Together We GTSwarm?

[AE 87]

First of all, let me admit up-front that I don't claim to be perfect in following my own suggestions here. However--and some may disagree--this forum developed a real bad form over the last couple of years which I would encourage us to try and avoid.

I'm going to start with two suggestions. I may add more later, but I also encourage others to add their own suggestions or to disagree with mine. I put this in the football forum because I'm concerned especially about discussions in the football forum during our time of transition.

1) Let's try and focus on what is being said in our conversations, not on who is saying it or why we think they are saying it.

For example, if someone posts an opinion about the play-calling, responding with one's own opinion about the play-calling is appropriate while responding with accusations of being a CPJ fanboy who is just lurking to hate CGC and is enjoying GT losing is not.

Similarly, if someone expresses an opinion that they like the guys on the sideline being able to have fun and that the sideline excitement is ultimately adding juice to the team on the field or whatever, responding with one's own opinion about this behavior is appropriate while responding with accusations of being a CGC fanboy who doesn't mind GT losing to an FCS team because they have their preferred coach is not.
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2) Let's try to be consistent in the standards we use in assessing our team's performance, especially during this coaching transition.

For example, if you only looked at results and ignored issues of injuries or of player focus and execution when assessing our team's performance under CPJ, then don't use those issues in defense of CGC.

Similarly, if you defended CPJ for particular losses by citing issues of injuries or of player focus and execution, then don't ignore them when discussing CGC.
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[CuseJacket]

Appreciate the post and believe that's it's appropriate and logical

The mods totally understand the need to vent and understand why folks are frustrated by Saturday. Between crying and laughing about the reactions to Saturday's loss, I was just thinking to myself... was this secretly a unifying event for the fanbase? It's a stretch, but let me be clear about what I mean. I've see literally no one who finds losing to an FCS squad acceptable. Full stop. We finally have a consensus on something.

The debate that is occurring is one that won't be settled any time soon, imo. While we all agree the result was unacceptable, debating the reasons for the result is fine within the examples that @AE 87 pointed out. No one is "drinking koolaid" or "fanboying" the result, terms that I think need to stop. Similarly, no one is a "hater" because we lost to FCS. Another term I think needs to stop. The use of these terms are now striking me as grenades that are destructive to real conversation, borderline inflammatory, and therefore I am open to considering them against the rules... even though my understanding is that they are at times being used as short hand for larger points previously made. Interested in thoughts here.

Personal opinion and not representative of mods... I've seen folks talk in absolutes about the ability of CGC, CDP, etc. To me, despite a disappointing result on Saturday, I think anyone who has drawn a definitive conclusion either way about our coaches three weeks into their W/L tenure is someone who was never open-minded to having their opinion changed to begin with. Some initial opinions will be proven right either way, but the "black or white" opinions about our coaches is crazy talk at this stage. When is it appropriate, I don't know. But not now. I think the "absolutes" are a minority opinion on here, but they're certainly vocal and obvious in the threads.

Coming back to consensus, I think nearly all agree that the sooner we get back to X's and O's, talk about facts rather than projections, the sooner it'll be easier to get over the loss and move back to a better GTSwarm.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Good luck with this initiative. I think it’s a non starter unfortunately. We have basically two camps since the CGC hire. The “CGC is our obvious savior” camp. And the “I’ll wait and see” camp. Many members here fall in between both camps and are positive on some aspects of the staff and negative on others.

Almost everyone who expressed a wait and see mentality has been attacked, scolded for not being “on board the hype train”, or has been asked to either shut up or stop even being a Tech fan. Pretty laughable stuff. This was before our first real practices even and has continued to the present.

Now the wait is over. The seeing has begun, and it ain’t pretty thus far. It doesn’t instill much confidence for those who had doubts already.

I do see a lot of hypocrisy on the board. In my opinion it’s primarily coming from the big CGC supporters. The same posters who attempted to proclaim skeptics as fans who actually want to see Tech fail because we are no longer “an option team.” The same posters that said...”just wait until games begin and you will finally see what good coaching will do.” Well......we are still waiting even though the games have begun.

No one is calling for CGC to be fired. Some are calling for the OC to be fired. I actually think that’s unfair with our Oline issues. But there are some things he has done, and some things he has failed to do so far, that if unchanged will make for a fair argument at seasons end. Many of us now have greater doubts that promises from the staff will be fulfilled. I think most reasonable people outside of our fan base would agree with most of those doubts now.

Winning cures all. Win and the doubts will fade. The criticisms will fade. If losing continues the reverse will hold and the two camps will become camps of “CGC sychophants” and “CGC haters”. And in four years the search for our next “savior” will begin again.

And guess what? If the institute doesn’t close the financial gaps and staffing gaps with our competitors more, CGC will be more likely to fail than succeed.

