The Changing Face of Football in America

[GoldZ]

Try telling 16-18 year olds what to do and see how far you get with that, Tell them not to smoke pot, or cigarettes, or drive cars too fast or get tattoos etc etc. Different societies decide differently at what age young people can make adult decisions. The age of consent for sex varies but is often 16 (or even younger in some places). I don't necessarily disagree with you, but society today has clearly moved past that point of view.

And not for the better....for them and for society. Norms taught when they are young matter. Society should be ashamed of itself, and no, I'm not Amish, and at 16-18 did most of what you listed, but less so than today because of taught norms. Street racing, hard drugs, gun fights instead of fist fights, unwed pregnancies, etc. etc. tell me the adults are failing the kids. Next thing you know, College football players will be union members...oh wait.

 

[Aanderson1839]

Sometimes I feel hypocritical when watching football. In some ways it's modern day gladiators just with volunteers and not literally fighting to the death. It is not a matter of IF someone will get hurt, its a question of how many and how badly. Both teams have full medical staffs with an ambulance on site when its needed. They have carts to take players to the locker room because it is common and expected that players will be hurt so badly they are not able to transport themselves. They have an injury tent on the sidelines.

I don't think you need studies to know that getting hit in the head repeatedly is not good for you, but there are some out there.

Here is one that showed measurable cognitive decline in linemen even if they did not suffer a concussion (they did return to normal after the season was over) - https://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/04/13/high-schoolconcussion I read another similar story a while ago (was not able to find it) where they did a test prior to, during, and at the end of the season and most linemen saw a marked decline on their test performance throughout the course of the season. Football was literally impairing their brains ability to function.

 

[gtchem05]

Sometimes I feel hypocritical when watching football. In some ways it's modern day gladiators just with volunteers and not literally fighting to the death. It is not a matter of IF someone will get hurt, its a question of how many and how badly. Both teams have full medical staffs with an ambulance on site when its needed. They have carts to take players to the locker room because it is common and expected that players will be hurt so badly they are not able to transport themselves. They have an injury tent on the sidelines.

I don't think you need studies to know that getting hit in the head repeatedly is not good for you, but there are some out there.

Here is one that showed measurable cognitive decline in linemen even if they did not suffer a concussion (they did return to normal after the season was over) - https://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/04/13/high-schoolconcussion I read another similar story a while ago (was not able to find it) where they did a test prior to, during, and at the end of the season and most linemen saw a marked decline on their test performance throughout the course of the season. Football was literally impairing their brains ability to function.

There was no non-football control group mentioned in the study in that SI article and the number of participants was really small. The only noteworthy conclusion that can be drawn from a study like that is that better studies need to be done.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Rugby is a contact sport. On any given "play" only one target is going to experience a collision with the exception of rucking and accidental collisions. You cannot "block" in rugby except in a ruck situation. A Scrum which is what the football line of scrimmage comes from only happens in certain situations and it is not a collision event you start by getting entangled and you push each other.

On the whole over an entire game of rugby you may take 2-3 big hits with an upwards of 10-15 if you are a full (equavelent to a QB).

Tackling isn't what causes higher CTE rates.
Blocking is. Epecially now that hands can be used. Now on every play you have massive head to head hits along the line of scrimmage by all the linemen. Your Running backs blockign typically use their heads too. And on any given play you have atleast 10 collisions happening at some point in the play. The tackle is not the issue.

As someone who played rugby for eleven years, with much of it on the front row, I must take exception to claiming a scrum is not a collision event. They've certainly changed many of the rules to reduce the space and keep the engagement much more controlled but it certainly feels like a collision when you've got 5 men behind you and 8 men in front crashing into you. But I do agree it is not a major source for concussions or head injuries. I'd also take exception to only 2-3 big hits a game but that's neither here nor there. Most of the collisions will take place at the rucks which are probably comparable to number of plays in football but fewer players involved at each occurrence.

Overall I agree, the lack of headgear and protection in rugby leads to tackling and play style that makes you very aware of protecting yourself as well as trying to win a ruck or tackle the ball carrier. In football it's a lot more of using your body as a missile and head as a weapon.

 

[jgtengineer]

As someone who played rugby for eleven years, with much of it on the front row, I must take exception to claiming a scrum is not a collision event. They've certainly changed many of the rules to reduce the space and keep the engagement much more controlled but it certainly feels like a collision when you've got 5 men behind you and 8 men in front crashing into you. But I do agree it is not a major source for concussions or head injuries. I'd also take exception to only 2-3 big hits a game but that's neither here nor there. Most of the collisions will take place at the rucks which are probably comparable to number of plays in football but fewer players involved at each occurrence.

Overall I agree, the lack of headgear and protection in rugby leads to tackling and play style that makes you very aware of protecting yourself as well as trying to win a ruck or tackle the ball carrier. In football it's a lot more of using your body as a missile and head as a weapon.

Yeah its hard to explain it but what i meant by collision event is like what happens in football. Also might be that when I played they had already started cutting down on the space to the point where we really weren't able to get up a lot of impact and it became more of a pressure and push.

