Top 5 Looking for in camp

[jgtengineer]

Tenutas D excelled in spite of it. Maybe his scheme was the "perfect fit" for our school. I dunno. Current Ds need to excel in spite of it also. But it's still a handicap many other programs don't have.

Tenutas d actual wasnt that complex he had exotic blitzes but they were more like called plays on offense. It is a large reason why his defenses had a feast or famine feel to them

 

[slugboy]

Making a block or reading a play isn't the same kind of brainpower that you use in physics--it's a lot faster and based on repetition. Being smarter might help you train better, but I think we still run with less practice hours than other schools.
Simplifying probably isn't that bad an idea for defense


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[alentrekin]

Maybe (no evidence) coordinators add more checks because the kids are "smart and can handle it" when they just don't have the reps to do it.

I had the hardest time getting one of our starting pitchers (who now has a PhD in physics) to use a count-based sign system that guys from JUCO introduced to me in summer ball. IMO, repetition under stress is the only way to be sure that 11 guys will understand the check.

 

[strong90]

Five things I'd like to see:
1) 1s and 2s solidified without dissenters, cliques, or team drama;
2) PK wows routinely;
3) Punter booms consistently;
4) one tr fresh on O;
5) one tr fresh on D.

 

[strong90]

Actually the players went to Roof and asked to make things simpler. They felt they weren't able to play fast with so many check downs etc. I do agree we should be able to get more exotic with blitz packages and stuff. I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to run some of the things VT does, and they do it with guys that aren't highly rated like the factories.

Pure speculation, but I think "simplify" is a misnomer and that the "bend-don't-break" scheme lies at the heart of this. "Don't break" requires a player to account for every possibility (e.g. if this, check this, then this, unless this or...) to achieve a single desired outcome: just don't give up a TD. It avoids risk by keeping everything in front of you and waiting on the play to develop; the real action occurs only after the ball crosses the LOS. It feels slow because you're always backing up and waiting on the other team to make something happen. I suspect the players hate that feeling more than I do. They want to play fast, attack, force the play, and be disruptive, not slowly moon-walk back to their own end-zone.
Just a hunch, but perhaps the "simplify-for-speed" request is really asking him to loosen the bend-don't-break constraints so they could play more aggressively.

 

[iceeater1969]

Pure speculation, but I think "simplify" is a misnomer and that the "bend-don't-break" scheme lies at the heart of this. "Don't break" requires a player to account for every possibility (e.g. if this, check this, then this, unless this or...) to achieve a single desired outcome: just don't give up a TD. It avoids risk by keeping everything in front of you and waiting on the play to develop; the real action occurs only after the ball crosses the LOS. It feels slow because you're always backing up and waiting on the other team to make something happen. I suspect the players hate that feeling more than I do. They want to play fast, attack, force the play, and be disruptive, not slowly moon-walk back to their own end-zone.
Just a hunch, but perhaps the "simplify-for-speed" request is really asking him to loosen the bend-don't-break constraints so they could play more aggressively.

It's not an either or situation.
I would prefer way way more gap rush or blitz etc plays CALLED BY COACH .
Our aggressive defense is pretty aeak. We are in the base dl defense with the lame MLB biltz into the pile as our aggressive defense. No disguise With 8 On line then drop back.


We need to dial up "just a little" more early in game With some better camouflage.

 

[InsideLB]

"Today's game" applies to every team. It makes no sense to use it to explain our poor D ranking relative to other tems, imo.

Ha, I most have done some poor writing because I intended my post to be about something else entirely:

Some fonts earlier in the thread were puzzled over a need to simplify the checks in the secondary. While the problem had probably been dogging us all year, UNC completely destroyed our defense and brought the issue to a head as evidenced by the secondary approaching Roof after that game and asking for simplicity so they could play faster. Subsequently the secondary played better the last four games.

People were wondering why Tech kids would have to have more simplicity since they are smarter than the average bear. I was pointing out that when teams go fast on offense you don't have time to do exotic stuff. I'm a little disappointed because, although we adjusted, we didn't have a simpler approach from the start. I mean, hurry up isn't new anymore and it seems we should have learned that lesson before last season.

