Toughest ACC non-conference schedule: GT of course

Backstreetbuzz

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At the end of the day, for other than a few GT folks, it you record that determines respect. If we go 8-4 against a complete patsy schedule, the nation will salute GT. If we go 4-8 against all top 25 teams, the nation will say we suck. Nobody digs down into the weeds.
 

awbuzz

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Beating UGA or Clemson and some mix of whoever is good out of FSU/VT/Miami/Pitt/ND/whoever on the schedule would be more than enough for GT to finish with a positive national impression. A loss to Ole Miss instead of a win over Samford isn’t helping that season’s reputation.

Or losing to UGA and Clemson but winning most of the rest + Samford gets you better press than adding in a loss to Ole Miss.
Let me add DON'T LOSE TO CITADEL... (or Samford, SC St., etc.)
 

Vespidae

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At the end of the day, for other than a few GT folks, it you record that determines respect. If we go 8-4 against a complete patsy schedule, the nation will salute GT. If we go 4-8 against all top 25 teams, the nation will say we suck. Nobody digs down into the weeds.
Doesn’t it depend on your strategy? Unless ADJB has changed it, the goal for GT Football is to create a path to the League for those who want that.

How many were drafted last year? One?

The NFL doesn’t draft based on wins. They draft based on talent and matchups. They draft based on how well those players did against the best players they faced, not the patsy’s the team beat. Bill Belichick once quipped that he would draft players who never played if they simply practiced against the best and were healthy.

In other words, if you want GT to be relevant… you have to play and beat good teams. And good teams have talent.

If ADJB changes the schedule with the intention to weaken it, then our strategy has changed.
 

roadkill

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Doesn’t it depend on your strategy? Unless ADJB has changed it, the goal for GT Football is to create a path to the League for those who want that.

How many were drafted last year? One?

The NFL doesn’t draft based on wins. They draft based on talent and matchups. They draft based on how well those players did against the best players they faced, not the patsy’s the team beat. Bill Belichick once quipped that he would draft players who never played if they simply practiced against the best and were healthy.

In other words, if you want GT to be relevant… you have to play and beat good teams. And good teams have talent.

If ADJB changes the schedule with the intention to weaken it, then our strategy has changed.
Ok, a new angle supporting your position that perhaps has an element of truth. It explains why Duke has as many players in the NFL as GT. Oh wait.

BTW, Tulane has more.

As I said previously, I have no issue with a tough schedule once we pull ourselves out of the deep ditch we’ve been in. But getting there while carrying the additional burden of a tough OOC schedule is likely to take longer.
 

bobongo

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At the end of the day, for other than a few GT folks, it you record that determines respect. If we go 8-4 against a complete patsy schedule, the nation will salute GT. If we go 4-8 against all top 25 teams, the nation will say we suck. Nobody digs down into the weeds.
If Tech went 8-4 against a complete patsy schedule, we wouldn't end up in the top 25, nor would we deserve to be. And if we had a complete patsy schedule, we wouldn't even be any longer in the ACC.
The choice isn't between all patsies and all top-25s. We have an ACC schedule that includes Clemson every year, and an OOC schedule that includes Ugag. The question is what we do with the other three OOC games. I think the current balance of one P-5, one G-5, and one patsy (like the Citadel ;-) is reasonable and appropriate. Our overall schedule is one that an 8-4 record would indicate a top-25 finish. If I thought Tech couldn't aspire any more to beat anyone other than patsies, I would honestly just lose interest.

The fact is, nobody is going to care that we beat South Carolina State this year, but they will certainly take notice if the Jackets knock off Ole Miss.
 

bobongo

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Ok, a new angle supporting your position that perhaps has an element of truth. It explains why Duke has as many players in the NFL as GT. Oh wait.

BTW, Tulane has more.

As I said previously, I have no issue with a tough schedule once we pull ourselves out of the deep ditch we’ve been in. But getting there while carrying the additional burden of a tough OOC schedule is likely to take longer.
Schedules are made at least ten years in advance. Actually, playing tough opponents will enable us to get out of the ditch quicker, it seems to me.
 

yeti92

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For comparison, uga's OOC slate is UT-Martin, Ball State, UAB, and us.

imo, we should be maximizing # of wins over SoS, but there is obviously a financial aspect that has to be considered. Bad teams generally bring fewer fans, Tech fans are less likely to show up for those games, and we have to pay them to play us. How much does an extra guaranteed win cost us, and can we afford it? If we get that extra win and it gets us bowl eligible, we can pick up a 2nd extra win. 7-6 does a lot more for us than 5-7, the question is how much more?
 

Lotta Booze

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Doesn’t it depend on your strategy? Unless ADJB has changed it, the goal for GT Football is to create a path to the League for those who want that.

