The Case For Georgia Tech And The Option Offense

[GlennW]

That is what someone who thinks a team wins or loses because of the QB would think. They have all eyes on them more than any one player, like the starting pitcher in baseball . . . yet in neither case is it adequate to the job of assessing the ability of that one player to judge them by wins and losses.

The only person in college football that I hold to a standard based almost solely on wins and losses is the head coach. I judge zero players that way. If for no other reason because at Tech they are authentically student-athletes, so even if I thought they deserved the blame for losses I would refrain from attributing it to them.

The difference is that the QB is the one who actually ON THE FIELD and touching the football on (virtually) EVERY Offensive play (EXECUTING the game play against the opponent; LEADING THE TEAM). You can have THE BEST Coach in the World, with THE BEST game plan for Saturday afternoon, but if you don't have the player on the field actually doing the job necessary to carry the team to a victory, when the teammates have the potential to win, then the issue is with the PERSONNEL, NOT THE COACH, and THAT'S what happened with these two QB's; Tevin COULDN'T win the close games, and Justin does.

 

[GTech63]

It is still a team sport and the ability to catch and block, or lack there of, can affect the outcome no matter who the QB may be. Admittedly JT5 breathes extra confidence into pressure situations which Tevin didn't do. Nesbitt did more so also but as others have said I don't think Tevin had the supporting cast around him that Nesbitt or JT5 had.

 

[croberts]

Yet JUSTIN led HIS team to a victory, and Tevin to a monumental DEFEAT. Thanks for proving my point.

I must be confused or dumb and blind. Tevin played really well in that game. I am sure JT probable would think less of his own performance.

 

[AE 87]

And yet @GlennW two POINTS that YOU seem unable to UNDERSTAND is that the success OF the team in terms of WINS and LOSSES (1) also involves THE defense and (2) the fact that one qb is BETTER does not mean the other QB is BAD.

Tevin was a good QB for us and our offense. That was my only point.

 

[croberts]

I am going to laugh some of this off and hit the sack. One sure thing about Tevin. He was a terrible defensive coordinator and allowed his opposition to read his signals half of the time. I think Tevin was fired in mid season.

 

[Boomergump]

I am going to laugh some of this off and hit the sack. One sure thing about Tevin. He was a terrible defensive coordinator and allowed his opposition to read his signals half of the time. I think Tevin was fired in mid season.

nuk nuk

 

[lv20gt]

Why? He led our offense to the #9 most efficient in ppd against BCS AQ opponents for two successive years. Do you have a rational basis for this opinion or is it just emotional?

What was Tevin great at? He wasn't a great runner, speed or power. He wasn't a great passer. He wasn't great under pressure, even as a senior. Hell I don't even think he was that great at making reads. Not bad, but certainly no option wizard. We don't have the luxury of talent surrounding the QB to allow for us to have a game manager at QB and that's what he was, which is fine for a back up, but not what we need in a starter.

His senior year we produced 1.4 ppd against VT and he made the critical mistake of trying to force a pass that led to the INT that basically sealed that game. People forget that following that VT had first and goal from the 1, but the defense rebuffed Logan Thomas 3 straight times forcing a FG. Yet it didn't mean anything because we got 0 points in OT allowing a FG to win rather than tie. The inefficiency of the offense was bad enough, but the INT is simply a play that a senior starting QB with as much experience as he had cannot make.

Against Miami - 36 points is fine, but we had a 17 point lead at one point, and a 14 point with the ball at one point. In this situation a senior QB needs to be able to put the game away with either long drives taking lots of time of the clock, not just a bit over 3 minutes, or preferably points. But we didn't. We punted 3 straight times, with only one semi-successful drive of just under 5 minutes. Then in OT on 4th and 1 he checks into a play, but doesn't inform the team. He gets stuffed and once again we get nothing in OT. Did the defense also play poorly? Yes. Did our offense have the chance to put the game away and not do so? Yes. Again, that mistake in OT is simply something a senior QB cannot do.

MTSU - 28 points against MTSU is simply bad.

BYU - 9 possession and 3 offensive points.

FSU - 1.5 ppd

UGA - 8 possessions and 3 points. before getting pulled.

USC - The team as a whole was under 2 ppd, and the scoring drives were a Lee drive, a 1 yard Washington drive set up by a big punt return, and a washington drive.

Simply looking at ppd doesn't tell the story of 2012. Does our defense deserve blame? Absolutely. Did Washington, as senior, play to a starter level. No. He didn't.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

What I like about JT is that last year he began to read the option play as well as Tevin. Granted, he did not read it particularly well at the beginning of the season, according to CPJ, but by the end of the season he was reading it as well as Tevin. That is quick development and that is why he has a much higher ceiling than Tevin.

