The End of College Sports As We Know It

[Root4GT]

The A&M $18Billion endowment is across the entire Texas A&M system which includes 11 universities. College Station obviously is the bulk of that, but they also have 73,000 total students, and 57,000 undergrads on campus. Tech has 48k students but less than 20k are undergrads, and a huge chunk of the graduate population are online students. The 2 are not even comparable. Just the undergraduate population at Texas A&M is larger than the capacity of Bobby Dodd Stadium. The cultures of the schools and their students are entirely different.

Did Manziel move the needle at A&M? Maybe. After he won the Heisman in 2012 A&M has failed to reach 10 wins again. They’ve paid a lot of money for very little results. In today’s era of college football having somebody like Manziel on your team would cost millions of dollars per year. Do you really think Tech can play in that market? Carson Beck is supposedly demanding $4M, he’s not even close to bringing a Manziel level of hype. For football to truly move the needle at Tech ever again we have to beat UGA more than we lose to them, and given the current environment I don’t think that’s possible. Their football budget is higher than our entire athletic department.

Beck isn’t going to get anything close to $4M. There are 20 QBs that can replace him easily for 10% of that number.

 

[stinger78]

They were in the SEC when they won 11 games and Manziel won the Heisman in 2012.
But also, are you saying that joining a conference that pays out more money doesn’t automatically make your athletic programs more competitive? Because some on this board think Tech would be better off in the B1G where we get dwarfed financially, than in the ACC where we’re relatively even.

Yes, since that year. They did well their first season.

Yes, I am, even a program like TAMU. Buyer beware. The same 10-12 programs have been in the BCS/CFP since 1999 (25 years) except for the occasional interloper.

BCS appearances by team: FSU (4), OU (4), Alabama (3), LSU (3), Ohio State (3), Florida (2), Auburn (2), Miami (2), Texas (2), USC (2), UT (1), Nebraska (1), ND (1), Oregon (1), VPI (1).
CFP appearances by team: Alabama (8), Clemson (6), Ohio State (5), OU (4), Michigan (3), UGAg (3), Washington (2), ND (2), FSU (1), MSU (1), Cincy (1), Texas (1), LSU (1), Oregon (1), TCU (1).

1. Alabama - 11
2. Oklahoma - 8
3. Ohio State - 8
4. Clemson - 6
5. FSU - 5
6. LSU - 4
7. Texas - 3
8. UGAg - 3
9. Michigan - 3
10. ND - 3

The rest have 1 or 2 visits in 25 years.

 

[orientalnc]

Yes, since that year. They did well their first season.

Yes, I am, even a program like TAMU. Buyer beware. The same 10-12 programs have been in the BCS/CFP since 1999 (25 years) except for the occasional interloper.

BCS appearances by team: FSU (4), OU (4), Alabama (3), LSU (3), Ohio State (3), Florida (2), Auburn (2), Miami (2), Texas (2), USC (2), UT (1), Nebraska (1), ND (1), Oregon (1), VPI (1).
CFP appearances by team: Alabama (8), Clemson (6), Ohio State (5), OU (4), Michigan (3), UGAg (3), Washington (2), ND (2), FSU (1), MSU (1), Cincy (1), Texas (1), LSU (1), Oregon (1), TCU (1).

1. Alabama - 11
2. Oklahoma - 8
3. Ohio State - 8
4. Clemson - 6
5. FSU - 5
6. LSU - 4
7. Texas - 3
8. UGAg - 3
9. Michigan - 3
10. ND - 3

The rest have 1 or 2 visits in 25 years.

I think the more than 80% of D1 schools that are not on this list would be happy if there was a realistic chance at being in the expanded CFP once every 25 years. But that is not possible wiith the current inequality in CFB.

 

[LongforDodd]

Ivy League schools are not allowed to offer athletic scholarships.

Who is not allowing? Don't they choose not to but offer need based financial aid to every student.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Who is not allowing? Don't they choose not to but offer need based financial aid to every student.

The conference. To be a member of the Ivy League Athletic Conference they have to abide by their conference rules, which does not allow for athletic scholarships.

 

[a5ehren]

Yeah. They totally don't offer "athletic scholarships", but just so happen to recruit athletes that otherwise wouldn't sniff their (actual, not stated) admissions bar and then give them very generous "need-based" scholarships.

 

[beeteam]

TAMU joined the SEC in 2012. That is why they have not reached 10+ wins since that first season, although they did go 9-1 in 2020 in the covid shortened season.

SEC koolaid. Missouri did not take a step back in its first few seasons in the SEC. Didn't they win the SEC East a couple of times early on?

 

[IEEEWreck]

The conference. To be a member of the Ivy League Athletic Conference they have to abide by their conference rules, which does not allow for athletic scholarships.

Which, while a fascinating philosophical and semantic distinction, lacks substantial meaning on the question of football performance when you can offer full ride need based scholarships to every student.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Yeah. They totally don't offer "athletic scholarships", but just so happen to recruit athletes that otherwise wouldn't sniff their (actual, not stated) admissions bar and then give them very generous "need-based" scholarships.

Do you have proof of this? Link?

