The "Collins effect "........

[Animal02]

What are you even saying? Have we completed the funding initiative but failed to announce it? Have we renovated the edge building already? Have we spent salary money to bring in the best possible coaches already? Have we now expanded our recruiting staff to 40 paid staffers not counting volunteer student contributions?

What he is saying is the so called fans will only support Tech when they field a team they like for one reasono or another.

 

[GT_B]

Agree on principle with this, but a significant correction. It’s not the off season. We are prepping for CPJ and our graduating class’s final game.

Let’s get our minds right and welcome the newness that CGC brings, appreciate what CPJ gave us, pull for this crop of Jolly Good Fellows and hope we go out on top of the gophers who claim title of our gold.


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Lol, I understand. For me personally bowl season / practice reports don’t mean much when we are about to change the entire staff and team plan moving forward. I will definitely watch the game and want to win, but I’m not real worried about what’s going on in practice right now until CGC takes over the team and you start to see some new info.

 

[Gold1]

And another thread ruined

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Sure. When you said some are arguing that if we don’t outrecruit Clemson then we are settling for mediocrity. I have never seen that argument on here and I know I certainly haven’t made it.

I’ll attach a link explaining the straw man fallacy below because I notice you are struggling with the concept. Let me know if I can do anything else for you.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy

Now go google sarcasm and maybe you will begin to understand that post. It was in response to some who said “All we gotta do is believe we can win a natty and we will.” Or words to that affect.

Believing something can happen without doing anything to make it so will usually end in failure.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Well, my argument was AGAINST those who say CGC CAN'T make things better. You might want to go back and check the original comment you quoted from me in your reply. Now. you're saying, okay, even if he can make it better. You just moved the goalposts. I didn't change the argument. You did. Again, straw man by you. You seem to want to contend I want some unachievable level above the current program. 'Even if CGC improves things'. I never asked for beyond that, and what does that exactly look like. "Oh, you unrealistic people who think we can be team X." Stop defining my arguments. Straw man.

Who is saying CGC will fail? I haven’t seen much of that and that hasn’t been my point during this entire thread.

My point has been and will continue to be that CGC alone, without the proper backing, isn’t likely to take Tech to elite levels and keep Tech there. Some of y’all seem to think he can. That’s pretty foolish imo.

 

[Animal02]

Who is saying CGC will fail? I haven’t seen much of that and that hasn’t been my point during this entire thread.

My point has been and will continue to be that CGC alone, without the proper backing, isn’t likely to take Tech to elite levels and keep Tech there. Some of y’all seem to think he can. That’s pretty foolish imo.

Been saying the same thing. Some are just delusional. Others have a anti CPJ narrative to sell.

 

[gthxxxx]

How many threads are we going to have with the battle of CGC vs CPJ?

It’s getting so annoying like every other thread goes to that direction. If you’re happy to see Paul gone, then thank Paul for the years of service and move on. If you didn’t want to see Paul go, then support CGC now and hope he proves you wrong.

If we can’t move past it one way or another, then just stay off the board for a while. It would be the in everyone’s best interests. I know it’s the off-season and content to discuss is limited until signing day or spring ball, but this is getting ridiculous. I’m pretty sure everyone knows at this point where the same 5-10 usual suspects stand on both sides of the discussion.

Slightly nitpicking, but I think the majority of the threads and conversation is more encompassing of GT football overall.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Well, my argument was AGAINST those who say CGC CAN'T make things better. You might want to go back and check the original comment you quoted from me in your reply. Now. you're saying, okay, even if he can make it better. You just moved the goalposts. I didn't change the argument. You did. Again, straw man by you. You seem to want to contend I want some unachievable level above the current program. 'Even if CGC improves things'. I never asked for beyond that, and what does that exactly look like. "Oh, you unrealistic people who think we can be team X." Stop defining my arguments. Straw man.

And correct me if I’m wrong but I believe you were the one to first quote / reply to me in this thread with some nonsensical comparison to Ford that I asked you to clarify....because it was nonsensical to this thread unless you wanted to make the conversation about CPJ.