 

[AE 87]

Ha, I most have done some poor writing because I intended my post to be about something else entirely:

Some fonts earlier in the thread were puzzled over a need to simplify the checks in the secondary. While the problem had probably been dogging us all year, UNC completely destroyed our defense and brought the issue to a head as evidenced by the secondary approaching Roof after that game and asking for simplicity so they could play faster. Subsequently the secondary played better the last four games.

People were wondering why Tech kids would have to have more simplicity since they are smarter than the average bear. I was pointing out that when teams go fast on offense you don't have time to do exotic stuff. I'm a little disappointed because, although we adjusted, we didn't have a simpler approach from the start. I mean, hurry up isn't new anymore and it seems we should have learned that lesson before last season.

You "most have."

Seriously, I see what you're saying now. I read it as explaining why our D in particular was struggling (and can't be more like vpi's as the post to which you replied asked). Thanks for clarifying.

 

[jacket_fan]

I do not have stats, but I recall during the end of the season last year, numerous blitzes. The problem being they were picked up and ineffective. Especially in the second half since the DL got no pressure.

Without a standout lineman that would require a double team, 5 and 6 man blitzes can be neutralized. Center gets the MLB and the back the OLB. I would like to see more speed rush from the DE position to create pressure. Seemed like Freeman was effective as a freshman, but has been slowed for some reason. I swear, it looked like the defensive linemen were holding the offensive linemen and just dancing.

Personally, if I could tell Roof, throw in a few more corner blitzes.

Hard to hold on third down when the opposing QB has time to wait for receivers to clear. That I believe is the biggest concern for me on D. (and the graduation of one of my favorite players PJ Daniels).

Develop at least one hard core pass rusher, get him in shape and send him. Cause havoc in the backfield.

(Since I retired I have too much time on my hands)

 

[UgaBlows]

Yeah i really am going to miss PJ Daniels too, he was really awesome in his last bowl game, 300 yards baby!

 

[AE 87]

Yeah i really am going to miss PJ Daniels too, he was really awesome in his last bowl game, 300 yards baby!

*Davis

 

[33jacket]

I do not have stats, but I recall during the end of the season last year, numerous blitzes. The problem being they were picked up and ineffective. Especially in the second half since the DL got no pressure.

Without a standout lineman that would require a double team, 5 and 6 man blitzes can be neutralized. Center gets the MLB and the back the OLB. I would like to see more speed rush from the DE position to create pressure. Seemed like Freeman was effective as a freshman, but has been slowed for some reason. I swear, it looked like the defensive linemen were holding the offensive linemen and just dancing.

Personally, if I could tell Roof, throw in a few more corner blitzes.

Hard to hold on third down when the opposing QB has time to wait for receivers to clear. That I believe is the biggest concern for me on D. (and the graduation of one of my favorite players PJ Daniels).

Develop at least one hard core pass rusher, get him in shape and send him. Cause havoc in the backfield.

(Since I retired I have too much time on my hands)

its not just blitzing from a certain position or to a certain gap. Roof does that. It doesn't work because its too simple and telegraphed. Todays zone line schemes are tailored to gap blitzing pickups. Running a LB and S to the exact same gap is simple, crowds the gap and so easy to pick up. He does that. Running two lB to both AGaps is the most basic blitz in football. We do that. Those two accounted for many of these so called blitzes. The one that bothers me the most is the S blitzing from 12 yards out. It never got to the QB. The ball was gone. It just takes too long. His blitz packages are very simple and don't work IMO by design.

what tenuta did so well, was design blitz packages that ATTACKED how you block the OL scheme itself. He did this by making OL assume they had an assignment in pass pro presnap, only to find out they needed to call a line slide post snap, didn't and one side became overloaded. He used good disguise up front to do this; with zone blitzes and more 50 and 70 tech than roof does, if at all.

What JT did, was trick, on a constant basis the style of line play. If you were a zone line team, he had specific packages for that and your tendencies. If you were a man block scheme he did other things as well. His style of packages he used here were not hard to learn, but effective in how he called them and planned them.

What Roof needs to have an effective D is the following:
1 - DT that has to take a double almost every snap because he is a load
2 DE's that are dynamic off the edge
1 MLB to plug that can get off blocks, as he will take the G or C a ton.
2 OLB that can hit the flats fast and hard, as by scheme these are left relatively open in is 1/4 1/4 /12 concepts...

