The crux of the matter

TheSilasSonRising

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3rd down is the "make or break" part of the game. Both on O and D (to me moreso on D).

As of now, it appears we rank 125th in the NCAA. Our opponent is gaining a 1st down on 3rd & whatever 49% of the time!

A team can not survive this over a period of time.

Does not matter if it is a HC problem, Asst coach problem, player problem, academic problem, uni problem, band not playing problem, mascot problem, or weather problem.

It has got to be fixed and soon - very soon.
 
AE 87

AE 87

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TheSilasSonRising said:
3rd down is the "make or break" part of the game. Both on O and D (to me moreso on D).

As of now, it appears we rank 125th in the NCAA. Our opponent is gaining a 1st down on 3rd & whatever 49% of the time!

A team can not survive this over a period of time.

Does not matter if it is a HC problem, Asst coach problem, player problem, academic problem, uni problem, band not playing problem, mascot problem, or weather problem.

It has got to be fixed and soon - very soon.
Click to expand...

Pretty much exactly what CPJ said after the last game.
 

sidewalkGTfan

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While 3rd down may be the "make or break" part of the game, a significant portion of that problem is the yards we are giving up on 1st and 2nd down. GSU had several 3rd and shorts on Saturday.
 

JKMSJ

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sidewalkGTfan said:
While 3rd down may be the "make or break" part of the game, a significant portion of that problem is the yards we are giving up on 1st and 2nd down. GSU had several 3rd and shorts on Saturday.
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That's true they did convert 3rd and short but they also made it look pretty easy on 3rd and long too. I know this sounds crazy but I like our chances better if it is 3rd and 2 as opposed to 3rd and 8. We sometimes stuff the run but a short pass over the middle on 3rd and 8 is almost automatic unless the QB makes a bad throw.
 

takethepoints

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So let me get this straight. Some of you don't think Coach has been trying to address D problems for, literally, years?

Well, I think I can say with confidence that he knows the problems - he was a DC, remember? - and has been trying to get things under control for virtually his entire tenure here. The root of the problem, as I'm sure he'd tell you, is our DL and recruiting for same. The root of that problem, in turn, is at DT. We've had trouble, until recently, finding decent talent in depth for that position. Some of that is luck; we took some risks that didn't work out in the long term. Part of it is players deciding to move on or not working out; the picture would be a lot different today if the Great DL Departure of 2014 hadn't happened. All of this should be remembered; it isn't that the staff hasn't been trying.

Our present underclassmen and some of the class coming in will do a lot to remedy the difficulty, given a year or two more development. We can't expect instant improvement here, however.
 

TheSilasSonRising

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takethepoints said:
So let me get this straight. Some of you don't think Coach has been trying to address D problems for, literally, years?

Well, I think I can say with confidence that he knows the problems - he was a DC, remember? - and has been trying to get things under control for virtually his entire tenure here. The root of the problem, as I'm sure he'd tell you, is our DL and recruiting for same. The root of that problem, in turn, is at DT. We've had trouble, until recently, finding decent talent in depth for that position. Some of that is luck; we took some risks that didn't work out in the long term. Part of it is players deciding to move on or not working out; the picture would be a lot different today if the Great DL Departure of 2014 hadn't happened. All of this should be remembered; it isn't that the staff hasn't been trying.

Our present underclassmen and some of the class coming in will do a lot to remedy the difficulty, given a year or two more development. We can't expect instant improvement here, however.
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Jeepers, yes he has been trying to address it for years.

And where are we still?

Some of you guys would be great to work for. No expectations of results.
 
AE 87

AE 87

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Last year, we were #43.
In 2014, we were #114.
In 2013, we were #34.

Under Groh:
In 2012, we were #71
In 2011, we were #83
In 2010, we were #52

Under Wommack:
In 2009, we were #82
In 2008, we were #57

So, our two best years and our two worst years by this measure have occurred under our current DC. How do you draw conclusions from this stat?
 
ibeattetris

ibeattetris

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AE 87 said:
So, our two best years and our two worst years by this measure have occurred under our current DC. How do you draw conclusions from this stat?
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By closing your eyes and yelling loudly.

I'd be interested to see how this stat has progressed pre-CPJ to current.
 
Jmonty71

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AE 87 said:
Last year, we were #43.
In 2014, we were #114.
In 2013, we were #34.

Under Groh:
In 2012, we were #71
In 2011, we were #83
In 2010, we were #52

Under Wommack:
In 2009, we were #82
In 2008, we were #57

So, our two best years and our two worst years by this measure have occurred under our current DC. How do you draw conclusions from this stat?
Click to expand...

Did you get your stats off overall defense, points scored or what? How about going to the stats that EVERY true football man knows? YPP. (Yards per play) Go ahead and look those up.

When our offense is controlling the TOP, of course, our overall defense will look great. When the offense looks bad, you get a TRUE picture of what our defense is. Before you go beating your chest, get the facts, that most coaches and football pros know. We can rank in the 40s all we want. However; when we rank 74th in YPP, that 40 something overall means jack nothing. Add to that, everyone pays attention to 3rd down conversion rate. Teams that can get the other team's offense off the field. How many punts did we force this year? How many punts did we force last weekend? These are all concerns that need to be addressed.
 
AE 87

AE 87

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Jmonty71 said:
Did you get your stats off overall defense, points scored or what? How about going to the stats that EVERY true football man knows? YPP. (Yards per play) Go ahead and look those up.

When our offense is controlling the TOP, of course, our overall defense will look great. When the offense looks bad, you get a TRUE picture of what our defense is. Before you go beating your chest, get the facts, that most coaches and football pros know. We can rank in the 40s all we want. However; when we rank 74th in YPP, that 40 something overall means jack nothing. Add to that, everyone pays attention to 3rd down conversion rate. Teams that can get the other team's offense off the field. How many punts did we force this year? How many punts did we force last weekend? These are all concerns that need to be addressed.
Click to expand...

Oorah

This thread began with ref to opponent 3rd down conversion ranking this year. I posted the ranking for the same stat from past years.

It's important to read posts within the context of their thread.
 
Jmonty71

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YPP should be taken in effect. This is the main reason why the 3rd down conversion is so poor. That's all I was saying.
 
Vespidae

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TheSilasSonRising said:
3rd down is the "make or break" part of the game. Both on O and D (to me moreso on D).
Click to expand...
Interesting thread.

I read a coach's quote (I'll dig it up in a minute) that said that statistically, there's no difference between a three and out and a six and out. So a lot of coaches, while they want and would like a three and out, don't get too stressed out if they move the chains twice.

The problem is, as the team approaches the forty ... they open the offense up and then it gets really interesting.

I would rather see coaches focus on three and out. I think that's the best measure of defensive efficiency there is ... How many three and outs did we get?
 
Boomergump

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I would be interested to know what our 3rd down conversion rate on defense is for 5 yards to go and greater. Yes we have had a good deal of 3rd and shorts, but if I were to guess, we are not faring too well in the plus 5 yards to go stat either.
 
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