But to completely dismiss the poor supporting cast that Tevin had, and the huge defensive break downs, as a factor in the outcomes of games baffles me. This past season JT played like a champion and led the team to victory on more than one occasion. But it helped that he also had a defense that took the ball away at key moments, as well as wide receivers who not only did not drop the ball (the way Tevin's receivers seemed to) but who also worked hard to get open when the quarterback needed a completion and who also blocked like demons when our runners needed to pick up an extra yard.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What I like about JT is that last year he began to read the option play as well as Tevin. Granted, he did not read it particularly well at the beginning of the season, according to CPJ, but by the end of the season he was reading it as well as Tevin. That is quick development and that is why he has a much higher ceiling than Tevin.

But to completely dismiss the poor supporting cast that Tevin had, and the huge defensive break downs, as a factor in the outcomes of games baffles me. This past season JT played like a champion and led the team to victory on more than one occasion. But it helped that he also had a defense that took the ball away at key moments, as well as wide receivers who not only did not drop the ball (the way Tevin's receivers seemed to) but who also worked hard to get open when the quarterback needed a completion and who also blocked like demons when our runners needed to pick up an extra yard.

Here, here.

And what would we have been left thinking about JT after the UGA game if it wasn't for the kick and pick? I was so angry at the refs when I saw JT beating himself up on the sidelines after that 2nd phantom fumble they called on him. I thought, great, UGA is going to once again beat Tech while being the lesser team and playing a worse game and on top of that the refs made it happen in such a way that the confidence of our young promising QB would be deeply shaken.

You can retort, well Justin scrambled and got out of bounds to put the team in a position to kick that FG. But I would point out that Justin was able to get that chance to scramble to make it a 53 yard FG . . . that is long by the way . . . first because of the return of UGA's awful squib kickoff. But secondly, Richt had to then call a timeout to accidentally save Tech from delaying the game and not even getting the kick off. Thirdly, Butker still had to actually make a 53 yarder, it is only the fact he made that which allows us to credit Thomas for getting just enough yardage. And that leads to my point: even Thomas, no matter how talented he may be, needed a team around him to get that win or avoid a loss.

It is okay to love a team and not just deify the QB.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

What was Tevin great at? He wasn't a great runner, speed or power. He wasn't a great passer. He wasn't great under pressure, even as a senior. Hell I don't even think he was that great at making reads. Not bad, but certainly no option wizard. We don't have the luxury of talent surrounding the QB to allow for us to have a game manager at QB and that's what he was, which is fine for a back up, but not what we need in a starter.

His senior year we produced 1.4 ppd against VT and he made the critical mistake of trying to force a pass that led to the INT that basically sealed that game. People forget that following that VT had first and goal from the 1, but the defense rebuffed Logan Thomas 3 straight times forcing a FG. Yet it didn't mean anything because we got 0 points in OT allowing a FG to win rather than tie. The inefficiency of the offense was bad enough, but the INT is simply a play that a senior starting QB with as much experience as he had cannot make.

Against Miami - 36 points is fine, but we had a 17 point lead at one point, and a 14 point with the ball at one point. In this situation a senior QB needs to be able to put the game away with either long drives taking lots of time of the clock, not just a bit over 3 minutes, or preferably points. But we didn't. We punted 3 straight times, with only one semi-successful drive of just under 5 minutes. Then in OT on 4th and 1 he checks into a play, but doesn't inform the team. He gets stuffed and once again we get nothing in OT. Did the defense also play poorly? Yes. Did our offense have the chance to put the game away and not do so? Yes. Again, that mistake in OT is simply something a senior QB cannot do.

MTSU - 28 points against MTSU is simply bad.

BYU - 9 possession and 3 offensive points.

FSU - 1.5 ppd

UGA - 8 possessions and 3 points. before getting pulled.

USC - The team as a whole was under 2 ppd, and the scoring drives were a Lee drive, a 1 yard Washington drive set up by a big punt return, and a washington drive.

Simply looking at ppd doesn't tell the story of 2012. Does our defense deserve blame? Absolutely. Did Washington, as senior, play to a starter level. No. He didn't.

I guess everybody's entitled to an opinion. I could just as easily cherry pick his most outstanding moments and stats but that wouldn't change your mind so I won't.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Here, here.

And what would we have been left thinking about JT after the UGA game if it wasn't for the kick and pick? I was so angry at the refs when I saw JT beating himself up on the sidelines after that 2nd phantom fumble they called on him. I thought, great, UGA is going to once again beat Tech while being the lesser team and playing a worse game and on top of that the refs made it happen in such a way that the confidence of our young promising QB would be deeply shaken.

