The "Collins effect "........

B Lifsey

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,379
Location
Barnesville, Georgia
I could wrap some quotes with [ s p o i l e r ] tags when I reply. I’d have to guess when a lot of people might be ignoring someone, but I think I can guess pretty well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Please don’t do anything extra like that...I was meaning it would be nice if the board software would handle hiding messages if an ignored member is quoted.
 

strong90

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
203
....the fact is there are 39 4 or 5 star players in the state of Ga and 26 claim to have offers from us.....
....it appears we deemed roughly 2/3rds of this elite group of in state players to be qualified to handle the academic rigors..../QUOTE]


Your argument is flawed. A scholarship offer does not mean they are academically qualified.

I don't question your assertion that we offered that many, but no way in hell, two-thirds of the very best athletes in Ga have the academic chops to get accepted and make it at Tech. Those numbers defy reason. Heck, most geeks don't get in.

You've read this before but chosen to ignore it: all offers are conditional, based on continued (or future) academic performance in high school. Most will never come to fruition because the kid doesn't take the courses required to get into Tech or demonstrate a likelihood of success.

So, cut the crap and stop the nonsensical assertion that academics aren't a part of it
.
 
Last edited:

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104

Sure academics are apart of our challenge. We just lost a lb out of Cordele due to this. We usually lose 1 or 2 every year in this manner. The fact still remains that if we are signing 0% of those qualified it’s really silly blaming our issues on academics.
 

strong90

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
203
Sure academics are apart of our challenge. We just lost a lb out of Cordele due to this. We usually lose 1 or 2 every year in this manner. The fact still remains that if we are signing 0% of those qualified it’s really silly blaming our issues on academics.
how can you say we are signing 0% of those qualified when you don't know how many are actually qualified?
 

strong90

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
203
Do you believe none are qualified?
You're the one throwing numbers around, cowboy. You've asserted that 66% of the four and five stars are qualified to get in. I challenge that assertion.
Neither of us will know the correct answer because a high school kid's grades aren't something we're privy to.
However, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say somewhere around 10%.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,916
The following is my understanding. If I am wrong at any point, please correct me by highlighting which point is in error and why.

1. GT currently does very well in APR and supporting our scholarship athletes toward an increasing graduation rate.

2. When CPJ arrived the APR was not fully (including with penalties) implemented, and the graduation rate was less than 50%.

3. During our very good years under CGO, there was a grade point requirement that allowed some SAs to take easier classes that did not necessarily advance them toward a degree.

4. Under both CGO and early CCG, we failed to live up fully to requirements, for some reason.

5. CPJ and staff have recruited as well CCG apart from 2007 class.

6. In retrospect, we don't know how well CGO classes would have done under current APR, but we know that there was a problem even under the standard at that time.

7. So, any reference to recruiting under the pre-APR era need to explain why this difference doesn't matter.

8. And, we should be up front with the value we place on winning vs supporting each SA.
Well here goes the first response to your well reasoned post.
All after u and before this never addressed for request for specific comments on your numbered points of fact and conclusion as well as your request (point 8) that we be real in our value of winning verses academic compliance ( I changed to academic compliance (ncaa GR) verses supporting the SA) .

.boy these guys love to just fight.

1. We r doing well. At a recent press conf or interview Tstan said "Coach is graduating his players at 86% rate. I confirmed that rate in the NCAA graduation data base for gt football 2011.
If this NCAA data is not the right one let me know.
Agree we are doing very good compared to past and a number of others to be named after this point. We are way behind ND , Stanford, BC, Duke.
WE ARE WAY AHEAD OF uga WHO IS AT 58%.
Imo , to be at that level after the requirement for progress w penalties started in 05 is Disgraceful and Bordering Exploitive. See numbers after gt

Gt football and Gt bb below
School
year %

Gtfb
02-49%,04-55%,06-63%,08-78%,10-82%, 11-86%
Gtbb
02-38%,04-27%,06-40%,08-50%,10-80%, 11-78%
Looks like at gt both FB and BB started up dramatically at about 05.
I ask - if both fb and bb are both going up isnt that the AD laying down the law?

I ask - did Gailey have anything to do w the the fb numbers shown above or did this uptick all happen on Coaches watch..

Whoever or whatever it is, our numbers are way up!!.

I would like for us to get to 100 but there is that diminishing returns thing as u approach perfection. (8)

At my company we got engineering work because we never quit on any job (lost$$ on some ). Clients valued that certainty of completion ( we had good 4 star manager type running projects).
I THINK THE IMPROVEMENT IN GR has helped in recent recruiting and as word spreads nation wide it will pay hugh dividends in future.
The old "I got out" is still hard to do.
BUT Now it's more like a a football recruit thinks:
"If I get into gt, there is a 35% % better chance of getting a great degree there than getting a "so so" degree at uga!"
Uga
02-??,04-65%,06-82%,08-73%,10-53%,11-58%. THEY ARE GOING DOWN ! Pitiful.

