The "Collins effect "........

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Good deal. I feel the same about many of the excuses I hear on a consistent basis from many on this board in particular. Quit buying into nonsense about the program we both claim to support and I won't have to refute it.

I quote the following

I noticed that you are choosing to ignore the posts on this same page regarding academic exceptions and APR. Is there something relevant to those points that us nonsensical people are unaware of that you are privy to that makes those points moot, or are you choosing to ignore them because they don’t fit your narrative? Please enlighten us.

 

[Boaty1]

APR didn't exist in those days. All the player had to do was keep his GPA over a 2.0 and he was eligible until he used his 4 years. We had guys who used their eligibility up and were no where close to graduating; not what we want from our student athletes but it was real. How many of the stars from O'Leary's classes actually got degrees?

Today, a kid has to pick a major and actually make progress towards his degree in order to stay eligible. Back when Ross, BL and O'Leary were here, the kid had to pass the easiest classes in the entire school for 4 years and then he was done whether he got a degree or not. Some good players came through thinking they were NFL bound and were good players, but today's world is different than it was back in early Chan days and back.

It doesn't feed some narratives on here, but it's real.

Do you have any data supporting your claim that this is a significant hindrance to GT? Everything I have seen has shown GT is near the top of the conference annually in terms of APR. If that is the case I fail to understand the significance some people on here place on APR. Believe me, I'm not trying to drive a narrative. I'm simply trying to look at facts and ignore group think.

 

[Boaty1]

I noticed that you are choosing to ignore the posts on this same page regarding academic exceptions and APR. Is there something relevant to those points that us nonsensical people are unaware of that you are privy to that makes those points moot, or are you choosing to ignore them because they don’t fit your narrative? Please enlighten us.

Not ignored at all. Please see above. Thanks. I look forward to your response.

 

[Towaliga]

Madison, you have some valid points. However, when it comes to academic exceptions, the Walmart training center in Athens isn’t the only school that uses them that we are competing against. You would also have to look at Miami, Florida State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, and pretty much every other P5 school out there with only a couple of exceptions.

Having said that, I will admit to all that I am a CPJ fan and think he did a good job at GT and will be missed. However, I am also excited about the direction the program is heading under CGC and look forward to next year. I am not taking a stance of I will wait and see. I will be optimistic and supporting the team no matter what, and I’m just a lowly sidewalk fan. Just because you are CPJ fan doesn’t mean you’re not a CGC supporter as well.

 

[Towaliga]

Not ignored at all. Please see above. Thanks. I look forward to your response.

I looked, and I didn’t see anything about academic exceptions. All I saw was you wanting proof regarding APR. You then state that Tech is at the top of the conference with regards to APR. That is the point that others are trying to make. Tech currently emphasizes APR more so than some schools (especially schools we are recruiting against that are outside the conference, but some inside the conference as well) and has to focus primarily on those that aren’t exceptions. There is no small disconnect between the fact that our major in state recruiting competitor not only has almost 20 times the number of academic exceptions, but also ranks next to last in P5 graduation rate while we are in the top four, sometimes top two.

 

[Animal02]

Madison, you have some valid points. However, when it comes to academic exceptions, the Walmart training center in Athens isn’t the only school that uses them that we are competing against. You would also have to look at Miami, Florida State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, and pretty much every other P5 school out there with only a couple of exceptions.

Having said that, I will admit to all that I am a CPJ fan and think he did a good job at GT and will be missed. However, I am also excited about the direction the program is heading under CGC and look forward to next year. I am not taking a stance of I will wait and see. I will be optimistic and supporting the team no matter what, and I’m just a lowly sidewalk fan. Just because you are CPJ fan doesn’t mean you’re not a CGC supporter as well.