You can retort, well Justin scrambled and got out of bounds to put the team in a position to kick that FG. But I would point out that Justin was able to get that chance to scramble to make it a 53 yard FG . . . that is long by the way . . . first because of the return of UGA's awful squib kickoff. But secondly, Richt had to then call a timeout to accidentally save Tech from delaying the game and not even getting the kick off. Thirdly, Butker still had to actually make a 53 yarder, it is only the fact he made that which allows us to credit Thomas for getting just enough yardage. And that leads to my point: even Thomas, no matter how talented he may be, needed a team around him to get that win or avoid a loss.

It is okay to love a team and not just deify the QB.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, but if Tech does not get the interception in over time, and if the quarterback was named Tevin instead of Justin, some on here might be tempted to blame the quarterback for the loss saying he should have put the game away earlier when he had the chance.

 

[deeeznutz]

I'd like to apologize for starting this unfortunate dissection of Tevin Washington's career. I really wasn't trying to get this debate going, but it just spiraled out of control. Long story short, Tevin Washington was a helluva GT QB, and now we're in the Justin Thomas era.

 

[AE 87]

What was Tevin great at? He wasn't a great runner, speed or power. He wasn't a great passer. He wasn't great under pressure, even as a senior. Hell I don't even think he was that great at making reads. Not bad, but certainly no option wizard. We don't have the luxury of talent surrounding the QB to allow for us to have a game manager at QB and that's what he was, which is fine for a back up, but not what we need in a starter.

His senior year we produced 1.4 ppd against VT and he made the critical mistake of trying to force a pass that led to the INT that basically sealed that game. People forget that following that VT had first and goal from the 1, but the defense rebuffed Logan Thomas 3 straight times forcing a FG. Yet it didn't mean anything because we got 0 points in OT allowing a FG to win rather than tie. The inefficiency of the offense was bad enough, but the INT is simply a play that a senior starting QB with as much experience as he had cannot make.

Against Miami - 36 points is fine, but we had a 17 point lead at one point, and a 14 point with the ball at one point. In this situation a senior QB needs to be able to put the game away with either long drives taking lots of time of the clock, not just a bit over 3 minutes, or preferably points. But we didn't. We punted 3 straight times, with only one semi-successful drive of just under 5 minutes. Then in OT on 4th and 1 he checks into a play, but doesn't inform the team. He gets stuffed and once again we get nothing in OT. Did the defense also play poorly? Yes. Did our offense have the chance to put the game away and not do so? Yes. Again, that mistake in OT is simply something a senior QB cannot do.

MTSU - 28 points against MTSU is simply bad.

BYU - 9 possession and 3 offensive points.

FSU - 1.5 ppd

UGA - 8 possessions and 3 points. before getting pulled.

USC - The team as a whole was under 2 ppd, and the scoring drives were a Lee drive, a 1 yard Washington drive set up by a big punt return, and a washington drive.

Simply looking at ppd doesn't tell the story of 2012. Does our defense deserve blame? Absolutely. Did Washington, as senior, play to a starter level. No. He didn't.

Okay. I get where you're coming from. Fwiw, I agree that just looking at ppd does not tell the story of 2012, especially if you only look at select games where we did not do as well. It should be noted that ppd stats, like the more familiar Scoring Offense (PPG) stats are more meaningful with more games because the quality of the competition begins to even out. Also, in 2012, we began introducing a lot more shotgun/pistol sets. We also began using Vad more. So, yeah, the story of 2012 is difficult to tell with stats.

Someone in a recent thread warned about the temptation for people to make stuff up when to support their case. I don't think you did that, but you did assert something misleading about the 2012 UGA when you said, "8 possessions and 3 points. before getting pulled." That was stated rhetorically well, but it's not true. Let's look at what happened in that game (according to ESPN data):
Drive 1: Tevin leads the team 84 yards in 9 plays to the UGA 20. Godhigh loses the fumble on the next play.
Drive 2: Tevin leads the team 54 yards in 12 plays to the UGA 21. FG.
Drive 3: Vad leads the team 26 yards in 10 plays; turnover on downs (UGA 42)
Drive 4: Vad leads the team 29 yads in 5 plays; interception (pass thrown from GT 47)
Drive 5: Tevin leads the team 56 yards in 12 plays to the UGA 19. Missed FG.
Halftime Score 28-3.
Drive 6: Tevin 3 plays -11 yds to GT 14. (3rd and 5, in pistol and ball is snapped over Tevin's head and Tevin goes back and falls on it 16 yds behind los)
Drive 7: Tevin 3 plays 5 yds to GT 20.
Drive 8: Tevin leads the team 51 yards in 9 plays to UGA 25, turnover on downs next play (score was 42-3)
Drive 9: Vad leads the team 48 yards in 7 plays, turnover on downs
Drive 10: Vad leads the team 71 yards in 6 plays, TD, 42-10
Drive 11: Vad leads the team 14 yards in 11 plays (there were 15 yards of penalty), turnover on downs.

FWIW, I look at the story of this game with respect to QB play differently from you.