 

[okiemon]

Who is saying CGC will fail? I haven’t seen much of that and that hasn’t been my point during this entire thread.

My point has been and will continue to be that CGC alone, without the proper backing, isn’t likely to take Tech to elite levels and keep Tech there. Some of y’all seem to think he can. That’s pretty foolish imo.

I don’t think anyone in this forum, or any other for that matter, would say that ANY coach could take ANY school to elite levels “without the proper backing.” Not Collins, not Saban, not Smart, not nobody. Why would anyone think that?


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[Whiskey_Clear]

I don’t think anyone in this forum, or any other for that matter, would say that ANY coach could take ANY school to elite levels “without the proper backing.” Not Collins, not Saban, not Smart, not nobody. Why would anyone think that?


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Consistently winning the coastal, never losing to Duke, and beating uga 50% does in fact seem to be the bar many demand to meet. That would put us at a very high level, top 20 territory consistently. If not an elite level pretty darn close.

And not likely to happen if we don’t at least match our peers in backing / funding / spending.

 

[iceeater1969]

Consistently winning the coastal, never losing to Duke, and beating uga 50% does in fact seem to be the bar many demand to meet. That would put us at a very high level, top 20 territory consistently. If not an elite level pretty darn close.

And not likely to happen if we don’t at least match our peers in backing / funding / spending.

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

My interpretation might be incorrect, but I saw the GT football program vision under CPJ as running an unorthodox offense in order to bridge the gap in both recruiting and on the field play by focusing on different talents, strategy, and tactics than the top tier football colleges, while not compromising on higher education or going too red in the budget. I support such a vision, albeit only spiritually and not monetarily. I'm intrigued in what CGC's era will bring in the sense that change piques interest. I also await to learn what CGC's vision will be, and I hope he continues the positive trend of doing things in what I view as the "right way".

Going on a tangent, I don't think I will ever support GT football monetarily aside from adding to the viewer count for network advertisement revenue and purchasing some GT apparel (which is more because of reminiscent value and its academic/research rather than athletic appeal). That being said, I'm also not the type to support GT football no matter what. I will lose interest if GT starts going down the path of paying lip service to the academic mission in order to win football games, and that probably will also negatively color my perception of the higher ups in GT as an institution deserving of research contracts and their commitment to producing qualified engineer graduates.

If you're not going to support GT football monetarily, then IMO you have no right to complain if things go south, nor to brag if they go through the ceiling. You are. of course, welcome as a fan, but that's all you are ... a fan. If you are happy with that, fine; we need all the fans we can get. But we also need all the money we can get.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Lol, I understand. For me personally bowl season / practice reports don’t mean much when we are about to change the entire staff and team plan moving forward. I will definitely watch the game and want to win, but I’m not real worried about what’s going on in practice right now until CGC takes over the team and you start to see some new info.

Whether the bowl season / practice reportst mean much to you or not, they mean something to the players and coaches STILL with the team, and they mean a lot to the fans for whom the transition from one season to the next is the same whether the transition is made with the old coach or a new coach.

 

[GT_B]

Whether the bowl season / practice reportst mean much to you or not, they mean something to the players and coaches STILL with the team, and they mean a lot to the fans for whom the transition from one season to the next is the same whether the transition is made with the old coach or a new coach.

I’m not sure you interpreted that post the same as I was intending. I was replying about that I was saying it feels like the off-season to me. Not that I don’t care about the players or team. My mindset is anything we are doing outside of the basics (tackling / catching / throwing, etc) doesn’t translate to next year, because we are running an entirely different scheme on both sides of the ball. Some players might not even playing much next year that are playing a lot now, we just don’t know anything until spring ball next year.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I’m not sure you interpreted that post the same as I was intending. I was replying about that I was saying it feels like the off-season to me. Not that I don’t care about the players or team. My mindset is anything we are doing outside of the basics (tackling / catching / throwing, etc) doesn’t translate to next year, because we are running an entirely different scheme on both sides of the ball. Some players might not even playing much next year that are playing a lot now, we just don’t know anything until spring ball next year.