Sports is not a central part of their identity. They determined long ago to walk away from what modern college sports was becoming, and good for them.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Ivy League is FCS, not DIII.

Correct. But, the Ivys still don't allow athletic scholarships. They do whatever the hell they want and don't care what anyone says. Several are not even accredited. They're above such trivialities.

 

[orientalnc]

Correct. But, the Ivys still don't allow athletic scholarships. They do whatever the hell they want and don't care what anyone says. Several are not even accredited. They're above such trivialities.

All eight Ivy League schools are accredited. Being accredited is not trivial.

Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown are accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education (NECHE)
Cornell, Columbia, Penn and Princeton are accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education

Georgia Tech is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC)

 

[forensicbuzz]

All eight Ivy League schools are accredited. Being accredited is not trivial.

Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown are accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education (NECHE)
Cornell, Columbia, Penn and Princeton are accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education

Georgia Tech is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC)

Pretty sure I read somewhere quite recently that one...maybe it's MIT. Wait, I didn't read it, I was talking to two ABET auditors at an NCEES examination committee meeting in October. Maybe it's MIT that's not accredited. Hell, I don't remember.

 

[orientalnc]

Pretty sure I read somewhere quite recently that one...maybe it's MIT. Wait, I didn't read it, I was talking to two ABET auditors at an NCEES examination committee meeting in October. Maybe it's MIT that's not accredited. Hell, I don't remember.

Two things. First, MIT is indeed accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education. Second, MIT is not in the Ivy League.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Two things. First, MIT is indeed accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education. Second, MIT is not in the Ivy League.

yeah, I looked it up. Not all degrees are accredited though. Read my post and then realize I realized and changed my comment.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Yes, since that year. They did well their first season.

Yes, I am, even a program like TAMU. Buyer beware. The same 10-12 programs have been in the BCS/CFP since 1999 (25 years) except for the occasional interloper.

BCS appearances by team: FSU (4), OU (4), Alabama (3), LSU (3), Ohio State (3), Florida (2), Auburn (2), Miami (2), Texas (2), USC (2), UT (1), Nebraska (1), ND (1), Oregon (1), VPI (1).
CFP appearances by team: Alabama (8), Clemson (6), Ohio State (5), OU (4), Michigan (3), UGAg (3), Washington (2), ND (2), FSU (1), MSU (1), Cincy (1), Texas (1), LSU (1), Oregon (1), TCU (1).

1. Alabama - 11
2. Oklahoma - 8
3. Ohio State - 8
4. Clemson - 6
5. FSU - 5
6. LSU - 4
7. Texas - 3
8. UGAg - 3
9. Michigan - 3
10. ND - 3

The rest have 1 or 2 visits in 25 years.

There is a pretty conclusive, just my eyeballing it, list of truly elite factories. I would add Washington and Notre Dame to make 12. I am sure there would be a handful of others with the finances and the year in and year out talent to be at the cool kids' table of football royalty. Auburn? USC? Tennessee? Penn State? Iowa? IIWII

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

This is a quibble and your point is valid, but …I played at a Div 3 school. Same restriction. Out of our starting 22, 15 had played at Div 1 schools and transferred in. They were either too small or too slow or both. All of them had scholarships. Academic scholarships and none of them full boat, but scholarships nonetheless.

Our assistant pastor played at Birmingham Southern. Smart, articulate, talented in leading church services. He played defensive end at 6'2'' 240 lbs or so. Fast but not quick enough or big enough. He did not get any scholarship money of any kind. I asked him if there were any players on his team good enough for FBS/Division II. He said they had a running back that was really quick with more gears than a 16 wheeler but he just was not big enough at 5'6" 180lbs or so. He enjoyed college ball more so than high school. FWIW.

 

[Bogey]

My department (ChE) head called a meeting with all the students and told us the department could lose its accreditation but if so, not to worry, it would have no affect on us getting a job. He told that the accreditation board wanted the department to have more liberal arts and less technical classes to priduce more well rounded engineers and he told them nobody wants to hire a well rounded engineer with a short radius. Turned out the accreditation board backed down.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

All eight Ivy League schools are accredited. Being accredited is not trivial.

Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown are accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education (NECHE)
Cornell, Columbia, Penn and Princeton are accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education

Georgia Tech is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC)

Having been through the accreditation process when I was employed by a college I can vouch for the process being no joke.

 

[B Lifsey]

yeah, I looked it up. Not all degrees are accredited though. Read my post and then realize I realized and changed my comment.

There are 2 types of accreditation - regional and program. Regional accreditation like SACSCOC and NECHE accreditation is for the whole institution and not any individual program. ABET is a program accreditor for individual programs within an institution.

 

[stinger78]

There are 2 types of accreditation - regional and program. Regional accreditation like SACSCOC and NECHE accreditation is for the whole institution and not any individual program. ABET is a program accreditor for individual programs within an institution.

This. Regional accreditation is for the entire school, not a major, department, or division. I was Dir. of Operations once upon a time for an external studies division of a small university. One of my responsibilities was to maintain the quality metrics necessary for accreditation, and I had to address their “recommendations” at the 10-year review. Talk about a headache! Thorough ? Yes. Pain in the butt! yes!