I have no idea about Oleary and could careless about it.

What do we do now?
1. Recruit very conservatively and go for over 90% and hold there while we wait from impact of high GR to make us more like ND?
2. Recruit more liberally but stay near 80% while we get better athletes.
3 . Double the tutorial budget , go to 100% while getting better players now?

If tstan told GC
1. he was going to double tutorial budget,
2. but GC has to put hammer on players ( no more it is what it is),
3 he can have liberalization on commits.
GC , like a 40000 hp gas turbine, would need over speed control.

Thanks to Coach gailey , Coach, and the Past AD s for putting GC in a position to win

Looking forward to your comments..
Sorry for any grammar issues.
 

strong90

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
203
Well here goes the first response to your well reasoned post.
All after u and before this never addressed for request for specific comments on your numbered points of fact and conclusion as well as your request (point 8) that we be real in our value of winning verses academic compliance ( I changed to academic compliance (ncaa GR) verses supporting the SA) .

.boy these guys love to just fight.

1. We r doing well. At a recent press conf or interview Tstan said "Coach is graduating his players at 86% rate. I confirmed that rate in the NCAA graduation data base for gt football 2011.
If this NCAA data is not the right one let me know.
Agree we are doing very good compared to past and a number of others to be named after this point. We are way behind ND , Stanford, BC, Duke.
WE ARE WAY AHEAD OF uga WHO IS AT 58%.
Imo , to be at that level after the requirement for progress w penalties started in 05 is Disgraceful and Bordering Exploitive. See numbers after gt

Gt football and Gt bb below
School
year %

Gtfb
02-49%,04-55%,06-63%,08-78%,10-82%, 11-86%
Gtbb
02-38%,04-27%,06-40%,08-50%,10-80%, 11-78%
Looks like at gt both FB and BB started up dramatically at about 05.
I ask - if both fb and bb are both going up isnt that the AD laying down the law?

I ask - did Gailey have anything to do w the the fb numbers shown above or did this uptick all happen on Coaches watch..

Whoever or whatever it is, our numbers are way up!!.

I would like for us to get to 100 but there is that diminishing returns thing as u approach perfection. (8)

At my company we got engineering work because we never quit on any job (lost$$ on some ). Clients valued that certainty of completion ( we had good 4 star manager type running projects).
I THINK THE IMPROVEMENT IN GR has helped in recent recruiting and as word spreads nation wide it will pay hugh dividends in future.
The old "I got out" is still hard to do.
BUT Now it's more like a a football recruit thinks:
"If I get into gt, there is a 35% % better chance of getting a great degree there than getting a "so so" degree at uga!"
Uga
02-??,04-65%,06-82%,08-73%,10-53%,11-58%. THEY ARE GOING DOWN ! Pitiful.

I have no idea about Oleary and could careless about it.

What do we do now?
1. Recruit very conservatively and go for over 90% and hold there while we wait from impact of high GR to make us more like ND?
2. Recruit more liberally but stay near 80% while we get better athletes.
3 . Double the tutorial budget , go to 100% while getting better players now?

If tstan told GC
1. he was going to double tutorial budget,
2. but GC has to put hammer on players ( no more it is what it is),
3 he can have liberalization on commits.
GC , like a 40000 hp gas turbine, would need over speed control.

Thanks to Coach gailey , Coach, and the Past AD s for putting GC in a position to win

Looking forward to your comments..
Sorry for any grammar issues.

Great. Informative post. Good stuff. Thanks for the data.
One observation: ND, Stanford, BC, Duke....all private schools with much more leeway on how they report. Also, when my son was being recruited by Duke (academics), we were told that he was guaranteed to get out in 4 with A's and B's. They viewed admission as the qualifier and assumed everybody there was an A student. They said they didn't want kids to go over 4 because they understood the impact of tuition on families. All that translates into a very high APR.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,015
Well here goes the first response to your well reasoned post.
All after u and before this never addressed for request for specific comments on your numbered points of fact and conclusion as well as your request (point 8) that we be real in our value of winning verses academic compliance ( I changed to academic compliance (ncaa GR) verses supporting the SA) .

.boy these guys love to just fight.

1. We r doing well. At a recent press conf or interview Tstan said "Coach is graduating his players at 86% rate. I confirmed that rate in the NCAA graduation data base for gt football 2011.
If this NCAA data is not the right one let me know.
Agree we are doing very good compared to past and a number of others to be named after this point. We are way behind ND , Stanford, BC, Duke.
WE ARE WAY AHEAD OF uga WHO IS AT 58%.
Imo , to be at that level after the requirement for progress w penalties started in 05 is Disgraceful and Bordering Exploitive. See numbers after gt

Gt football and Gt bb below
School
year %

Gtfb
02-49%,04-55%,06-63%,08-78%,10-82%, 11-86%
Gtbb
02-38%,04-27%,06-40%,08-50%,10-80%, 11-78%
Looks like at gt both FB and BB started up dramatically at about 05.
I ask - if both fb and bb are both going up isnt that the AD laying down the law?