I guess, someone else might look at JN vs Iowa at the end of 2009, and the games against KS and Clemson and WF as a Senior in 2010 and bring up his decision leading to the interception vs VPI that same year and conclude that he was not good enough for a GT starter. People can look at the same data and draw different conclusions, depending on what aspects they bias, especially when you look at particular games.

 

[lv20gt]

Well the team did have 8 drives and 3 points before him getting pulled. Anyways 6 drives and 3 points isn't that much better, nor even 6 points in 6 drives counting the missed FG. Even considering other players play, Washington didn't play particularly well that game.

Also, and this isn't just relevant to Washington or even just the QB spot in general, but lack of a home run threat at a position leads to drives taking more plays which is more opportunity for mistakes elsewhere. It's especially true at positions like QB and BBack that usually get a high number of carries. It's why I don't really like when people call for death marches. More plays is more opportunities for mistakes. I'd rather just score in as few plays as possible, but that's getting on a whole separate topic.

 

[JorgeJonas]

I'm more impressed with the rate statistics than the counting ones. We should be near the top of the country in rushing yards because we run more. However, when I see us near the top in scoring offense despite almost never running a HUNH offense it tells me the offense is humming. The points per drive statistic is equally impressive, as it removes the inherent bias in favor of the high tempo offenses. Either way, our offense is awesome, and I'm optimistic about it going forward.

Regarding Tevin, I think the difference Thomas provides is what kept us from having any true clunker games, Duke notwithstanding (a game with essentially six turnovers - the fumble and two picks, plus lining up offsides on a punt, PI on third down, and the 3rd and 25 conversion). Tevin was competent in our offense, but he simply didn't have the athleticism to change the game. Whatever, he fought like hell for this team, graduated, and conducted himself extremely well when we were all pining for Vad. You won't catch me saying anything bad about him.

 

[Whatllyahave]

IMHO the offense we run is only as good as the QB. We have seen what a mediocre QB can do. When the right guy is pulling the trigger it is a thing of beauty. That is why I am so concerned about the injury to Byerley. Looks like the guys behind him though potentially good aren't ready yet.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

I think most people see Navy football being a step or two below when CPJ was there. Unless Monken turns things around, that ship has sailed also. I do not see another candidate out there at this time, unfortunately.

I'm not sure why that perception would exist. Under CKN they have come within a cat's whisker of beating Ohio State and South Carolina, blew out Missouri in a bowl game and beat Notre Dame soundly twice. Joined a decent conference, might win it their first year, developed Heisman dark-horse QB's like Ricky Dobbs and Keenan Reynolds. Navy was rebuilding under CPJ, he took them as far as he could while he was there and the program has climbed to a whole new level under Coach Kenny.

 

[GaTech4ever]

It's why I don't really like when people call for death marches. More plays is more opportunities for mistakes. I'd rather just score in as few plays as possible, but that's getting on a whole separate topic.

I think when people say death marches, it's assumed there would be no drive killing mistakes. But every fan would prefer more playmakers at every position. If our D could consistently get off the field, then who wouldn't want to have plays that result in more yardage? There are certain times when a death march is more beneficial (like at the end of UNC), but when you have a competent D then I don't know who would argue they'd rather have less yards per play. Maybe my head is in the sand.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

I think when people say death marches,you're assumed there would be no drive killing mistakes. But every fan would prefer more playmakers at every position. If our D could consistently get off the field, then who wouldn't want to have plays that result in more yardage? There are certain times when a death march is more beneficial (like at the end of UNC), but when you have a competent D then I don't know who would argue they'd rather have less yards per play. Maybe my head is in the sand.

If you shorten the game you simplify it. Its like chess. Any Master will tell you if you have a material advantage, exchange pieces. Limit the chances for complexity.

If I'm ahead 21-17 and have a 9-minute scoring drive that runs deep into the 4th quarter, that is far, far more advantageous than scoring fast, all the usual arguments about ball control & fatigue aside it simplifies the game and reduces the opponent's chances. Think GT vs Miami last year. If the Jackets scored twice on long TD passes to go up by 11 early in the 3rd quarter, anything could happen. Instead they took the game completely away from the Canes.

 

[Minawreck]

I'm not sure why that perception would exist. Under CKN they have come within a cat's whisker of beating Ohio State and South Carolina, blew out Missouri in a bowl game and beat Notre Dame soundly twice. Joined a decent conference, might win it their first year, developed Heisman dark-horse QB's like Ricky Dobbs and Keenan Reynolds. Navy was rebuilding under CPJ, he took them as far as he could while he was there and the program has climbed to a whole new level under Coach Kenny.

They've taken a step back the last two seasons in my opinion. Moral victories aren't happy news anymore in Annapolis. They oddly play up or down to their opponent it seems.