Film Room The Summer Push Play 7

[dressedcheeseside]

I think the correct read was a quick pull pitch.

I agree, but I'm not very certain the play goes anywhere, still too many defenders unblocked on playside/middle. There's two defenders not even in the frame when the play begins. Nobody seems to have responsibility for either safety, Quay takes the OLB (Freeman is pitch key), I assume the wr takes the corner.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Another observation: Corey Griffin (who is out of the frame at the start) is the db who I'm guessing is assigned to JJ Green (in motion). However, he doesn't follow him across midfield as if he knows ahead of time he's gonna double back. If the play was a pitch to a streaking JJ Green who keeps going in the same direction, he probably gets the corner and is still running as I type.

 

[zhavenor]

So the quarterback should have pulled and then run left on a keeper?

Yes he should have pulled. The counting starts with the inside shoulder of the tackle the line backer was basically stacked on the end and both were outside this position so they together are 1 and 2. Generally one of them will go inside to take the dive, and will be the dive read and the other will stay outside and take the QB. The Qb will read the area and whoever fills the position not a particular player. Not the easiest thing in the world but you need to be able to make the read to make the offense work and with the number of qbs in the past that have made it certainly not impossible. Good QBs even make these reads at the High School level. If both, lb and de, go outside to take the qb and pitch it would be a give read and the guard center and guard should be able to take care of whoever the defense sends from the back side to take the dive. If you would like I think I can find an article where Ricky Dobbs, he was a QB at navy a couple of years back, was asked about it.

About the numbering you had questioned elsewhere... You are right. It seems Griffin was the extra man on that side and he played the motion really well. Even with that if the QB make the right read the play should have picked up 3-5 yards. What is the saying though, if ifs and buts where beer and nuts then everyone would be happy

Also sorry about the delay. I had to go and run.

 

[Longestday]

I'll show you other plays in the game with similar blocking, but people get their blocking.

All game the DT and the OLB are the option keys(not pitch keys).

 

[alentrekin]

Might be easier to discuss if we are using the CPJ/common counting system, as @zhavenor does above. Here's a writeup on it.

 

[iceeater1969]

Great hit by BM

Hit 26 hard, bounced off , then helped on tackle by 42. While helping on tackle the blocker who was supposed to block him (Lee) never quit and circled back and hit BM.

26 WHO WAS HIT A YARD DEEP IN BACKFIELD STILL GOT ALMOST 2 YD GAIN.

 

[zhavenor]

Might be easier to discuss if we are using the CPJ/common counting system, as @zhavenor does above. Here's a writeup on it.

Cool site. I did not know about that one. I'll have to peruse it to see if there are any differences from what I've seen elsewhere. Thanks.

 

[SlawDog]

Hit 26 hard, bounced off , then helped on tackle by 42. While helping on tackle the blocker who was supposed to block him (Lee) never quit and circled back and hit BM.

26 WHO WAS HIT A YARD DEEP IN BACKFIELD STILL GOT ALMOST 2 YD GAIN.

Yeah he was steam rolled....sheesh

 

[Longestday]

OK, play 6 has the right blocking. I re-watched play 7 on video and Lee was aiming for the LB, realizes he mis-timed, and even reaches an arm out to him. This had me convinced. But on play 8 you will see Lee heads outside to a safety and Marshal reads the blitzing LB and the DT. This makes me think I am wrong...

Can someone explain the differences in blocking between plays 6 and 8? 6 clearly has option reads of the DE and OLB. 8 clearly has option reads of DE and middle LB.

Play 8


Play 6

 

[AE 87]

OK, play 6 has the right blocking. I re-watched play 7 on video and Lee was aiming for the LB, realizes he mis-timed, and even reaches an arm out to him. This had me convinced. But on play 8 you will see Lee heads outside to a safety and Marshal reads the blitzing LB and the DT. This makes me think I am wrong...

Can someone explain the differences in blocking between plays 6 and 8? 6 clearly has option reads of the DE and OLB. 8 clearly has option reads of DE and middle LB.

Play 8


Play 6

The keys are not positions but counts from ~B gap, #1 is dive key, #2 is pitch key.

In 8, this is cross charging MLB and DE. In 6, it's DE and OLB.

I think that's right but @zhavenor knows better.

 

[alentrekin]

Don't think you are wrong -- hard to know the scheme especially when D may be jumping the play. IIUC, there are different ways to block veer so it's hard to tell without knowing the calls.

E.g. can send AB to "load" block the 2, as in 6. If TQM hugs the load block, which cottrell , then he puts the 3 in a hard spot. Still a nice gain.

8 looks like a mess in part because Vic and KCH are chasing it from the backside. If they aren't there, no one has QB -- keshun and TL both flattened to pitch.

Thought this was pretty interesting: http://footballislifeblog.blogspot....paul-johnsons-if-then-methodology-to.html?m=1

 

[zhavenor]

OK, play 6 has the right blocking. I re-watched play 7 on video and Lee was aiming for the LB, realizes he mis-timed, and even reaches an arm out to him. This had me convinced. But on play 8 you will see Lee heads outside to a safety and Marshal reads the blitzing LB and the DT. This makes me think I am wrong...

Can someone explain the differences in blocking between plays 6 and 8? 6 clearly has option reads of the DE and OLB. 8 clearly has option reads of DE and middle LB.

Play 8


Play 6

Ok so this is my take. It took me a little bit cause I'm not seeing the all 22. I see 2 probably reasons for the blocking change. The first is CPJ put a tag in on the play to change up how it is blocked. The second is more tricky to see and has to due with how CPJ counts. Before we proceed the blocking for the play side A back is to block number 3 as you count out from the 4i on the play side. What make it worse is that it is not always a pre snap read. The A back sometime does not know for sure when the ball is snapped. On play 8 I can see one of the corners is up in press coverage and are in front of the position of the SS or what you call the outside linebacker, same difference. I kinda have to guess the other one is as well because I cannot see him. Play 6 the corners are off approx. 8 yards and are behind the outside linebackers. This means who is number 3, who the a back is supposed to be different and. So the direction of where 3 can come from would be different so possibly by rule the blocking could be automatically changed. As alentrekin said its probably just a tag but honestly no of us really knows unless we find out what was called in the huddle. Not that we should stop trying to guess.