Time for the NCAA to give GT Football our ACC trophy back

[Root4GT]

Your words, not mine. You can pick and choose as you like, but there are hundreds of other examples. That one just happened to come to mind as I read your post. There was nothing desperate in the choice.

So, I guess for you it depends on how important the issue is, regardless of the ethics. We can agree to disagree. And I'd never insult the Civil Rights Movement.

Sorry but GT screwed this up. All on GT for turning a minor violation into a major one. You don’t have to like it or agree but that’s how it was.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Sorry but GT screwed this up. All on GT for turning a minor violation into a major one. You don’t have to like it or agree but that’s how it was.

I understand what you and @Techster are saying. I think Radakovich should have immediately pushed back when told not to tell CPJ or anyone else what was going on and RAN straight to GT Counsel. He screwed up by not going straight to the NCAA and demanding oversight of an overzealous investigator. The investigator was looking to ambush a 20-year-old kid in Morgan Bennett, and that's wrong. GTAA has an obligation to protect their student-athletes and not just throw these kids to the wolves. GT Counsel should have stepped in and pushed back. There were a lot of mistakes made, but, in the end, when all the dust settled, the NCAA Infractions Committee should have stepped in and made it right instead of bringing down the hammer. I disagree 100% with the way it was handled on both sides. But, the NCAA was the one that did wrong first.

 

[Root4GT]

I understand what you and @Techster are saying. I think Radakovich should have immediately pushed back when told not to tell CPJ or anyone else what was going on and RAN straight to GT Counsel. He screwed up by not going straight to the NCAA and demanding oversight of an overzealous investigator. The investigator was looking to ambush a 20-year-old kid in Morgan Bennett, and that's wrong. GTAA has an obligation to protect their student-athletes and not just throw these kids to the wolves. GT Counsel should have stepped in and pushed back. There were a lot of mistakes made, but, in the end, when all the dust settled, the NCAA Infractions Committee should have stepped in and made it right instead of bringing down the hammer. I disagree 100% with the way it was handled on both sides. But, the NCAA was the one that did wrong first.

In any investigation the investigator wants to talk to the person being questioned without them being prepped by outside sources. That was a normal request from the investigator.

Why do you think it was inappropriate? Have you ever done formal investigations that will undergo legal review where individuals needed to be interviewed?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Sorry but GT screwed this up. All on GT for turning a minor violation into a major one. You don’t have to like it or agree but that’s how it was.

This seems like a pretty one sided view of things to me.

I don’t think the minor violation was the issue, was it?

It seemed to me it was the NCAA putting Tech in what psychologists call a double bind. Tech decided not to be schizophrenic, which is what a double bind can do, and decided instead to treat the player involved with dignity and integrity, exercising appropriate care for a student athlete, as we should expect of them.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

In any investigation the investigator wants to talk to the person being questioned without them being prepped by outside sources. That was a normal request from the investigator.

Why do you think it was inappropriate? Have you ever done formal investigations that will undergo legal review where individuals needed to be interviewed?

Except that in such interviews the subject of investigation is allowed to continue their normal work routine so as not to tip them off. You don’t tell their boss to fire them, don’t give them a reason for the firing, and prohibit the boss from explaining anything to the production team that gets shut down by the loss of a key team member. This was a ridiculously impossible situation that the coaching staff did the best they could with.

 

[Root4GT]

Except that in such interviews the subject of investigation is allowed to continue their normal work routine so as not to tip them off. You don’t tell their boss to fire them, don’t give them a reason for the firing, and prohibit the boss from explaining anything to the production team that gets shut down by the loss of a key team member. This was a ridiculously impossible situation that the coaching staff did the best they could with.

You have to tell the AD that the school is under investigation and the general nature of the allegations. Good grief this is basic stuff. The AD screwed up. The HC screwed up. GT screwed up and caused the issue.

 

[forensicbuzz]

In any investigation the investigator wants to talk to the person being questioned without them being prepped by outside sources. That was a normal request from the investigator.

Why do you think it was inappropriate? Have you ever done formal investigations that will undergo legal review where individuals needed to be interviewed?