How many were drafted last year? One?

The NFL doesn’t draft based on wins. They draft based on talent and matchups. They draft based on how well those players did against the best players they faced, not the patsy’s the team beat. Bill Belichick once quipped that he would draft players who never played if they simply practiced against the best and were healthy.

In other words, if you want GT to be relevant… you have to play and beat good teams. And good teams have talent.

If ADJB changes the schedule with the intention to weaken it, then our strategy has changed.
While I'm sure matchups factors in to the decision to an extent, talent is going to outweigh it by a lot. Otherwise players from North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Western Kentucky wouldn't be getting drafted in the first 3 rounds of the NFL Draft.
 

Vespidae

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For comparison, uga's OOC slate is UT-Martin, Ball State, UAB, and us.

imo, we should be maximizing # of wins over SoS, but there is obviously a financial aspect that has to be considered. Bad teams generally bring fewer fans, Tech fans are less likely to show up for those games, and we have to pay them to play us. How much does an extra guaranteed win cost us, and can we afford it? If we get that extra win and it gets us bowl eligible, we can pick up a 2nd extra win. 7-6 does a lot more for us than 5-7, the question is how much more?
Good point. Here’s a breakdown of NFL draft picks by conference. You can’t recruit great players and offer them a possible path to the League if you don’t play those who do. For all the discussion of OOC only, the ACC is weak in terms of talent.

And with the portal, you can’t develop it. You don’t have time.

I think it’s entirely possible to play and possibly lose against better opponents and compete very well within conference.

SEC65
Big Ten48
Big 1225
Pac-1225
ACC21
 

Lotta Booze

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Schedules are made at least ten years in advance. Actually, playing tough opponents will enable us to get out of the ditch quicker, it seems to me.
The scheduling so far in advance is a challenge. I think ideally we'd have an easier schedule these next couple years just to get to consecutive bowl games and up the toughness from there. But as you said, with scheduling being made so far in advance that isn't possible. I do think there is a tangible benefit to going to a bowl game ($$, morale, additional practices, recruiting, exposure)

Our schedule, with uga and Clemson and ND/FSU rotationally, already has ample opportunities for us to prove we're good against tough teams I don't think we need to go play some murderer's row OOC in addition. Just look at the last time GT was highly ranked and relevant, 2014. Our OOC that year was Wofford, Tulane, GA Southern and at the end of the year nobody cared that we honestly struggled against Wofford and Tulane in the first halves and squeaked out a win against GA Southern. We had a good record overall, beat some good teams and showed out in the Orange Bowl.
 

roadkill

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Schedules are made at least ten years in advance. Actually, playing tough opponents will enable us to get out of the ditch quicker, it seems to me.
If I understood your point correctly (kind of like"iron sharpens iron"), it may be true. However, by "ditch", I mean our W/L record and getting it to bowl eligibility. I don't think we will get there quicker by playing teams we have let's say, a 15% chance of beating.
 

CEB

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If Tech went 8-4 against a complete patsy schedule, we wouldn't end up in the top 25, nor would we deserve to be. And if we had a complete patsy schedule, we wouldn't even be any longer in the ACC.
The choice isn't between all patsies and all top-25s. We have an ACC schedule that includes Clemson every year, and an OOC schedule that includes Ugag. The question is what we do with the other three OOC games. I think the current balance of one P-5, one G-5, and one patsy (like the Citadel ;-) is reasonable and appropriate. Our overall schedule is one that an 8-4 record would indicate a top-25 finish. If I thought Tech couldn't aspire any more to beat anyone other than patsies, I would honestly just lose interest.

The fact is, nobody is going to care that we beat South Carolina State this year, but they will certainly take notice if the Jackets knock off Ole Miss.
But the real answer is to figure out how to get ND on board and go to 9 conference games.
 

UgaBlows

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Ok, a new angle supporting your position that perhaps has an element of truth. It explains why Duke has as many players in the NFL as GT. Oh wait.

BTW, Tulane has more.

As I said previously, I have no issue with a tough schedule once we pull ourselves out of the deep ditch we’ve been in. But getting there while carrying the additional burden of a tough OOC schedule is likely to take longer.
The problem with getting your teeth kicked in from a hard schedule year after year (especially as your team is trying to rebuild) is that it eventually affects your recruiting and retention of starters. Coaches with a losing record will not be able to recruit eventually and then they get fired and you start all over. Playing Clemson and UGA every year is brutal enough, we need to give ourselves a better chance to have a winning record and make a bowl for a few years. Like someone said above, nobody gives AF if your losing record is against really good teams, they just see a loser.
 

roadkill

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Good point. Here’s a breakdown of NFL draft picks by conference. You can’t recruit great players and offer them a possible path to the League if you don’t play those who do. For all the discussion of OOC only, the ACC is weak in terms of talent.