I ask - did Gailey have anything to do w the the fb numbers shown above or did this uptick all happen on Coaches watch..

Whoever or whatever it is, our numbers are way up!!.

I would like for us to get to 100 but there is that diminishing returns thing as u approach perfection. (8)

At my company we got engineering work because we never quit on any job (lost$$ on some ). Clients valued that certainty of completion ( we had good 4 star manager type running projects).
I THINK THE IMPROVEMENT IN GR has helped in recent recruiting and as word spreads nation wide it will pay hugh dividends in future.
The old "I got out" is still hard to do.
BUT Now it's more like a a football recruit thinks:
"If I get into gt, there is a 35% % better chance of getting a great degree there than getting a "so so" degree at uga!"
Uga
02-??,04-65%,06-82%,08-73%,10-53%,11-58%. THEY ARE GOING DOWN ! Pitiful.

I have no idea about Oleary and could careless about it.

What do we do now?
1. Recruit very conservatively and go for over 90% and hold there while we wait from impact of high GR to make us more like ND?
2. Recruit more liberally but stay near 80% while we get better athletes.
3 . Double the tutorial budget , go to 100% while getting better players now?

If tstan told GC
1. he was going to double tutorial budget,
2. but GC has to put hammer on players ( no more it is what it is),
3 he can have liberalization on commits.
GC , like a 40000 hp gas turbine, would need over speed control.

Thanks to Coach gailey , Coach, and the Past AD s for putting GC in a position to win

Looking forward to your comments..
Sorry for any grammar issues.

I'm not sure I understood everything you wanted to communicate (grammar issues?).

I suspect that I agree completely about your firm's ability to hire 4* project managers.
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
You're the one throwing numbers around, cowboy. You've asserted that 66% of the four and five stars are qualified to get in. I challenge that assertion.
Neither of us will know the correct answer because a high school kid's grades aren't something we're privy to.
However, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say somewhere around 10%.
Boaty's narrative he has constantly tried to sell is that CPJs O was the sole reason for failure to land top star recruits. Of course, in order to believe that you have to ignore...
1) the ability of a recruit to get accepted
2) the desire of a major that Tech offers
3) the willingness to put in the effort required to obtain the degree/ stay in school and progress toward a degree.

It is not simply one or the other.....they all work in unison against Tech.....but then, his narrative falls apart faced with reality.

The new HC will face the same hurdles.

The claim will be (and has been) made that GO and CG faced the same, except they didn't have to worry about #3.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,916
Great. Informative post. Good stuff. Thanks for the data.
One observation: ND, Stanford, BC, Duke....all private schools with much more leeway on how they report. Also, when my son was being recruited by Duke (academics), we were told that he was guaranteed to get out in 4 with A's and B's. They viewed admission as the qualifier and assumed everybody there was an A student. They said they didn't want kids to go over 4 because they understood the impact of tuition on families. All that translates into a very high APR.

That a great point about private schools. My son and his wife teach at a university (Baylor) that have the same grade guarantees for students that at least try.
My sons best philosophy student turned down Harvard to play on football team .

With that info about 90% is close enough to them.

Wonder what public schools are above us?

I am starting to get ticked at how badly uga is doing by its players .
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,916
I'm not sure I understood everything you wanted to communicate (grammar issues?).

I suspect that I agree completely about your firm's ability to hire 4* project managers.
Last point - U got it. Some 4* r rough around the edges. But they got it done.

Do u agree that some of up tick in GR was on Gailey with most on Coach?

Would you accept a 10% drop off in GR as we try to get better talent?
 
Messages
140
You're the one throwing numbers around, cowboy. You've asserted that 66% of the four and five stars are qualified to get in. I challenge that assertion.
Neither of us will know the correct answer because a high school kid's grades aren't something we're privy to.
However, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say somewhere around 10%.

You can't have it both ways

Once you give the HC and not the Academic support Staff credit for raising APR & Grad rates, then you have to trust that HC's judgment

CPJ offered these players during their Sr yr, unless something crazy happened, CPJ expected them to pass the Hill, get accepted and be able to graduate from GT

CPJ offered 26 of the 39, if you're gonna applaud him for APR and Grad rate then trust his judgment that they would qualify

GT Fans never wants to scapegoat the school, the Alums or the Coaches WRT recruiting, so the narrative becomes our BS in Business Degree is so hard that it scares away talented recruits or that talented recruits are lazy and just want waste time until they are draft eligible

This is a load of crap
 
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