How does informing Morgan Bennett that the investigator wants to talk to him connote him being prepped by outside sources? In what world do investigators get to tell the person in charge that they can't tell someone they're going to be interviewed? That's hot garbage in my opinion. Of course, the investigator wants to be able to blindside the witness, but there are proper processes for conducting interviews and, in my opinion, that wasn't appropriate. If I were DRad, I would have told the investigator that I would not provide access to my players without representation from the school being present and the student being forewarned that the interview was going to happen.

And to your last question, yes, I have. As a Professional Engineer doing forensic work, I've interviewed hundreds of people in formal and informal investigations that undergo legal review. I've given sworn testimony based on the information obtained from these interviews. This a part of what I do every day. If I weren't a licensed professional engineer, I would need a private investigator's license to talk to anyone.

 

[stinger78]

No, it wasn't. GT was given the rules, GT decided not to follow them. GT made a conscious decision to not follow rules. You know what? If a judge or policeman tells you not to do something, and you do it anyways, guess what happens?

Investigation started as something stupid (couple hundred dollars of apparel), GT turned it into something bigger than it should have been. We need to take our gold tinted glasses off.

I don't disagree that our leadership on the Hill has no balls, but leadership also did it to themselves. That seems to be the GT way.

All that said, f&ck the NCAA. GT still won the 2009 Championship on the field.

OK. It’s UGA week. We’re holding a perfectly healthy BayBay and Morgan Burnett both out of practice because we were told that they are under investigation and may be ineligible. What do we say to them and the team?

 

[Root4GT]

How does informing Morgan Bennett that the investigator wants to talk to him connote him being prepped by outside sources? In what world do investigators get to tell the person in charge that they can't tell someone they're going to be interviewed? That's hot garbage in my opinion. Of course, the investigator wants to be able to blindside the witness, but there are proper processes for conducting interviews and, in my opinion, that wasn't appropriate. If I were DRad, I would have told the investigator that I would not provide access to my players without representation from the school being present and the student being forewarned that the interview was going to happen.

And to your last question, yes, I have. As a Professional Engineer doing forensic work, I've interviewed hundreds of people in formal and informal investigations that undergo legal review. I've given sworn testimony based on the information obtained from these interviews. This a part of what I do every day. If I weren't a licensed professional engineer, I would need a private investigator's license to talk to anyone.

It is common practice to tell the person in charge of an organization that that organization is under investigation for X offense. Then to tell the person in charge not to discuss the investigation with anyone besides the legal representatives of the institution.

If you actually believe that Johnson didn’t advise Burntrre what to say you live in fantasy land.

All NCAA Schools agreed to give the NCAA investigative power. They all agreed to follow the NCAA rules regarding investigations.

GT did not follow the rules. GT got punished. GT is at fault. Blaming the investigator is silly. He was doing his job.

Seems in your investigations you prefer that individuals who may have violated rules get to try and cover up the violations with their bosses prior to you talking with the individual. Are you trying to trap them in a coverup? Interesting approach.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It is common practice to tell the person in charge of an organization that that organization is under investigation for X offense. Then to tell the person in charge not to discuss the investigation with anyone besides the legal representatives of the institution.

If you actually believe that Johnson didn’t advise Burntrre what to say you live in fantasy land.

All NCAA Schools agreed to give the NCAA investigative power. They all agreed to follow the NCAA rules regarding investigations.

GT did not follow the rules. GT got punished. GT is at fault. Blaming the investigator is silly. He was doing his job.

Seems in your investigations you prefer that individuals who may have violated rules get to try and cover up the violations with their bosses prior to you talking with the individual. Are you trying to trap them in a coverup? Interesting approach.

You remember this so differently than I. I never saw anywhere that CPJ was involved in a cover up that included prepping witnesses.

 

[GT33]

OK. It’s UGA week. We’re holding a perfectly healthy BayBay and Morgan Burnett both out of practice because we were told that they are under investigation and may be ineligible. What do we say to them and the team?

It's just amazing that GT fans cannot read between the lines, but we are Engineers and tend to be 100% literal. Reading some it should have gone like this:

Coach: Yeah, hey you 2 guys can't practice and can't play in the biggest game of the year. Go sit in your dorm.

Players: Why coach?

Coach: No particular reason.