If you look at our team, that is alot to ask for talent wise...in any one year for his system to work. Which is why it struggles here; his schemes are not good for tech IMO.

Then, he has a loose 2nd to 3rd level spacing...it can be tightened up by 3-4 yards....

Tenuta required the following:
1 DE that could stick and spill the run game...didn't need to be a dynamic pass rusher (for instance chungong woulda been fine in tenuta scheme)
2 DT that could 1 gap and didn't need double team capability...for me, alot easier to find at tech (gamble, gotsis of late, or today guys like cerge would be perfect)
1 DE that was a rusher/hybrid (sneezy woulda been perfect. Simmons would translate)
1 MLB that could take on GC
2 OLB that were cat quick rushers, only need to be 225 or 230 but quick...Often, a S that grows up can do this.

You see, above for me, we can find much easier....

 

[Lavoisier]

I do not have stats, but I recall during the end of the season last year, numerous blitzes. The problem being they were picked up and ineffective. Especially in the second half since the DL got no pressure.

Without a standout lineman that would require a double team, 5 and 6 man blitzes can be neutralized. Center gets the MLB and the back the OLB. I would like to see more speed rush from the DE position to create pressure. Seemed like Freeman was effective as a freshman, but has been slowed for some reason. I swear, it looked like the defensive linemen were holding the offensive linemen and just dancing.

Personally, if I could tell Roof, throw in a few more corner blitzes.

Hard to hold on third down when the opposing QB has time to wait for receivers to clear. That I believe is the biggest concern for me on D. (and the graduation of one of my favorite players PJ Daniels).

Develop at least one hard core pass rusher, get him in shape and send him. Cause havoc in the backfield.

(Since I retired I have too much time on my hands)

Roof has had some good lineman like Gotsis and Attouchu here so it isn't like he's working with chopped liver. His defenses, in my opinion, are bad because he can't teach fundamentals which was Groh's problem as well. Our LBs are constantly put of place and we don't wrap up. We miss tackles and arm tackle too much. Our DLine seems to lack pass rush moves unless they are a special talent like Sneezy. I mentioned in another thread Wake, BC, and Duke. Wake and BC had two of the hottest DCs in football the last few years before they were hired away. Duke always gives us trouble it seems. They don't do anything super crazy on defense (BC uses a true hybrid 5th CB/Safety/Linebacker but I feel that's more common in CFB these days) but they play sound fundamentals and try to avoid making mistakes. The LBs and CBs wrap up and stay in position and their DLines learn how to stay low and use some basic swim moves and leverages to create pressure. IMO, and I know how controversial this is, Coach Mac, Coach Pelton, and Coach Speed need to get a long hard look at to see if they're teaching our guys properly. Give me some fundamental defensive football and you can run any scheme you want.

 

[tech_wreck47]

its not just blitzing from a certain position or to a certain gap. Roof does that. It doesn't work because its too simple and telegraphed. Todays zone line schemes are tailored to gap blitzing pickups. Running a LB and S to the exact same gap is simple, crowds the gap and so easy to pick up. He does that. Running two lB to both AGaps is the most basic blitz in football. We do that. Those two accounted for many of these so called blitzes. The one that bothers me the most is the S blitzing from 12 yards out. It never got to the QB. The ball was gone. It just takes too long. His blitz packages are very simple and don't work IMO by design.

what tenuta did so well, was design blitz packages that ATTACKED how you block the OL scheme itself. He did this by making OL assume they had an assignment in pass pro presnap, only to find out they needed to call a line slide post snap, didn't and one side became overloaded. He used good disguise up front to do this; with zone blitzes and more 50 and 70 tech than roof does, if at all.

What JT did, was trick, on a constant basis the style of line play. If you were a zone line team, he had specific packages for that and your tendencies. If you were a man block scheme he did other things as well. His style of packages he used here were not hard to learn, but effective in how he called them and planned them.

What Roof needs to have an effective D is the following:
1 - DT that has to take a double almost every snap because he is a load
2 DE's that are dynamic off the edge
1 MLB to plug that can get off blocks, as he will take the G or C a ton.
2 OLB that can hit the flats fast and hard, as by scheme these are left relatively open in is 1/4 1/4 /12 concepts...