And just because you are skeptical of the claims of magical powers of the new HC (by posters here) doesn't mean you don't support the team and the HC

 

[Towaliga]

Boaty, I noticed you liked my last post even though I was refuting your posts. That’s what I appreciate about this site vs others. We can be passionate about our beliefs and disagree about many things (especially the ones you are obviously wrong about ), but we can still be civil. There are only a few on here thank i think are obviously clueless (aka ig’nunt) that really pi** me off Example of this is the recent troller that I won’t name (but his initials are NtTomNtPhilGCollins)

 

[Boaty1]

I looked, and I didn’t see anything about academic exceptions. All I saw was you wanting proof regarding APR. You then state that Tech is at the top of the conference with regards to APR. that is the point that others are trying to make. Tech currently emphasizes APR more so than some schools (especially schools we are recruiting against that are outside the conference) and has to focus primarily on those that aren’t exceptions. There is no small disconnect between the fact that our major in state recruiting competitor not only has almost 20 times the number of academic exceptions, but also ranks next to last in P5 graduation rate while we are in the top four, sometimes top two.

Thanks for the response. A couple of thoughts. For one I don't set my expectations for GT based off anything UGA does. Any comparison with them is apples to oranges on many levels.

As far as academic exceptions go I believe you are correct in GT is not taking as many as they used to. The question then goes to how much of an affect is this having on our recent classes? What percentage of recruits does this eliminate from consideration at GT? The fact is there are 39 4 or 5 star players in the state of Ga and 26 claim to have offers from us. A few of the 39 are drop back qb's that just wouldn't fit into Johnson's offense so we aren't sure of their academic status. Regardless, it appears we deemed roughly 2/3rds of this elite group of in state players to be qualified to handle the academic rigors at GT. Out of these 26 players we believe academically equipped we have zero commitments. While in the past we have never signed as many of these prospects as our larger competitors, we have signed these players at a higher percentage than the Johnson staff ever achieved. There are probably numerous factors for this but I am of the opinion that Johnson's offense and his personality were limiting factors in recruiting.

Our program has recruited better than what Johnson did. That is just a cold hard fact. We can debate the reasons why that was the case but we can't deny others before him recruited better.

 

[slugboy]

Madison, you have some valid points. However, when it comes to academic exceptions, the Walmart training center in Athens isn’t the only school that uses them that we are competing against. You would also have to look at Miami, Florida State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, and pretty much every other P5 school out there with only a couple of exceptions.

Having said that, I will admit to all that I am a CPJ fan and think he did a good job at GT and will be missed. However, I am also excited about the direction the program is heading under CGC and look forward to next year. I am not taking a stance of I will wait and see. I will be optimistic and supporting the team no matter what, and I’m just a lowly sidewalk fan. Just because you are CPJ fan doesn’t mean you’re not a CGC supporter as well.

Michael Irvin has said the only thing he ever studied at Miami was "anatomy".

 

[UgaBlows]

The correct thing would be to switch to water for the rest of your life

Ftfy

 

[MikeJacket1967]

Ftfy

Or switch to O'Doul's

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

A ton of group think in this post that is simply not supported by fact. To start with the curriculum angle is overplayed as a reason for our recruiting struggles. Past coaches such as O’Leary overcame them with the almost the exact same curriculum challenge. We know by his success that this can and has been overcome.

When you say Johnson matched his predecessors in recruiting rankings what you really mean is he matched Gailey. And if you take away Gailey’s 07 class that is correct. But that ignores the fact that Gailey was a notoriously poor recruiter who took a ton of heat for the significant drop in recruiting compared to O’Leary. Ross and even Lewis had some really solid classes prior to O’Leary. While GT does face some unique challenges, the curriculum angle is significantly overblown when it is used to explain Johnson’s poor recruiting because other coaches have overcome this exact challenge better than Johnson was able to.

I know many are tired of hearing these arguments, but I don’t think we as a fanbase should buy into these negative stereotypes that when studied closely are based in nothing more than half truths.

Please don’t quote my posts if you aren’t speaking toward them at all in your own post. That’s just trolling needlessly.

 

[Boaty1]

Please don’t quote my posts if you aren’t speaking toward them at all in your own post. That’s just trolling needlessly.

Sorry. It was an accident. I had no intentions of trolling.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Sorry. It was an accident. I had no intentions of trolling.

