The 4-2-5: How Does It Work?

Andewa

Jolly Good Fellow
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259
I've learned so much about how our offense works from Longestday's videos. If you haven't seen them, you are really missing out. While I know what each player on our offense is supposed to do on most of the plays, I don't know what each player on our defense is supposed to do. I'd like to have a thread discussing how our 4-2-5 is supposed to work. Please post any info you have on player assignments/read keys or any relevant articles/interviews.

From my brief research, I have learned:
-Run defense is simpler. Each person in the front six is assigned to defend a specific gap. No LB's have to worry about dropping into pass coverage.
-Safeties read the receivers when deciding whether to play the pass or the run.


What other advantages/disadvantages does the 4-2-5 offer? Feel free to correct me.
 

Boomergump

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The 4-2-5 makes you smaller. That much is for certain. We have played small as a result. I am not really sold on this being the best option for us right now. If we were stopping the run, then fine.
 

ATL1

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It's a nickel package. Against Pitt however GT played a lot of 4-3. I even say some 3-4 on 3rd down. Nothing helped.
 

chewybaka

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909
The 4-2-5 makes you smaller. That much is for certain. We have played small as a result. I am not really sold on this being the best option for us right now. If we were stopping the run, then fine.
Please explain "make you smaller"... I do not understand...
 

Ugasux

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
35
Pretty sure it means you pull a big physical linebacker for a more mobile saftey type who can cover backs out of the backfield. It's used more for spread teams who throw the ball around. We played mostly 4-3 against Pitt.
 

33jacket

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boy everyone gets caught up in the personnel to define a defense and really that is not a big deal. Whether a 4-2-5 or a 4-3 you align against the offense's set. If you have a 4-2 personnel in, and the offense lines up in 21 or 12 personnel, that 5th db, typically a nickel back who plays inside and is a bit more physical than a normal db, will drop down into the box in the same spot a 4-3 linebacker would be, and the defense is played identically whether a 4-3 or 4-2. You will have the same coverages. The same assignments etc. The difference being you have a smaller body in the box, than a 4-3. But its the same defense.

Plus to a 4-2 are simply teams today seem to always be in 11 10 or 01 personnel. There is always 3 WR. Having a lb cover that slot wr can be tough for him. The down side is if you run out of a 3wr set, in 11 personnel specifically, a 4-2 DB trying to take the place of a LB gets eaten up. Bigtime. so this is the issue. Against a run team, like Pitt, you would see more 4-3 since we wanted bigger bodies out there.

IMO, teams that exploit the 4-2 personnel choice the most are teams like clemson, duke, UGA, and FSU. These teams run a TON of 11 and 20 personnel. They are 3 wr sets, that have a power run game off it. It makes it hard to predict what they are going to do. They power run in 11 or 20 personnel, and you have your 4-2 people in you get eaten up. They run alot of QB power plays off it, counters and traps and we don't handle it well.

One reason why we don't handle it well is our front 6 or 7 has very little presnap movement. Our DL never stems, We never or rarely line up in one look and shift changing the blocking look for the OL to mess with them. We just stand there.

The best defenses exploit weaknesses in the OL blocking schemes. Whether run blocking or pass blocking. Good DCs see OL tendencies and weaknesses and create specific blitz and shift packages to exploit that. You attack the line scheme. Not just rush 5 blindly. Or 4. Or simply blitz a dumb obvious AGap blitz. You create confusion by presnap angle changes, moves from i alignment to head up or outer. You see a guard who struggles with a odd front and a end t twist with a blitzing OLB while the end backs into zone and you attack him. You exploit him until the offense rolls the TE or RB to help. And when the offense does that you mimic that look, don't zone blitz and on the opposite side of the line (now that the RB is helping on the other side) you overload blitz or fire cats all day.

You need to be multiple in your pressure packages.

So I will stop here. And simply say. I have yet to see anything that resembles this since Wommack to be honest. We gave him 2 years, but he did do this....not sure he would have been a good DC here. I am just saying scheme wise he did this and no one else since has. Groh typically had his packages but were very man up and fit oriented, taking 2. The Guy Now, eh doesn't really do much more than very basics. Cover 2. Man free on the back, with head up and an occasional S blitz that is usually late, OLB or MLB A gap fire...thats about it. In a 3-4 he may rush one of the OLB too.

I have yet to see a DC purposely create packages to attack an offense blocking scheme purposely. We seem to just call our plays, which now are almost telegraphic obvious and hope. Again, we have maybe one of the most basic defensive schemes i have seen. More shockingly, is we have one that is so basic with a bunch of seniors and juniors. Its one thing for them to be freshman and soph. You know what, I just need to stop for now. Ugh. Hurts me in the head.
 
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awbuzz

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... For those like me that were 99.99999% lost on the 10, 11, 20, etc. personnel -

http://footballguys.com/10pasquino_11.php

upload_2015-10-21_7-57-45.png
 

GTHOSCHTON

Jolly Good Fellow
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4-2-5,... 4-3-4,.... 5-2-4,....6-1-4.... its all the same if you play passive defense.....or do not follow your keys which puts you out of position...reading your keys and getting to your spot or fit is so important if your late its an arm tackle and a possible big gainer.... pursuit cuts down the huge plays....and when your first to the ball carrier hang on helps on the way!!!!!!!!!! and personal pride is huge be a great tackler it doesnt have to be pretty its just needs to get the job done!!
 

33jacket

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Georgia
GT runs a 30. or 3-0. That doesn't mean triple option. We run a 30 set. Pretty rare nowadays

however, they technically line up in a 12 set. its 30 personnel in a 12 alignment. In fact, some DC's treat our alignments as 12 sets. or double TE single back....they even call the AB the TE so the team can translate easily to what they typically learn. Its really pertinent when the playside AB blocks, or in a passing set. The AB becomes a seam TE.
 

BainbridgeJacket

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GT runs a 30. or 3-0. That doesn't mean triple option. We run a 30 set. Pretty rare nowadays

however, they technically line up in a 12 set. its 30 personnel in a 12 alignment. In fact, some DC's treat our alignments as 12 sets. or double TE single back....they even call the AB the TE so the team can translate easily to what they typically learn. Its really pertinent when the playside AB blocks, or in a passing set. The AB becomes a seam TE.

So what you're getting at is our offense is a 30 personnel in a 12 alignment that snaps the ball in from a 21 or 11 depending on the presnap motion unless we send an AB to the slot, then we're 30 in a 11 motioning to a 20 or 10. Easy enough.

Back on our defense, may I venture a guess that you were coached by Tenuta at some point. The only difference I'm aware of play wise between a 4-2-5 and 43 personnel is the simplification of gap control and blitz "lanes". Simplifying the defense simplifies the other teams OC job too. If we were more sound fundamentally, I'm not sure it would matter.
 

33jacket

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So what you're getting at is our offense is a 30 personnel in a 12 alignment that snaps the ball in from a 21 or 11 depending on the presnap motion unless we send an AB to the slot, then we're 30 in a 11 motioning to a 20 or 10. Easy enough.

Back on our defense, may I venture a guess that you were coached by Tenuta at some point. The only difference I'm aware of play wise between a 4-2-5 and 43 personnel is the simplification of gap control and blitz "lanes". Simplifying the defense simplifies the other teams OC job too. If we were more sound fundamentally, I'm not sure it would matter.

Not much difference between a 4-2 and 4-3 when the nickel back walks up. There is a difference when he stays in nickel.....and if a olb widens in a 4-3 not quite the same as a nickel in a 4-2 as he is likely shading the los to a degree.

No never played for tenuta
 
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