If you look at our team, that is alot to ask for talent wise...in any one year for his system to work. Which is why it struggles here; his schemes are not good for tech IMO.

Then, he has a loose 2nd to 3rd level spacing...it can be tightened up by 3-4 yards....

Tenuta required the following:
1 DE that could stick and spill the run game...didn't need to be a dynamic pass rusher (for instance chungong woulda been fine in tenuta scheme)
2 DT that could 1 gap and didn't need double team capability...for me, alot easier to find at tech (gamble, gotsis of late, or today guys like cerge would be perfect)
1 DE that was a rusher/hybrid (sneezy woulda been perfect. Simmons would translate)
1 MLB that could take on GC
2 OLB that were cat quick rushers, only need to be 225 or 230 but quick...Often, a S that grows up can do this.

You see, above for me, we can find much easier....

Great post. We need to get more "exotic" in our blitz packages. That alone would change the D dramatically imo. Even with the same coverages we run. The blitz that drives me crazy the most, because it happened so often with very little success was the 2 LB's blitzing the a gaps. I don't think you can get any simpler than that. What you posted saying what Roof needs out of his players to be successful is right on imo, but the things you listed looked like something Bama would have. I've said it before, if we had that level of talent we would be fine with what we do, but we don't. So the next best thing is to confuse the offense with our scheme. Kinda like our O, we run a system that maximizes the ability of the guys. We imo should be able to do that on D. I think of VT when I think of a D that maximizes what they have.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Roof has had some good lineman like Gotsis and Attouchu here so it isn't like he's working with chopped liver. His defenses, in my opinion, are bad because he can't teach fundamentals which was Groh's problem as well. Our LBs are constantly put of place and we don't wrap up. We miss tackles and arm tackle too much. Our DLine seems to lack pass rush moves unless they are a special talent like Sneezy. I mentioned in another thread Wake, BC, and Duke. Wake and BC had two of the hottest DCs in football the last few years before they were hired away. Duke always gives us trouble it seems. They don't do anything super crazy on defense (BC uses a true hybrid 5th CB/Safety/Linebacker but I feel that's more common in CFB these days) but they play sound fundamentals and try to avoid making mistakes. The LBs and CBs wrap up and stay in position and their DLines learn how to stay low and use some basic swim moves and leverages to create pressure. IMO, and I know how controversial this is, Coach Mac, Coach Pelton, and Coach Speed need to get a long hard look at to see if they're teaching our guys properly. Give me some fundamental defensive football and you can run any scheme you want.

I will have to disagree, not everyone has a skill set for every scheme, very few guys do. Look at when guys get drafted, they get drafted by teams based on their D scheme. Dan Quinn even talks about playing to the players strengths, so if you are playing in a scheme that a players not good at, you will be affected. It all starts with scheme and then tackling, etc. idc if you can tackle if you can't grasp the scheme. Your D will still get beat. I will agree that guys need to be in better position and need to tackle better, but that's not the main issue imo.

 

[Dustman]

I see a lot of mention of Lewis on this board but not much talk about Alexander. Last hear when Davis came out of games, Victor went in. Lewis backed up Alford. All spots are an open competition in camp, but I believe right now we are looking at Mitchell and Alexander in our base 4-2-5. I want to hear good things about Vic from the coaches. He played a lot of snaps last year but the only play I remember was a near sack.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Still wanna see Nate on the rocket to the house!

Will Cottrell become the new Snoddy?