2-3 big hits by football standards and they aren't with your head. Most of the time like you said its a ruck or a tackle where you come up on the losing side of it.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Yeah its hard to explain it but what i meant by collision event is like what happens in football. Also might be that when I played they had already started cutting down on the space to the point where we really weren't able to get up a lot of impact and it became more of a pressure and push.

2-3 big hits by football standards and they aren't with your head. Most of the time like you said its a ruck or a tackle where you come up on the losing side of it.

I hear you, I'm sure I'm picking the nits, it just hurt my front row soul to hear it called "not a collision". But I started playing when the cadence was simply Crouch, Hold, Engage rather than the Crouch, Bind, Set they have it as now and the impact was a bit greater back then.

 

[jgtengineer]

I hear you, I'm sure I'm picking the nits, it just hurt my front row soul to hear it called "not a collision". But I started playing when the cadence was simply Crouch, Hold, Engage rather than the Crouch, Bind, Set they have it as now and the impact was a bit greater back then.

yeah definitely I only discovered rugby in college and only played 3 years in college then i did some 7s after i graduated with a local team. The older guys often talked about how it had been "changed"

 

[g0lftime]

As someone who played rugby for eleven years, with much of it on the front row, I must take exception to claiming a scrum is not a collision event. They've certainly changed many of the rules to reduce the space and keep the engagement much more controlled but it certainly feels like a collision when you've got 5 men behind you and 8 men in front crashing into you. But I do agree it is not a major source for concussions or head injuries. I'd also take exception to only 2-3 big hits a game but that's neither here nor there. Most of the collisions will take place at the rucks which are probably comparable to number of plays in football but fewer players involved at each occurrence.

Overall I agree, the lack of headgear and protection in rugby leads to tackling and play style that makes you very aware of protecting yourself as well as trying to win a ruck or tackle the ball carrier. In football it's a lot more of using your body as a missile and head as a weapon.

Do you still have your ears?

 

[Lotta Booze]

Do you still have your ears?

Yes, of course I still have my ears, picture unrelated

 

[yoshiki2]

Wasn't there a big link to concussions in soccer too?

In soccer it’s recommended not to head the ball until they are 12 I think..

 

[gte447f]

In soccer it’s recommended not to head the ball until they are 12 I think..

Yes, it’s around age 12. My son plays soccer, and he moves up to the Under12 age group next season, and they will begin heading the ball.

I am apprehensive about heading in soccer and the likely effects on the brain, but the soccer community seems intentionally ignorant and misinformed to the point that it seems that they are blatantly ignoring the obvious out of fear that to do otherwise might result in changes to their precious game.

That change is also blatantly obvious. Simply remove headers from the game. To the uninitiated, like me, who didn’t grow up playing soccer or as a fan, it seems like an obvious change that needs to be made and it seems like no big deal that wouldn’t change the basic mechanics of the game or the beauty of the game. But, to diehard soccer fans, it would be sacrilege.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Yes, it’s around age 12. My son plays soccer, and he moves up to the Under12 age group next season, and they will begin heading the ball.

I am apprehensive about heading in soccer and the likely effects on the brain, but the soccer community seems intentionally ignorant and misinformed to the point that it seems that they are blatantly ignoring the obvious out of fear that to do otherwise might result in changes to their precious game.

That change is also blatantly obvious. Simply remove headers from the game. To the uninitiated, like me, who didn’t grow up playing soccer or as a fan, it seems like an obvious change that needs to be made and it seems like no big deal that wouldn’t change the basic mechanics of the game or the beauty of the game. But, to diehard soccer fans, it would be sacrilege.

I’m no neuroscientist but I wonder how you compare the two since circumstances are slightly different. CTE involves repeated jarring impacts, which, in the case of football linemen, can happen multiple times in a game. In soccer, even a forward or a striker can go multiple games without even having a chance to head butt a ball. To be clear, I’m not saying head butting is benign, it’s clearly dangerous, but unless someone is daily practicing head butts, the frequency of impact is much less than with football.

 

[yoshiki2]

Yes, it’s around age 12. My son plays soccer, and he moves up to the Under12 age group next season, and they will begin heading the ball.

I am apprehensive about heading in soccer and the likely effects on the brain, but the soccer community seems intentionally ignorant and misinformed to the point that it seems that they are blatantly ignoring the obvious out of fear that to do otherwise might result in changes to their precious game.

That change is also blatantly obvious. Simply remove headers from the game. To the uninitiated, like me, who didn’t grow up playing soccer or as a fan, it seems like an obvious change that needs to be made and it seems like no big deal that wouldn’t change the basic mechanics of the game or the beauty of the game. But, to diehard soccer fans, it would be sacrilege.

I’ve played soccer using my head since I can remember. I can understand that you are afraid but it’s mostly strikers, forwards who do that. I’ve played as a midfielder my whole life (or a goalkeeper) and during games I only had once chance to head the ball. Maybe it could be changed to u15? I’d be more worried about breaking a leg, though. I actually had to wear crutches for a while 🥹.