Having a great O scheme in the last regime was not sufficient to compete at the desired level consistently. Having a great D scheme in this regime won’t be sufficient alone either.

Collins might be our best recruiter ever. Thus far the results in recruiting indicate he needs much more support from the AA to get us where he has promised. I think it’s impossible for him to achieve those goals if Tech continues to insist on underfunding the program relative to our competitors.

 

[YellowJacketFan2018]

Good luck,however i don't think it will work because of how god awful things are starting to look concerning Georgia Tech football

 

[MWBATL]

Personally I don't think we have two extreme camps..I think we have a fan base with a few vocal fans at each extreme and much of the fan base in the middle (like me).

I really don't care much about the type of offense, the hype stuff, etc etc..I care only about competitive results. Saturday wasn't acceptable. Full stop. And there is plenty of blame to go around the entire organization, top to bottom. But I also will want to wait and see how this team and coaching staff goes about its business the rest of the year before I form any lasting impressions. Adversity can bring out different reactions...sometimes teams will pull together and become stronger, smarter, more dedicated. It is also possible some folks will give up and peel out. I will wait and see what happens before making my own judgments. It's why I have posted very little since Saturday. As bad as it was, I think there has been a lot of over-reaction. (It is understandable though, I am not being critical as much as I'm trying to say "let's just chill a bit and watch and see what happens".)

 

[Ibeeballin]

The “wait and see” crew never been that. It’s always felt like “wait & pounce on the 1st sign of trouble & get a pound a flesh for CPJ”

 

[CuseJacket]

Good luck with this initiative. I think it’s a non starter unfortunately. We have basically two camps since the CGC hire. The “CGC is our obvious savior” camp. And the “I’ll wait and see” camp. Many members here fall in between both camps and are positive on some aspects of the staff and negative on others.

Almost everyone who expressed a wait and see mentality has been attacked, scolded for not being “on board the hype train”, or has been asked to either shut up or stop even being a Tech fan. Pretty laughable stuff. This was before our first real practices even and has continued to the present.

Now the wait is over. The seeing has begun, and it ain’t pretty thus far. It doesn’t instill much confidence for those who had doubts already.

I do see a lot of hypocrisy on the board. In my opinion it’s primarily coming from the big CGC supporters. The same posters who attempted to proclaim skeptics as fans who actually want to see Tech fail because we are no longer “an option team.” The same posters that said...”just wait until games begin and you will finally see what good coaching will do.” Well......we are still waiting even though the games have begun.

No one is calling for CGC to be fired. Some are calling for the OC to be fired. I actually think that’s unfair with our Oline issues. But there are some things he has done, and some things he has failed to do so far, that if unchanged will make for a fair argument at seasons end. Many of us now have greater doubts that promises from the staff will be fulfilled. I think most reasonable people outside of our fan base would agree with most of those doubts now.

Winning cures all. Win and the doubts will fade. The criticisms will fade. If losing continues the reverse will hold and the two camps will become camps of “CGC sychophants” and “CGC haters”. And in four years the search for our next “savior” will begin again.

And guess what? If the institute doesn’t close the financial gaps and staffing gaps with our competitors more, CGC will be more likely to fail than succeed.

Having a great O scheme in the last regime was not sufficient to compete at the desired level consistently. Having a great D scheme in this regime won’t be sufficient alone either.

Collins might be our best recruiter ever. Thus far the results in recruiting indicate he needs much more support from the AA to get us where he has promised. I think it’s impossible for him to achieve those goals if Tech continues to insist on underfunding the program relative to our competitors.

What part is a non-starter? Speaking to some of the points that mods can control, we have removed posts that we've seen calling for folks to stop being fans. I'm sure we missed some, but that goal seems achievable. I think those types of posts are uncalled for when the reality is everyone posting here is in the top 1% of GT fans, imo, simply due to the fact that we spend time on an online message board.

While some have lumped you specifically into a broad group, my post does not reference anything I've seen from you. Yes, you have been a skeptic, and that is allowed, despite it not being popular with some. Others have definitively declared that CGC is not the answer in the last couple of days. That is what I'm referring to as being short-sighted, but is similarly an allowed opinion, albeit one that I disagree with.

I disagree with other parts of your opinion, but that wasn't the purpose of this thread, and my opinion is just that, an opinion. Everyone has one. The means by which we engage others was the premise of this thread, imo, and warrants a heavy dose of consideration from both the skeptic crowd and those who have demonstrated little tolerance of opposing views. I'm confident that the reality is everyone agrees there are things to improve already based on results, and there's more common ground than folks have been willing to concede based on their conduct and choice of words, many of which I'm starting to believe should be considered inflammatory.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I've seen folks talk in absolutes

This, IMO, is the single biggest problem with conversations here right now. A lot of posters allow no room for nuance in reply. You either agree with them lock step or you're a hater/kool-aid drinker/cultist/etc

I'm also of the opinion some of those terms need to be banned at least temporarily.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

This, IMO, is the single biggest problem with conversations here right now. A lot of posters allow no room for nuance in reply. You either agree with them lock step or you're a hater/kool-aid drinker/cultist/etc

I'm also of the opinion some of those terms need to be banned at least temporarily.