Gotcha. No sweat, been there done that. And I usually don’t recognize it until it’s too late to edit stuff out.

 

[AE 87]

The following is my understanding. If I am wrong at any point, please correct me by highlighting which point is in error and why.

1. GT currently does very well in APR and supporting our scholarship athletes toward an increasing graduation rate.

2. When CPJ arrived the APR was not fully (including with penalties) implemented, and the graduation rate was less than 50%.

3. During our very good years under CGO, there was a grade point requirement that allowed some SAs to take easier classes that did not necessarily advance them toward a degree.

4. Under both CGO and early CCG, we failed to live up fully to requirements, for some reason.

5. CPJ and staff have recruited as well CCG apart from 2007 class.

6. In retrospect, we don't know how well CGO classes would have done under current APR, but we know that there was a problem even under the standard at that time.

7. So, any reference to recruiting under the pre-APR era need to explain why this difference doesn't matter.

8. And, we should be up front with the value we place on winning vs supporting each SA.

 

[Gold1]

The following is my understanding. If I am wrong at any point, please correct me by highlighting which point is in error and why.

1. GT currently does very well in APR and supporting our scholarship athletes toward an increasing graduation rate.

2. When CPJ arrived the APR was not fully (including with penalties) implemented, and the graduation rate was less than 50%.

3. During our very good years under CGO, there was a grade point requirement that allowed some SAs to take easier classes that did not necessarily advance them toward a degree.

4. Under both CGO and early CCG, we failed to live up fully to requirements, for some reason.

5. CPJ and staff have recruited as well CCG apart from 2007 class.

6. In retrospect, we don't know how well CGO classes would have done under current APR, but we know that there was a problem even under the standard at that time.

7. So, any reference to recruiting under the pre-APR era need to explain why this difference doesn't matter.

8. And, we should be up front with the value we place on winning vs supporting each SA.

Compare the PLAYERS under Gaileys teams to Paul Johnson's and you will see Gailey recruited much better. Not talking about rankings. Gailey recruited way better talent

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Compare the PLAYERS under Gaileys teams to Paul Johnson's and you will see Gailey recruited much better. Not talking about rankings. Gailey recruited way better talent

It’s gonna take 4 more years to judge that completely. After that we can start judging how well CGC performs without CPJ recruits.

 

[ibeattetris]

Compare the PLAYERS under Gaileys teams to Paul Johnson's and you will see Gailey recruited much better. Not talking about rankings. Gailey recruited way better talent

I saw someone post this on another board.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BI7K0oKXyYRfRBBS7FAxTZcpa2PRJDQGoB4Cx_-v24w

There is a table "recruited vs coached".
Gailey recruited and sent 9 players to the pros.
He recruited 11 other players that Johnson sent to the pros.

Johnson recruited and sent 17 players to the pros, not including anyone on this year's roster obviously.

So of just the recruited and sent to the pros, CCG had 9 in 6 years or 1.5 a year. CPJ had 17 in 11 or 1.54.

With the additional 11 that CPJ sent from CCG's classes
we get 20 in 6 or 3.33.

This would mean of the remaining players, CPJ would need to send 19 players. I don't think this is going to happen, but I don't think 10-15 is unlikely. If 10 of our current roster end up in the pros that would be 2.45 per year. While less than CCG, I wouldn't call it *much* less considering I took a conservative number and considering that our highs with CPJ were much better than CCG's years.

 

[Gold1]

Great article that proves once again CPJ hurt our recruting on offense and defense
https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/...y-about-geoff-collins/oeelE24cbEcFeovOhJAqcL/

 

[Gold1]

From the Norcross Head Coach.
“The biggest thing that I think is going to help Georgia Tech now is the other schools can’t come in and say, ‘Well, you’re going to get cut (blocked) your whole career on defense,’” Maloof said. “I think that’s going to help, if Tech plays their cards right. That’s going to help Tech get that pro-style defensive player that they haven’t been able to get in recent years, especially at linebacker and D-line.”