 

[TampaBuzz]

Yes, it’s around age 12. My son plays soccer, and he moves up to the Under12 age group next season, and they will begin heading the ball.

I am apprehensive about heading in soccer and the likely effects on the brain, but the soccer community seems intentionally ignorant and misinformed to the point that it seems that they are blatantly ignoring the obvious out of fear that to do otherwise might result in changes to their precious game.

That change is also blatantly obvious. Simply remove headers from the game. To the uninitiated, like me, who didn’t grow up playing soccer or as a fan, it seems like an obvious change that needs to be made and it seems like no big deal that wouldn’t change the basic mechanics of the game or the beauty of the game. But, to diehard soccer fans, it would be sacrilege.

I don't know....a well struck corner kick that is headed in by a tall attack player is a beautiful thing. That type of set play would disappear. Most of the head injuries IMO seen to occur in the mid-field when opposing players are both trying to head a ball and head each other instead. I would not be at all offended if that kind of play were disallowed.

 

[Techster]

Yes, of course I still have my ears, picture unrelated
View attachment 15369

As a person who has been practicing Judo since 12 yrs old, and jiu jitsu for the past 7 years...NEVER mess with anyone with cauliflower ears. Usually a sign that the person has been involved with a very physical or tough sport (wrestling, martial arts, rugby, etc). People should avoid physical confrontation at all cost...but be especially wary of those with cauliflower ears. That's a dead giveaway that you're going to bite off more than you can probably chew.

 

[g0lftime]

I’m no neuroscientist but I wonder how you compare the two since circumstances are slightly different. CTE involves repeated jarring impacts, which, in the case of football linemen, can happen multiple times in a game. In soccer, even a forward or a striker can go multiple games without even having a chance to head butt a ball. To be clear, I’m not saying head butting is benign, it’s clearly dangerous, but unless someone is daily practicing head butts, the frequency of impact is much less than with football.

Both my sons played soccer through HS and travel teams in NC. Both played on championship teams. The only problem either had was my oldest son butted heads with an opponent trying to head a shot at the goal mouth in college intramurals. He had to have stitches but no concussion evident. There were plenty of leg injuries and occasional ACL tears. Both played from the time they were 6 years old. Soccer is so much more popular in my area that two of the three high schools had to cancel FB seasons because not enough players to field teams.

 

[jgtengineer]

Both my sons played soccer through HS and travel teams in NC. Both played on championship teams. The only problem either had was my oldest son butted heads with an opponent trying to head a shot at the goal mouth in college intramurals. He had to have stitches but no concussion evident. There were plenty of leg injuries and occasional ACL tears. Both played from the time they were 6 years old. Soccer is so much more popular in my area that two of the three high schools had to cancel FB seasons because not enough players to field teams.

Honeslty the fact that CTE present in soccer players speaks more to mayeb it has more to do with constant rigorous activity levels as well as collisions. Some Strikers can run 6-7 kms a match.

 

[WraleighWreck]

My son played club soccer from 6 yo and high school soccer. Only head injuries I saw we head to head contact, usually two players going up for headers. Had a few of his teammates out for concussions over the years. I would agree that headers at midfield on a goal kick should be outlawed. My son played mid and he wouldn’t ever try to head a goal kick. I’m not sure you could take away headers on free or corner kicks though, that would probably eliminate 30 to 40 % of scoring as set pieces are a big part of the game.

 

[RamblinRed]

Both my sons played soccer through HS and travel teams in NC. Both played on championship teams. The only problem either had was my oldest son butted heads with an opponent trying to head a shot at the goal mouth in college intramurals. He had to have stitches but no concussion evident. There were plenty of leg injuries and occasional ACL tears. Both played from the time they were 6 years old. Soccer is so much more popular in my area that two of the three high schools had to cancel FB seasons because not enough players to field teams.

This is an important statement.

Research that has been done among popularity of sports by different generations shows that football is not as intensely followed in the youngest generations - particarly GenZ and to a lesser extent Millenials than previous generations.

Soccer (or football as the rest of the world would call it) is much more popular among those 2 generations than previous generations, basketball has also been able to make inroads in those generations. That doesn't even take into account e-sports - which is what my own Gen Z child is into. I started taking him to football and basketball games when he was 4-5 years old, but he really has no interest in either sport.

None of this means FB is all of a sudden going to disappear, but I do expect it to continue to change and over time, and it is likely to be less dominant than it is today for viewership.

 

[RamblinRed]

This topic overall does make me think of one of my favorite Thomas Jefferson quotes:

"Laws and Institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change with the change of cirumstances, Institutions must also advance with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

You should expect things to change. Rules, laws, institutions - all based on the advancements of men. The ever famous - "the only constant is change".

Whatever football was 30 years ago, is not what it is today. What it is today, is not what it will be in 30 years. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. Hopefully it is a good thing.