And with the portal, you can’t develop it. You don’t have time.

I think it’s entirely possible to play and possibly lose against better opponents and compete very well within conference.

SEC65
Big Ten48
Big 1225
Pac-1225
ACC21
Bold statement, but your chart doesn't necessarily support it. It does support the notion that talent, along with measurables, is what gets players drafted. Check out which teams rank high in talent composite.
Look at GTs own record vs. draft picks. You pointed out our recent shortcomings there. Interesting that our draft picks have declined over the last few years despite an apparent increase in talent. Also interesting that our W/L record became worse. Correlation? I recognize that the data set is small, but I'm still looking for evidence to support your point, aside from an isolated quote from Belichek.
 

UgaBlows

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If Tech went 8-4 against a complete patsy schedule, we wouldn't end up in the top 25, nor would we deserve to be. And if we had a complete patsy schedule, we wouldn't even be any longer in the ACC.
The choice isn't between all patsies and all top-25s. We have an ACC schedule that includes Clemson every year, and an OOC schedule that includes Ugag. The question is what we do with the other three OOC games. I think the current balance of one P-5, one G-5, and one patsy (like the Citadel ;-) is reasonable and appropriate. Our overall schedule is one that an 8-4 record would indicate a top-25 finish. If I thought Tech couldn't aspire any more to beat anyone other than patsies, I would honestly just lose interest.

The fact is, nobody is going to care that we beat South Carolina State this year, but they will certainly take notice if the Jackets knock off Ole Miss.
We will never have a patsy schedule with uga, clemson and the rest of a P5 conf schedule.
 

Vespidae

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Bold statement, but your chart doesn't necessarily support it. It does support the notion that talent, along with measurables, is what gets players drafted. Check out which teams rank high in talent composite.
Look at GTs own record vs. draft picks. You pointed out our recent shortcomings there. Interesting that our draft picks have declined over the last few years despite an apparent increase in talent. Also interesting that our W/L record became worse. Correlation? I recognize that the data set is small, but I'm still looking for evidence to support your point, aside from an isolated quote from Belichek.
Talent that isn’t tested is difficult to evaluate. It’s fine if you’re more into having a weak schedule but to me, that only sustains the impression that GT is irrelevant. Even more so when you lose to a patsy like the Citadel.

Fortunately, it’s ADJB’s decision…
 

bobongo

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If I understood your point correctly (kind of like"iron sharpens iron"), it may be true. However, by "ditch", I mean our W/L record and getting it to bowl eligibility. I don't think we will get there quicker by playing teams we have let's say, a 15% chance of beating.
We won't get to a bowl game quicker by playing a tough OOC schedule, but we will get to be a better team quicker for it and go to better bowl games down the road, IMO and we will have a better than 15% chance of beating them. Beyond that, beating up on patsies is boring and meaningless, and it doesn't stoke fan interest, bowl game or not. And fan interest is what we need. Ugag can get away with that, but Tech can't. We need to schedule tough opponents and beat them.
 

yeti92

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Good point. Here’s a breakdown of NFL draft picks by conference. You can’t recruit great players and offer them a possible path to the League if you don’t play those who do. For all the discussion of OOC only, the ACC is weak in terms of talent.

And with the portal, you can’t develop it. You don’t have time.

I think it’s entirely possible to play and possibly lose against better opponents and compete very well within conference.

SEC65
Big Ten48
Big 1225
Pac-1225
ACC21
For 2023, the ACC was 3rd.

SEC - 62
B1G - 55
ACC - 32
Big 12 - 30
Pac 12 - 27

In 2021, ACC had 42, vs the B1G with 44 and the SEC with 65. The ACC seems to go up and down, with some years pretty low and others we have quite a lot. 2015, 2017, 2018 we had the 2nd most draft picks to the SEC with 47, 43, and 45.
 

bobongo

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We will never have a patsy schedule with uga, clemson and the rest of a P5 conf schedule.
That's true. I was taking issue with a post that suggested we would be "saluted" if we went 8-4 against all patsies. Yes, the schools we are committed to play against ensure a fairly tough overall schedule even if we did schedule three patsies OOC otherwise, but I wouldn't want us to do that and think the schedule as it is going forward is about right.
 

UgaBlows

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That's true. I was taking issue with a post that suggested we would be "saluted" if we went 8-4 against all patsies. Yes, the schools we are committed to play against ensure a fairly tough overall schedule even if we did schedule three patsies OOC otherwise, but I wouldn't want us to do that and think the schedule as it is going forward is about right.
I just want some wins, and to keep recruiting momentum going. I really believe that if this coaching staff has winning seasons to point to that we will see a level of recruiting that we have never even dreamed of here and from there a high level of success
 
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