Id also add the "term" GTFOH to the banned list as well...

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The “wait and see” crew never been that. It’s always felt like “wait & pounce on the 1st sign of trouble & get a pound a flesh for CPJ”

See, this is the absolutes I am talking about. I'm firmly in the wait and see camp and have continued to preach patience in spite of the embarrassing loss. You're painting a lot of people as wait and pounce because of the actions of a handful of posters.

 

[Ibeeballin]

See, this is the absolutes I am talking about. I'm firmly in the wait and see camp and have continued to preach patience in spite of the embarrassing loss. You're painting a lot of people as wait and pounce because of the actions of a handful of posters.

I purposely said “felt” bc feelings are not on absolute for everyone.

 

[gt02]

The “wait and see” crew never been that. It’s always felt like “wait & pounce on the 1st sign of trouble & get a pound a flesh for CPJ”

Lol. This is exhibit A as to what this thread is trying to stop. You post more about CPJ than folks that love CPJ.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I purposely said “felt” bc feelings are not on absolute for everyone.

Never was the absolute I was referring to in your post, but I get what you're saying. I can't tell you how many times I've been called a hater because I am skeptical about the claims that some are making in regards to our new HC, yet I've been one of the few trying to caution everyone not to judge him on the next two years...

 

[Ibeeballin]

Lol. This is exhibit A as to what this thread is trying to stop. You post more about CPJ than folks that love CPJ.

Triggered much?

No, not really. I’m posting what’s relevant to the convo.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Never was the absolute I was referring to in your post, but I get what you're saying. I can't tell you how many times I've been called a hater because I am skeptical about the claims that some are making in regards to our new HC, yet I've been one of the few trying to caution everyone not to judge him on the next two years...

I am obviously a big time hypester and I personally never counted you among the group of absolutists on the other side we're talking about here, even though we've gone back and forth on recruiting and the NCAA, at times.

 

[CuseJacket]

The “wait and see” crew never been that. It’s always felt like “wait & pounce on the 1st sign of trouble & get a pound a flesh for CPJ”

I definitely think there's confirmation bias all over the place. Some can say Saturday proves something about our roster make-up. Some can say it proves something about coaching. There are signs of optimism (recruiting, beating USF) and this past Saturday provided a real dose of caution.

I'm not going to label a poster's motives. While I have an opinion, it's just that, an opinion. The mods will base warnings and post removals based on content. That's where I've asked for opinions in my first post.

I think 90+% here are "wait and see", as I understand the use of the term. Some chose to be optimistic and some chose to be pessimistic before the season started. Some chose to be vocal of their opinion in an assertive way, and I suspect most don't stand out because they haven't posted or included "hot takes" in every post. I'm "wait and see" and remain positive that CGC will do well, provided the school and fans continue to support him.

 

[JorgeJonas]

The “wait and see” crew never been that. It’s always felt like “wait & pounce on the 1st sign of trouble & get a pound a flesh for CPJ”

Even if this is true, it’s kinda on Collins not to let it happen against the frickin’ citadel.

Most people expected it to be a tough season. I thought 4-8 was our ceiling. But it’s hard to dump on people who were skeptical or less enthusiastic about him when he goes out and lays an egg against a 1-AA school.

I guess my question now is at what point is he responsible for the team on the field, because it sure as hell seems that he isn’t right now.

 

[slugboy]

Thanks AE.

I'd really like people to stay on topic, and I don't think that's unusual. If someone is asking about an injured player, there's no reason to post about the Patenaude's play calling or Collins' hype; there are a ton of threads about those subjects. It's not like the person talking about the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties is unaware that people are discussing our blocking and quarterback rotation. Saying that people missed blocks doesn't mean you were happy with the play calls or the coaching. If you're trying to talk about one subject and someone keeps interjecting something else, it makes it difficult to keep up with a thread.
If someone missed your post about the quarterback rotation because they aren't looking in that thread, let them miss it--if they were interested in talking about that, they'd read that thread and post in it. That doesn't make them a bad fan or ignorant about football.

 

[gtg391z]

N.M. it was covered above by Cuse.

 

[gt02]

Triggered much?

No, not really. I’m posting what’s relevant to the convo.

I don't understand why CPJ should be relevant to any convo any more, unless we are specifically talking about past coaches. This weekend, we were talking about Citadel and the current team, not the prior regime.