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

My Top 5:
1. PASS RUSH. Lack of pass rush has been the bane of our defense. Ranking 110th in sacks don't get it.
2. PUNTERS, KICKOFFs/KICKOFF COVERAGE, and FGs. Can the two new specialists be solid as tr-fr? Butker made covering kickoffs--something we've historically struggled with--a nonfactor, and he was fairly consistent kicking FGs while canning some crucial long FGs in his career. Rodwell rounded out into a decent punter in his senior year and produced several boomers. Shanked punts and big kickoff returns shorten the field and lead to easy scores, so this is an important area.
3 CENTER: If Cooper and Morgan can lock down #1 & #2 centers then Marshall can stay at tackle where we are thin, and we begin to look REALLY solid and physical up the middle on offense; The five "up the middle" positions (G-C-G, QB, & BB ) would be laced with physical specimens in Braun, Cooper, Bryan, Jordan, & Dedrick Mills. Devine is a beefy back up to have as well.
4. DEPTH & ROTATION ON THE DL: There are now some pretty promising guys on the DL who have been in the program awhile. At DE, Simmons, Freeman, St Amour. At DT Branch, Adams, Cerge-Henderson, & Glanton. Can these guys be solid enough to rotate without dropoff, stay fresh, etc. Can a new face or two emerge at DE or DT (Martin maybe). There is potential.
5. TACKLE: It's thin. Can Jahaziel keep the fire burning and not sophmore slump now that he's established? Can guys like Stickler, a Morgan brother, Zach Quinney, or a tr-fr push Jahaziel adequately? Marshall is a good tackle. Health and depth will be a concern.

For me backers are less worrisome. I like what Terrell Lewis and Brent Mitchell bring and there are some promising younger guys on the roster who I believe will emerge. The DL can make linebackers look good or bad, so for me LBs didn't make the top 5.

QB is a big position and while I don't think Jordan is going to equal Justin Thomas in the air any time soon, I also think he is capable and has been around awhile. He's tall and should be able to see better, and he has a talented corps of skill guys to work with. The OL will need to be able to protect him, but with the power game looking strong play action should be devastating, and the solid skill players running routes/making correct reads/not dropping balls will be huge. So I think these things will boost Jordan's confidence so where he'll be able to stand back there and develop. Plus there are guys there to push him and fill in in case of injury. So it didn't make my list.

Defenses that intend to use their preparation for Justin Thomas last year this year will be torched. As fast, and as elusive as JT was, he was not the first option much of the time. Jordan will call his own number more frequently, can gain yards inside or outside of the tackles, and can pass adequately enough. He will have to be accounted for and that should benefit AB to the outside and BB to the inside. JT's great speed helped to compensate for his lack of ball handling ability. I believe we all will be pleasantly surprised with MJ's individual production and that of the entire offense.

 

[alagold]

Roof has had some good lineman like Gotsis and Attouchu here so it isn't like he's working with chopped liver. His defenses, in my opinion, are bad because he can't teach fundamentals which was Groh's problem as well. Our LBs are constantly put of place and we don't wrap up. We miss tackles and arm tackle too much. Our DLine seems to lack pass rush moves unless they are a special talent like Sneezy. I mentioned in another thread Wake, BC, and Duke. Wake and BC had two of the hottest DCs in football the last few years before they were hired away. Duke always gives us trouble it seems. They don't do anything super crazy on defense (BC uses a true hybrid 5th CB/Safety/Linebacker but I feel that's more common in CFB these days) but they play sound fundamentals and try to avoid making mistakes. The LBs and CBs wrap up and stay in position and their DLines learn how to stay low and use some basic swim moves and leverages to create pressure. IMO, and I know how controversial this is, Coach Mac, Coach Pelton, and Coach Speed need to get a long hard look at to see if they're teaching our guys properly. Give me some fundamental defensive football and you can run any scheme you want.

some of the problems on DEF come from the fact some guys are not FUNDAMENTALLY sound in hi school and can't change
I've seen several tapes of our recruits that DON"T know how to tackle well-how to get under control and deliver blow and wrap-up.I see a LOT of arm grabbing and "slinging".It can be ok in hi school with smaller/weaker players but D1 guys don't go down with that crap.
So even when they get in position ,they miss tackle.
I really believe PJ Davis was the only really good tackler here in the last 4 yrs and I could see it from his Fr yr.

 

[alentrekin]

I see a lot of mention of Lewis on this board but not much talk about Alexander. Last hear when Davis came out of games, Victor went in. Lewis backed up Alford. All spots are an open competition in camp, but I believe right now we are looking at Mitchell and Alexander in our base 4-2-5. I want to hear good things about Vic from the coaches. He played a lot of snaps last year but the only play I remember was a near sack.

Roof said the weakside 4-2-5 was Vic and TLewis, in no order.

If I heard right, Bruce JS was not listed at the other spots, so may be repping at MLB.