Team: Hey coach, where's our two top players?

Coach: Dorm room

Team Why?

Caoch: No particular reason. By the way don't talk to them at all about anything. Nothing to see here, move along.

The country has lost its minds. We can no longer discern rght from wrong. The NCAA should have told GT, this is an extremely minor infraction not even worth anything other than a note from us to you telling you relatives are not eligible to give kids ANYTHING. They should have cleared the players out of hand for practice, playing in the game, etc.

You don't go firing or suspending your top performers at work because they forgot to refill the coffee pot. Just idiotic on so many levels particularly when you have so many major infractions going unpunished. Cars, drugs, hookers, homes, cash, jobs, etc all being given to players and families. Nothing got done, but wham those T-shirts. That there is worthy of a huge penalty. Add that to taking Physics instead of Biology for a science course and the ensuing penalties we got. Universities have had entirely fake programs, damn near nothing happened. GT fans still apologizing to the NCAA for BS/imaginary rules being violated while everyone else cheats like crazy around us & gets off with nothing.

 

[LargeFO]

It's just amazing that GT fans cannot read between the lines, but we are Engineers and tend to be 100% literal. Reading some it should have gone like this:

Coach: Yeah, hey you 2 guys can't practice and can't play in the biggest game of the year. Go sit in your dorm.

Players: Why coach?

Coach: No particular reason.

Team: Hey coach, where's our two top players?

Coach: Dorm room

Team Why?

Caoch: No particular reason. By the way don't talk to them at all about anything. Nothing to see here, move along.

The country has lost its minds. We can no longer discern rght from wrong. The NCAA should have told GT, this is an extremely minor infraction not even worth anything other than a note from us to you telling you relatives are not eligible to give kids ANYTHING. They should have cleared the players out of hand for practice, playing in the game, etc.

You don't go firing or suspending your top performers at work because they forgot to refill the coffee pot. Just idiotic on so many levels particularly when you have so many major infractions going unpunished. Cars, drugs, hookers, homes, cash, jobs, etc all being given to players and families. Nothing got done, but wham those T-shirts. That there is worthy of a huge penalty. Add that to taking Physics instead of Biology for a science course and the ensuing penalties we got. Universities have had entirely fake programs, damn near nothing happened. GT fans still apologizing to the NCAA for BS/imaginary rules being violated while everyone else cheats like crazy around us & gets off with nothing.

Exactly. AND a division RIVAL investigator. Please. Whole thing was a sham.

 

[forensicbuzz]

It is common practice to tell the person in charge of an organization that that organization is under investigation for X offense. Then to tell the person in charge not to discuss the investigation with anyone besides the legal representatives of the institution.

If you actually believe that Johnson didn’t advise Burntrre what to say you live in fantasy land.

All NCAA Schools agreed to give the NCAA investigative power. They all agreed to follow the NCAA rules regarding investigations.

GT did not follow the rules. GT got punished. GT is at fault. Blaming the investigator is silly. He was doing his job.

Seems in your investigations you prefer that individuals who may have violated rules get to try and cover up the violations with their bosses prior to you talking with the individual. Are you trying to trap them in a coverup? Interesting approach.

You've created a condition that you don't know exists by assuming facts not in evidence, and then played it off as if it's reality.

There is no NCAA investigative rule that says that individuals that are to be interviewed are not allowed to know they're being interviewed ahead of time. The investigator can ask for whatever he or she wants, but that doesn't mean the GT leadership has to follow it. There's no world where what the investigator told DRad to do was appropriate. Your assumption that CPJ coached Burnett in what to say and what not to say also has no basis in fact, merely speculation based on what you think he did or would have done. Trying to minimize my position with claims of absurdity doesn't strengthen your position.

Your final comment isn't really worthy of a response since it is illogical and not representative of anything I've said. However, everyone I interview knows I'm going to ask them questions before I do so. I assess the physical evidence and use critical thinking and the analytical skills I've developed over the past 35 years to weigh the credibility of what I'm being told.

We can agree to disagree. I think the investigator overstepped his mandate. You don't. That's fine. We're entitled to our opinions and it won't change the past or affect the future.

