunched at the line, he got screened out of the play. In hindsight, I would have kept a safety back about 10 yards to move with the QB and maybe make a TD saving tackle. Just my 2 cents. On the pass play, that was a VERY good call by BC, but I would have kept a safety back to just watch for a TE/WR breaking out. In both instances, you might give up the first down, but you give yourself a chance to possibly get a stop later or only give up a FG.
There were only ten players on the field for the first play, so who knows what the defensive call was.

We were in the right defensive play for the 4th and 1. We just executed poorly as three players attacked one gap and none attacked the other gap.
 

GaTech4ever

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What about the fact that we’re not playing one of our best offensive players in Dontae Smith? And Key has now gotten standoffish multiple times when asked about it in press conferences and is making it clear health isn’t an issue. Something smells.
 

ThatGuy

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What about the fact that we’re not playing one of our best offensive players in Dontae Smith? And Key has now gotten standoffish multiple times when asked about it in press conferences and is making it clear health isn’t an issue. Something smells.
The coaches are judged foremost on one thing: winning.

As much as I appreciate what Dontae was able to do in the past, if they haven't put someone in the game, I trust that the coaches have a good reason for it: they think that the other players higher on the depth chart give them a better chance to win.

I'm also aware that Dontae Smith, while a good player, is also not perfect. In particular, his lack of pass blocking often caused offensive plays to blow up. I have no inside knowledge into whether that has anything to do with his position on the depth chart, but just saying - "one of our best offensive players" from the past few years may have an Achilles heel that is even worse for our offense than not having him on the field.

Again, no inside knowledge, so speculation aside I revert to my first statement. I trust that if the coaches think he'll give the best shot for them to win, they'll put him in.
 

Northeast Stinger

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What about the fact that we’re not playing one of our best offensive players in Dontae Smith? And Key has now gotten standoffish multiple times when asked about it in press conferences and is making it clear health isn’t an issue. Something smells.
Puzzling about Dontae to be sure. But it is equally puzzling to automatically jump to the conclusion that a coach is simply overlooking a star player sitting right in front of him.

As with many mysteries, it will one day be revealed.
 

slugboy

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What about the fact that we’re not playing one of our best offensive players in Dontae Smith? And Key has now gotten standoffish multiple times when asked about it in press conferences and is making it clear health isn’t an issue. Something smells.
there are only so many theories about why some players don’t get playing time
  1. HC is mad at a player and is intentionally sabotaging our games because of it
  2. Player isn’t playing as well as the other guys and fell down the depth chart but the coach doesn’t want to throw him under the bus
  3. The coaches are confused by what they see every day, but we have a better read from just seeing the players on Saturdays
  4. The player has been asked to do some things, and isn’t doing them, so they aren’t playing
  5. Coaches play their favorites
I would put my bet on (2)
 

GaTech4ever

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Puzzling about Dontae to be sure. But it is equally puzzling to automatically jump to the conclusion that a coach is simply overlooking a star player sitting right in front of him.

As with many mysteries, it will one day be revealed.
I didn’t automatically jump. I waited until I saw Key’s reaction to being asked about it.
 

GaTech4ever

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there are only so many theories about why some players don’t get playing time
  1. HC is mad at a player and is intentionally sabotaging our games because of it
  2. Player isn’t playing as well as the other guys and fell down the depth chart but the coach doesn’t want to throw him under the bus
  3. The coaches are confused by what they see every day, but we have a better read from just seeing the players on Saturdays
  4. The player has been asked to do some things, and isn’t doing them, so they aren’t playing
  5. Coaches play their favorites
I would put my bet on (2)
I have a very hard time believing #2 when I’ve seen #0 fumble consistently, miss his holes, and have issues in pass blocking. Just being honest
 

GaTech4ever

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The coaches are judged foremost on one thing: winning.

As much as I appreciate what Dontae was able to do in the past, if they haven't put someone in the game, I trust that the coaches have a good reason for it: they think that the other players higher on the depth chart give them a better chance to win.

I'm also aware that Dontae Smith, while a good player, is also not perfect. In particular, his lack of pass blocking often caused offensive plays to blow up. I have no inside knowledge into whether that has anything to do with his position on the depth chart, but just saying - "one of our best offensive players" from the past few years may have an Achilles heel that is even worse for our offense than not having him on the field.

Again, no inside knowledge, so speculation aside I revert to my first statement. I trust that if the coaches think he'll give the best shot for them to win, they'll put him in.
The coaches this season are actually bringing Dontae in to pass block on 11% of his snaps, 11% of Cooley’s snaps, and 11% of Haynes’ snaps. To me, that’s consistent and means we’re not really bringing running backs in based on their pass blocking ability. Either way, Dontae’s graded significantly higher than them at pass blocking this season (albeit small sample) and looks better in the eye test. Has your speculation changed?

The other thing is, even if Dontae was marginally worse at pass blocking, we only ask our running back to block 11% of all offensive snaps. Is that enough to bury him on the depth chart?
 
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Northeast Stinger

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there are only so many theories about why some players don’t get playing time
  1. HC is mad at a player and is intentionally sabotaging our games because of it
  2. Player isn’t playing as well as the other guys and fell down the depth chart but the coach doesn’t want to throw him under the bus
  3. The coaches are confused by what they see every day, but we have a better read from just seeing the players on Saturdays
  4. The player has been asked to do some things, and isn’t doing them, so they aren’t playing
  5. Coaches play their favorites
I would put my bet on (2)
Number 4 is also a possibility but agree that 2 is the most likely.

I agree with others that Dontae appears to be the hardest runner of the group and more likely to carry a tackler an extra couple of yards. But our offensive system may be asking him to do some things that don’t come naturally to him. Though Cooley in particular seems to dance around too long without hitting the hole sooner, he and Haynes seem to peel off their best runs when the defense flows hard to an area and then they cut back. It requires a little hesitation to let the plays set up the cut back.

But I’m not a coach and just guessing.
 
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