You are correct; that is not at all how I interpreted what you posted.

 

[MikeJacket1967]

The "Collins effect"?

 

[gthxxxx]

If you're not going to support GT football monetarily, then IMO you have no right to complain if things go south, nor to brag if they go through the ceiling. You are. of course, welcome as a fan, but that's all you are ... a fan. If you are happy with that, fine; we need all the fans we can get. But we also need all the money we can get.

I'm happy as just the role of a fan, but part of my intention was to also illustrate why perhaps the GT administration cannot entirely separate the athletics from the academics. GT gets paid magnitudes of order higher in dividends from contracts, donors, and influence on the academic/research side compared to its compatriots on the athletic side. While there are arguments for the pros of having a successful athletics program, there are still real and opportunity costs of overhead/infrastructure at a minimum despite (mostly) separate budgets on paper.

 

[gthxxxx]

Also, to add to above, maybe adding some fluff major or similar institutional change will allow GT football to improve without negatively impacting the academic/research side, but would you want to be the GT admin that risks screwing it up?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I'm happy as just the role of a fan, but part of my intention was to also illustrate why perhaps the GT administration cannot entirely separate the athletics from the academics. GT gets paid magnitudes of order higher in dividends from contracts, donors, and influence on the academic/research side compared to its compatriots on the athletic side. While there are arguments for the pros of having a successful athletics program, there are still real and opportunity costs of overhead/infrastructure at a minimum despite (mostly) separate budgets on paper.

What you posted shows exactly why the GT administration DOES separate athletics from the academics. The administration (i.e., the school) gets monies, as you said, magnitudes higher in dividends on the academic/research side than on the athletics side. The administration feels they don't need athletics, and actually, they don't. So they don't share any more than they have to, nor do they encourage donations be made to athletics. That's why all of us who truly love athletics at Tech absolutely need to GIVE !!!

 

[NtTomNtPhilGCollins]

Consistently winning the coastal, never losing to Duke, and beating uga 50% does in fact seem to be the bar many demand to meet. That would put us at a very high level, top 20 territory consistently. If not an elite level pretty darn close.

And not likely to happen if we don’t at least match our peers in backing / funding / spending.

Not necessarily true

CFB players love to play "close to home" for the most part

In every Era where Miami has had great teams they have never had high paid Coaching Staffs, Elite Facilities, nor have they ever been a "big money CFB Program" budget-wise

What they have had is nearby talent, and lots of it

GT is very similar to Miami in all those phases listed above, except GT has only 3 Majors that allows us to throw a "wide net" recruiting wise (BS-Business, BS-LMC, BS-HST)

We don't have to change funding, backing, or spending to elevate GT FB to nipping at the CFP on occasion

We simply have to recruit earlier and better and get a little lucky here and there

For anecdotal purposes-----in this 2019 Recruiting Class there were 39 HS players in GA that were rated 4* & 5* according to 247 composite rankings, CPJ (yeah him) offered 26 of those Recruits to come to GT

If CPJ offered them he obviously thought they could get accepted and graduate from GT

That 26 of 39 represents a .666 ratio, if you extrapolate that to the Top100 recruits in GA that means that 2/3 or 66 out of the Top100 HS FB players in Ga are indeed academic qualifiers for GT

I have always theorized that the academics excuse was way overblown by the CPJ fanboyz, and now CPJ's own offer list supports my theories

If 60 to 70 of the Top100 Recruits in GA are indeed academic qualifiers for GT, then Coach G has a good chance to really elevate this program without any "structural changes" to GT as an Institution, this also proves that CPJ's detractors were correct all along, he really was a terrible Recruiter and didn't get GT's fair share of the elite Recruits from GA HSs that did qualify for GT

My theory is that the "system is hurting our recruiting" people were probably correct all along

I'm excited because Coach G isn't letting any excuse keep from recruiting at the highest level that we can here at GT