 

[Root4GT]

You've created a condition that you don't know exists by assuming facts not in evidence, and then played it off as if it's reality.

There is no NCAA investigative rule that says that individuals that are to be interviewed are not allowed to know they're being interviewed ahead of time. The investigator can ask for whatever he or she wants, but that doesn't mean the GT leadership has to follow it. There's no world where what the investigator told DRad to do was appropriate. Your assumption that CPJ coached Burnett in what to say and what not to say also has no basis in fact, merely speculation based on what you think he did or would have done. Trying to minimize my position with claims of absurdity doesn't strengthen your position.

Your final comment isn't really worthy of a response since it is illogical and not representative of anything I've said. However, everyone I interview knows I'm going to ask them questions before I do so. I assess the physical evidence and use critical thinking and the analytical skills I've developed over the past 35 years to weigh the credibility of what I'm being told.

We can agree to disagree. I think the investigator overstepped his mandate. You don't. That's fine. We're entitled to our opinions and it won't change the past or affect the future.

We do disagree. The NCAA made their ruling in accordance with their procedures. GT screwed up badly and turned a minor infraction into having its ACC Championship vacated.

You can say unfair all you want but the fault lies completely with GT. As Techster said when you intentionally violate the instructions in a formal investigation don’t expect mercy.

This was an Administrative Investigation. In a legal one it would be Obstruction..

GT won the ACC Title Game. That counts. GT had the win vacated. That hurts.

There was more that GT did besides bBurnett against what the NCAA directed.

You have assumed the investigator had motive to screw GT. That is conjecture at best.

 

[LargeFO]

We do disagree. The NCAA made their ruling in accordance with their procedures. GT screwed up badly and turned a minor infraction into having its ACC Championship vacated.

You can say unfair all you want but the fault lies completely with GT. As Techster said when you intentionally violate the instructions in a formal investigation don’t expect mercy.

This was an Administrative Investigation. In a legal one it would be Obstruction..

GT won the ACC Title Game. That counts. GT had the win vacated. That hurts.

There was more that GT did besides bBurnett against what the NCAA directed.

You have assumed the investigator had motive to screw GT. That is conjecture at best.

It was a perfect definition of conflict of interest whether he had motive or not.

 

[forensicbuzz]

You have assumed the investigator had motive to screw GT. That is conjecture at best.

I don't. I think he got butt-hurt because DRad didn't do what he told him to do. Lack of Institutional Cooperation was the biggest hit.

 

[Root4GT]

I don't. I think he got butt-hurt because DRad didn't do what he told him to do. Lack of Institutional Cooperation was the biggest hit.

That is what got the Championship vacated. That is why in my view it is on GT. The NCAA had the power and not cooperating proved a mistake.

Part off the issue was Thomas was going to have to sit out the Georgia game while the investigation was ongoing. That was huge and emotional for GT. That played a role in non cooperation.

GT simply should make a replica trophy and display it.

 

[forensicbuzz]

That is what got the Championship vacated. That is why in my view it is on GT. The NCAA had the power and not cooperating proved a mistake.

Part off the issue was Thomas was going to have to sit out the Georgia game while the investigation was ongoing. That was huge and emotional for GT. That played a role in non cooperation.

GT simply should make a replica trophy and display it.

We have the trophy. It was in a closet in the Edge Building until very recently. The NCAA has the power to do whatever they're allowed to do. Had GT lawyered up, like many other schools have done, and gone after the NCAA for over-reach, the trophy would probably still be on public display.

 

[Root4GT]

We have the trophy. It was in a closet in the Edge Building until very recently. The NCAA has the power to do whatever they're allowed to do. Had GT lawyered up, like many other schools have done, and gone after the NCAA for over-reach, the trophy would probably still be on public display.

Time to display it now. With FSU and Clemson suing the ACC they won’t want a headache over small stuff to them.

 

[yeti92]

We have the trophy. It was in a closet in the Edge Building until very recently. The NCAA has the power to do whatever they're allowed to do. Had GT lawyered up, like many other schools have done, and gone after the NCAA for over-reach, the trophy would probably still be on public display.

I've never really understood this but not really looked into an explanation either. Is there an NCAA rule or something that says we can't display it? What are they going to do if we do?